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**Forbidden Truth**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Forbidden Truth Wrote:
And that, my friend, is how that transaction occurs.

You asked...

Acknowledged.
I can't seem to change many minds, maybe you will have better luck.

We have been brainwashed to believe that there is only one way to success. Work hard, save and invest. Watch your money grow!

Of course this way has failed miserably. They refer to this Greatest Depression as a "Deep Recession". They won't admit to the failure. they can't even say the words.

This will take time. I just hope we don't run out of it.

**Forbidden Truth**

What....was it something I said?

Where'd everybody go?

**Forbidden Truth**

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 65998 05-04-2012 06:31 PM

Zero Point Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
Have you actually read about what he has done with his time on earth?

Nope. Not a word. Honestly though, I've heard it all before when it comes to utopian societies.
They always fail to take humanity into account and therefore fail utterly.
That most certainly includes, but is not restricted to, communism.

You usually post better than this, calling someone communist w/o reading his work.

Its not about Utopia, and it sure wont work like one if it ever happens (highly doubtful). Its an idea that people have to support to make work, communism is forcing people to live an ideal.

You should read it, it wont make you a communist, I promise..... chuckle

**mrneutron**

Old Whatshisname Wrote:

I wonder if:

(1) anyone on this board is concerned with that prediction;
(2) if so, if they are doing anything about it; and
(3) what it is they might be doing.

Put your money into hard assets. Gold, Silver, land etc.

**Old Whatshisname**

Forbidden Truth Wrote:

Yes, please do go on. You seem to enjoy the ignorance you claim to fight.
Please keep your mind closed to anything other than money and wealth. Please climb your ladder to success no matter how many fingers you crush. Just so YOU get where YOU want to be.

I'm afraid you look at life as a zero-sum game, i.e., if I have wealth, it's because I steal wealth from you. If I have happiness, it's because I steal happiness from you.

But that's not the way it is. If I choose to gain wealth, it doesn't hurt you. If you cannot have your system, it's not becasue of me; it's because you can't find enough people to agree with you that eliminating money is a good thing.

You are certainly free to find out whether or not your ideal is a good one, but first you will have to find a bunch of people (people? perhaps "angels" would be more apropos) who would (1) espouse what you do; and (2) actually carry it out.

Good luck on that!

By the way, if you want to know how a communal system -- pure communism, as it were) works out, I suggest you read one of the best SF stories around: The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. LeGuin. It is very sympathetic to your ideals, and won both the Hugo and Nebula awards as the best novel of the year.

And, of course, there's Francisco d'Anconia's speech from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, entitled Money: the root of all good. Sometimes it helps to know what others think about money -- and why.

**Little Green Apples**

I don't understand why some are jumping for joy at the prospect of wealthy losing 50% of their net worth. If there is an economic collapse, there is no fine print that says only if you have a net worth of xxxx will you lose money , this will affect everyone.

So, if you have a measly $100.00 to your name, you effectively will only have $50.00 to your name.

**Kanaima**

Double edged razor

if they loose that much we will starve

Hiding

**Forbidden Truth**

Old Whatshisname Wrote:

Forbidden Truth Wrote:
Yes, please do go on. You seem to enjoy the ignorance you claim to fight.
Please keep your mind closed to anything other than money and wealth. Please climb your ladder to success no matter how many fingers you crush. Just so YOU get where YOU want to be.

I'm afraid you look at life as a zero-sum game, i.e., if I have wealth, it's because I steal wealth from you. If I have happiness, it's because I steal happiness from you.

But that's not the way it is. If I choose to gain wealth, it doesn't hurt you. If you cannot have your system, it's not becasue of me; it's because you can't find enough people to agree with you that eliminating money is a good thing.

You are certainly free to find out whether or not your ideal is a good one, but first you will have to find a bunch of people (people? perhaps "angels" would be more apropos) who would (1) espouse what you do; and (2) actually carry it out.

Good luck on that!

By the way, if you want to know how a communal system -- pure communism, as it were) works out, I suggest you read one of the best SF stories around: The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. LeGuin. It is very sympathetic to your ideals, and won both the Hugo and Nebula awards as the best novel of the year.

And, of course, there's Francisco d'Anconia's speech from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, entitled Money: the root of all good. Sometimes it helps to know what others think about money -- and why.

Sorry, I had to step out. No one was replying so...

"But that's not the way it is. If I choose to gain wealth, it doesn't hurt you."

If you have great wealth like say a billion or so and you do nothing with it but sit around and count it then you would be hurting everyone including yourself. I understand that we have a system that is in place but I did not put it there. Someone did put it there though. We all have to deal with the stress and we all have to have money to live. That IMO is a rotten shame.

The system is starting to make me sick...literally. I'm in construction and our sector has been hit hard. Down 65%.
When I go to the super wealthy houses and see what they have done with there money it makes me even sicker. Do you really need a professional indoor basketball court right down to the custom wood flooring and paint and a 17,000 square foot house for a family of four? Really? Do you really need 5 dishwashers, 220 windows, a home theater that seats 80 and 3" thick x 4' wide doors with stone surrounds on both sides of every doorway including the closets? Really? Must you use imported flooring from a demolished cathedral in Belgium? Do you actually need a heliport? Or do you suppose that you could maybe get by without it? The lights are always on in the basketball court...it's HUGE. There's NEVER anyone in there playing basketball though. And this is their summer home.

