Post: #16

Marc Faber predicting financial doom, how unusual

Post: #17

Ka$hKilla  Wrote:

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work. Nobody gets paid, but everybody gets what they need in exchange, food, clothing, etc. You might say nobody will do the work, but i think the work is minimal enough where you'll hardly even notice it. Most of the work thats being done now is in direct support of the monetary system. For a more advanced version, see the Venus project

I might understand what you're saying...all for one, one for all; if efficiency ran our towns then we would have a better life.

My problem with idealism is that most of the people I'm surrounded by are not capable of thinking this way. Then the work falls on the shoulders of those who understand. Capitalism must have started out in much the same way before eroding into a cesspool of greed. Theft is a real thing...people want, people take. Entitlement is a b*tch, and some folks feel the need to do more. So shouldn't they get more? And then what about the lazy people who just want more without wanting to work more? Won't they just steal the shit that the hardworking man has worked for? The problem is a human problem, my friends.

Post: #18

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Ka$hKilla  Wrote:

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work. Nobody gets paid, but everybody gets what they need in exchange, food, clothing, etc. You might say nobody will do the work, but i think the work is minimal enough where you'll hardly even notice it. Most of the work thats being done now is in direct support of the monetary system. For a more advanced version, see the Venus project

I might understand what you're saying...all for one, one for all; if efficiency ran our towns then we would have a better life.

My problem with idealism is that most of the people I'm surrounded by are not capable of thinking this way. Then the work falls on the shoulders of those who understand. Capitalism must have started out in much the same way before eroding into a cesspool of greed. Theft is a real thing...people want, people take. Entitlement is a b*tch, and some folks feel the need to do more. So shouldn't they get more? And then what about the lazy people who just want more without wanting to work more? Won't they just steal the shit that the hardworking man has worked for? The problem is a human problem, my friends.

Spot on.

Post: #19

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Ka$hKilla  Wrote:

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work. Nobody gets paid, but everybody gets what they need in exchange, food, clothing, etc. You might say nobody will do the work, but i think the work is minimal enough where you'll hardly even notice it. Most of the work thats being done now is in direct support of the monetary system. For a more advanced version, see the Venus project

I might understand what you're saying...all for one, one for all; if efficiency ran our towns then we would have a better life.

My problem with idealism is that most of the people I'm surrounded by are not capable of thinking this way. Then the work falls on the shoulders of those who understand. Capitalism must have started out in much the same way before eroding into a cesspool of greed. Theft is a real thing...people want, people take. Entitlement is a b*tch, and some folks feel the need to do more. So shouldn't they get more? And then what about the lazy people who just want more without wanting to work more? Won't they just steal the shit that the hardworking man has worked for? The problem is a human problem, my friends.

So, its time for a reset?

Back to indigenous peoples style of justice?

Voting people off the "Island" ?

I'll go with the venus project, it at least still has a concept of higher civilization....

Post: #20

Ka$hKilla  Wrote:

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work.

Well, let's see. A town of 21,000 is going to need about 4,200,000 gallons of water a day delivered to the people to cover their washing, drinking, cooking and agricultural needs (and that's assuming xeriscape-style farming). These farms will probably need about a hundred full-time people to plant, weed, harvest, and deliver the food to whatever you consider as taking the place of the store. If you're looking for a communal kitchen, that's probably about 20 full-time food preparers and servers.

And, of course, to cook and/or refrigerate the food, you're going to need at least a hundred folks to generate, store, deliver energy to the people and maintain and upgrade the infrastructure.

It will also need about 12 medical professionals (MDs, RNs, a dentist, and maybe a full-time X-ray technician) to provide basic clinic health (foprget about major surgery or sophisticated diagnostic tools).

Oh, and drugs. I guess we can bag antibiotics, steroids, or any kind of modern pharmaceuticals and go back to using feverfew and anise root and letting ten percent of women giving birth die of childbed fever or septicaemia in the process. (Given the lack of analgesics, here's hoping you don't need any dental work!)

Now it seems to me that I've hit on about one fifth of the absolutely necessary things that need to be done to support a town of 21000 people -- and not a single one of them is in support (direct or otherwise) of the "monetary system"; they are in support of the survival of the people living there.

Would you like me to go on?

Post: #21

LoP Guest  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Ka$hKilla  Wrote:

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work. Nobody gets paid, but everybody gets what they need in exchange, food, clothing, etc. You might say nobody will do the work, but i think the work is minimal enough where you'll hardly even notice it. Most of the work thats being done now is in direct support of the monetary system. For a more advanced version, see the Venus project

I might understand what you're saying...all for one, one for all; if efficiency ran our towns then we would have a better life.