The system is wrong. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Again this is NOT communism...at all. This is a world without money. I know it's hard to grasp because it took me awhile to get it. But think it through. It actually works and levels the playing field while enabling everyone to live rich and meaningful lives without worrying where the mortgage payment or the rent will come from.

Money is the ROOT of all evil.

[Image: CBCB_4FA47749.jpg]

Think about it.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 94457 05-05-2012 02:59 AM

Ka$hKilla Wrote:

Zero Point Wrote:
Ka$hKilla Wrote:
We can only hope that 100% of wealth is destroyed and the government finally has to get rid of the concept of currency- and wealth. Wealth is a made up concept directly tied to currency

OK, I give up. You tell me. If one guy has a steak and another guy wants it but only has a loaf of bread and the guy with the steak doesn't want bread, how does the transaction occur?

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work. Nobody gets paid, but everybody gets what they need in exchange, food, clothing, etc. You might say nobody will do the work, but i think the work is minimal enough where you'll hardly even notice it. Most of the work thats being done now is in direct support of the monetary system. For a more advanced version, see the Venus project

forget about it...you fantasy scenario will not work.

for many reasons...

1 of which is simple human character....that people generally want to do as less work as possible and get the most possible.

with your scenario you would have to many people concerned if they worked a extra hour longer then another person, and only got the same kickbacks.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 90665 05-05-2012 03:00 AM

Zero Point Wrote:

Ka$hKilla Wrote:
We can only hope that 100% of wealth is destroyed and the government finally has to get rid of the concept of currency- and wealth. Wealth is a made up concept directly tied to currency

OK, I give up. You tell me. If one guy has a steak and another guy wants it but only has a loaf of bread and the guy with the steak doesn't want bread, how does the transaction occur?

IT DONT LIFE SUCKS THEN YOU DIE DEAL!

**Forbidden Truth**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Ka$hKilla Wrote:
Zero Point Wrote:
OK, I give up. You tell me. If one guy has a steak and another guy wants it but only has a loaf of bread and the guy with the steak doesn't want bread, how does the transaction occur?

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work. Nobody gets paid, but everybody gets what they need in exchange, food, clothing, etc. You might say nobody will do the work, but i think the work is minimal enough where you'll hardly even notice it. Most of the work thats being done now is in direct support of the monetary system. For a more advanced version, see the Venus project

forget about it...you fantasy scenario will not work.

for many reasons...

1 of which is simple human character....that people generally want to do as less work as possible and get the most possible.

with your scenario you would have to many people concerned if they worked a extra hour longer then another person, and only got the same kickbacks.

Wrong.

Most people will want to do their jobs to perfection and will want to do it right the first time. They will finally be able to take pride in their work. Like artist they will do there best because there's no competition. Just a striving to get it right, a striving for perfection. Remember...no body gets a nickel...not a cent. Everything is FREE. No charge for anything because there's...wait for it...no money. There's no such thing as "extra hours". There's just doing a job you chose to do because you love doing it. Schooling...free. Housing...free. Electricity...free. Food, entertainment, you name it free.

John Lennon was on the right track. Hmmm, that makes me wonder...

**Old Whatshisname** · (This post was last modified: 05-05-2012 06:39 PM by Old Whatshisname.)

Forbidden Truth Wrote:

Money is the ROOT of all evil.
Think about it.

I think it’s kind of ironic that you say “Money is the ROOT of all evil.” And your very next sentence talks about how $30 Billion (in money, of course) would eradicate world hunger for a year.

And by the way, your quote in incorrect. 1 Timothy 6:10 (KJV) says: “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”

**Forbidden Truth**

Old Whatshisname Wrote:

Forbidden Truth Wrote:
Money is the ROOT of all evil.
Think about it.
I think it’s kind of ironic that you say “Money is the ROOT of all evil.” And your very next sentence talks about how $30 Billion (in money, of course) would eradicate world hunger for a year.

And by the way, your quote in incorrect. 1 Timothy 6:10 (KJV) says: “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”

Semantics.
Most people with a lot of money love it and by hoarding it deprive the people that actually need it. They won't be eradicating hunger anytime soon because of their love of money.

**Twatwaffle** lop guest User ID: 94741 05-05-2012 08:15 PM

Forbidden Truth Wrote:

Everything is FREE....

Schooling...free. Housing...free. Electricity...free. Food, entertainment, you name it free.

FT, perhaps in our next software upgrade. In this iteration of humanity, I'm afraid it's a non-starter.

The evidence is all around us. Those that are provided the most for "FREE" today (via .gov subsidies) have to date not engaged in the world to use their talents and gifts to provide goods and services to others for "FREE" in a meaningful, impactful and sustained way.

If to those that are provided things for "FREE" are not actively performing in accord with your vision today, what evidence is there to suggest that everyone will willingly accept the proposition?