My problem with idealism is that most of the people I'm surrounded by are not capable of thinking this way. Then the work falls on the shoulders of those who understand. Capitalism must have started out in much the same way before eroding into a cesspool of greed. Theft is a real thing...people want, people take. Entitlement is a b*tch, and some folks feel the need to do more. So shouldn't they get more? And then what about the lazy people who just want more without wanting to work more? Won't they just steal the shit that the hardworking man has worked for? The problem is a human problem, my friends.

So, its time for a reset?

Back to indigenous peoples style of justice?

Voting people off the "Island" ?

I'll go with the venus project, it at least still has a concept of higher civilization....

http://him.uk.msn.com/in-the-know/articl...=153387088

Have fun on the commune, comrade.
I'll stay free as is possible given the climate thanks.

Post: #22

LoP Guest  Wrote:

So, its time for a reset?

Back to indigenous peoples style of justice?

Voting people off the "Island" ?

I'll go with the venus project, it at least still has a concept of higher civilization....

I"m not sure what the solution is, but I'm sure its not God or money.
The Venus Project is, at the very least, a progressive idea.

Post: #23

Zero Point  Wrote:

Have fun on the commune, comrade.
I'll stay free as is possible given the climate thanks.

Ditto.
And whatever happens shall happen.

Post: #24

More and more people will start to take a step back, I think, in years to come, and society will become nothing more than an ant farm to them. They will live for themselves and for their own dreams. Others will still be chasing their tales trying to validate their existence with things...they will never change.

Post: #25

Zero Point  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

I might understand what you're saying...all for one, one for all; if efficiency ran our towns then we would have a better life.

My problem with idealism is that most of the people I'm surrounded by are not capable of thinking this way. Then the work falls on the shoulders of those who understand. Capitalism must have started out in much the same way before eroding into a cesspool of greed. Theft is a real thing...people want, people take. Entitlement is a b*tch, and some folks feel the need to do more. So shouldn't they get more? And then what about the lazy people who just want more without wanting to work more? Won't they just steal the shit that the hardworking man has worked for? The problem is a human problem, my friends.

So, its time for a reset?

Back to indigenous peoples style of justice?

Voting people off the "Island" ?

I'll go with the venus project, it at least still has a concept of higher civilization....

http://him.uk.msn.com/in-the-know/articl...=153387088

Have fun on the commune, comrade.
I'll stay free as is possible given the climate thanks.

Communism is a false argument, I don't view an almost 100yr old guys ideas as the next Lenin,....that is laughable.

Have you actually read about what he has done with his time on earth?

Post: #26

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Zero Point  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

So, its time for a reset?

Back to indigenous peoples style of justice?

Voting people off the "Island" ?

I'll go with the venus project, it at least still has a concept of higher civilization....

http://him.uk.msn.com/in-the-know/articl...=153387088

Have fun on the commune, comrade.
I'll stay free as is possible given the climate thanks.

Communism is a false argument, I don't view an almost 100yr old guys ideas as the next Lenin,....that is laughable.

Have you actually read about what he has done with his time on earth?

Nope. Not a word. Honestly though, I've heard it all before when it comes to utopian societies.
They always fail to take humanity into account and therefore fail utterly.
That most certainly includes, but is not restricted to, communism.

Post: #27

Zero Point  Wrote:

Ka$hKilla  Wrote:

We can only hope that 100% of wealth is destroyed and the government finally has to get rid of the concept of currency- and wealth. Wealth is a made up concept directly tied to currency

OK, I give up. You tell me. If one guy has a steak and another guy wants it but only has a loaf of bread and the guy with the steak doesn't want bread, how does the transaction occur?

Easy.
But easier said than done. Please open your mind and let a little of this in. And no, it's not communism either...it's life as many dream it should be.

It would take a generation or two but I think the transformation can be done. The very wealthy can stay right where they are with all of their possessions and their huge homes, yachts, planes, land, etc... They won't be able to manage on their own though so they will eventually need to join the rest of humanity.

It's more a frame of mind and how you think of money. If both guys want a steak they just go to the "store" and get what they need...free of charge. Because the farmers, herders and butchers brought their produce to the store for free and you can't buy anything in the store because cash (money) is now outlawed. The people who supply the goods and services do so because they love to. They love it so much they strive to do it better every day and they do it for free. They all do it for free because everything they need is totally free of charge....everything.

The only people on a pedestal of any kind will be the people who choose to do the really nasty work. They can be compensated with things they might like. Like front row seats to whatever events they want or first in line for whatever event for however long they work that particular job. Or perhaps it should be mandatory for all people to, at some point, be assigned to the crappy jobs for a year or two so that the garbage always gets picked up and the sewer systems run and the waste-water treatment plants operate, etc...

This stuff can be worked out.

The people running the store are there because they love to do it.
The people producing the goods love to produce those particular goods.
The people transporting the goods really enjoy the job because it's no longer "work"...it's a great joy and a lot of fun.

You're housing is provided free by your fellow tradesmen who love to build big, beautiful aesthetically pleasing homes.

You're utilities are free (because there's no such thing as money)
Take your vacations for free. (you might have to get in line to go where you want to go unless you work a job that nobody else really wants to do)

In other words, everything is free of charge. The down side is maybe you have to wait for certain things a little longer. Like entertainment and vacation destinations. Once people get used to the idea that you can have practically anything you want (within a sane reason) and live in a absolutely gorgeous home, drive a beautiful car and live a wonderful life doing what you love to do there will be no reason to steal. Things will get done the right way the first time because shortcuts are no longer needed...the profit motive is gone.

Sure there will still be all the emotional turmoils to deal with. There will no doubt be jealousy, envy, hate, etc...leading to murder and even war. But we've always had that. We have that now.

Imagine choosing a profession or two and then going to the best school to learn...for free.
The teachers all teach for free and they love it because that's the profession they chose.
You can choose a different profession at any time.
Everything you need to live a wonderful, meaningful and leisurely life is provided to you and everyone...free of charge.

And that, my friend, is how that transaction occurs.

You asked...

Post: #28

Forbidden Truth  Wrote:

And that, my friend, is how that transaction occurs.

You asked...

Acknowledged.
I can't seem to change many minds, maybe you will have better luck.

Post: #29

Old Whatshisname  Wrote:

Ka$hKilla  Wrote:

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work.

Well, let's see. A town of 21,000 is going to need about 4,200,000 gallons of water a day delivered to the people to cover their washing, drinking, cooking and agricultural needs (and that's assuming xeriscape-style farming). These farms will probably need about a hundred full-time people to plant, weed, harvest, and deliver the food to whatever you consider as taking the place of the store. If you're looking for a communal kitchen, that's probably about 20 full-time food preparers and servers.

And, of course, to cook and/or refrigerate the food, you're going to need at least a hundred folks to generate, store, deliver energy to the people and maintain and upgrade the infrastructure.

It will also need about 12 medical professionals (MDs, RNs, a dentist, and maybe a full-time X-ray technician) to provide basic clinic health (foprget about major surgery or sophisticated diagnostic tools).

Oh, and drugs. I guess we can bag antibiotics, steroids, or any kind of modern pharmaceuticals and go back to using feverfew and anise root and letting ten percent of women giving birth die of childbed fever or septicaemia in the process. (Given the lack of analgesics, here's hoping you don't need any dental work!)

Now it seems to me that I've hit on about one fifth of the absolutely necessary things that need to be done to support a town of 21000 people -- and not a single one of them is in support (direct or otherwise) of the "monetary system"; they are in support of the survival of the people living there.

Would you like me to go on?

yes. by all means

cut $ some slack, he's just a little 11 year old boy who don't know shit.

Post: #30

Old Whatshisname  Wrote:

Ka$hKilla  Wrote:

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work.

Well, let's see. A town of 21,000 is going to need about 4,200,000 gallons of water a day delivered to the people to cover their washing, drinking, cooking and agricultural needs (and that's assuming xeriscape-style farming). These farms will probably need about a hundred full-time people to plant, weed, harvest, and deliver the food to whatever you consider as taking the place of the store. If you're looking for a communal kitchen, that's probably about 20 full-time food preparers and servers.

And, of course, to cook and/or refrigerate the food, you're going to need at least a hundred folks to generate, store, deliver energy to the people and maintain and upgrade the infrastructure.

It will also need about 12 medical professionals (MDs, RNs, a dentist, and maybe a full-time X-ray technician) to provide basic clinic health (foprget about major surgery or sophisticated diagnostic tools).

Oh, and drugs. I guess we can bag antibiotics, steroids, or any kind of modern pharmaceuticals and go back to using feverfew and anise root and letting ten percent of women giving birth die of childbed fever or septicaemia in the process. (Given the lack of analgesics, here's hoping you don't need any dental work!)

Now it seems to me that I've hit on about one fifth of the absolutely necessary things that need to be done to support a town of 21000 people -- and not a single one of them is in support (direct or otherwise) of the "monetary system"; they are in support of the survival of the people living there.

Would you like me to go on?

Yes, please do go on. You seem to enjoy the ignorance you claim to fight.
Please keep your mind closed to anything other than money and wealth. Please climb your ladder to success no matter how many fingers you crush. Just so YOU get where YOU want to be.
If you want to be a doctor then by all means become a doctor...free of charge. (see my earlier post)