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**Forbidden Truth**

Twatwaffle Wrote:

Forbidden Truth Wrote:
Everything is FREE....

Schooling...free. Housing...free. Electricity...free. Food, entertainment, you name it free.

FT, perhaps in our next software upgrade. In this iteration of humanity, I'm afraid it's a non-starter.

The evidence is all around us. Those that are provided the most for "FREE" today (via .gov subsidies) have to date not engaged in the world to use their talents and gifts to provide goods and services to others for "FREE" in a meaningful, impactful and sustained way.

If to those that are provided things for "FREE" are not actively performing in accord with your vision today, what evidence is there to suggest that everyone will willingly accept the proposition?

A way of life without money becomes normal just as life with money is normal for us. It's not that they're free so much as they are just the norm. There's no payment for anything. There's just communication between us and management of resources.

If there's no money to exchange it's just a way of life. It took me a few weeks of pondering to see that it's actually doable.

Of course I don't believe this will happen anytime soon. It's just that I can see it and it makes sense to me. It's not a utopia either. There would be the usual human emotions and illnesses to deal with along with the petty stuff too.

**Old Whatshisname** · (This post was last modified: 05-06-2012 02:57 PM by Old Whatshisname.)

Forbidden Truth Wrote:

Old Whatshisname Wrote:
Forbidden Truth Wrote:
Money is the ROOT of all evil.
Think about it.
I think it’s kind of ironic that you say “Money is the ROOT of all evil.” And your very next sentence talks about how $30 Billion (in money, of course) would eradicate world hunger for a year.

And by the way, your quote in incorrect. 1 Timothy 6:10 (KJV) says: “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”

Semantics.
Most people with a lot of money love it and by hoarding it deprive the people that actually need it.

Ah, so you admit that some people actually "need money" after all? chuckle

And what makes you think that we "hoard" money? My wife and I make a good wage (although it'll be diminished a bit when I retire next month), and we don't "hoard" any of it.

Sure, we keep a portion of our money in the bank, but it's not really "in the bank" at all; the credit union takes our money and the money that we use to pay our mortgage and car loan and loans it out to other people who use it to buy things for themselves which provide more money for the people who make and sell those things, whether they're farmers, shopkeepers, people that work in the Kawasaki factory, and Ghod-knows-who else.

Or, those other people who borrow "our" money from the credit union might use it as a loan to start a small business and hire other people to work for them!

Ironically, the fact is that the credit union uses our money as "insurance" that they will be able to cover all their loans, even if those loans exceed the amount on their books, which actually creates more wealth. (I say "ironically" because this fractional reserve is one of the bêtes noir which frightens so many people who don't understand economics.)

The money we don't save goes the the farmers who grow our food (who in turn spend it on supplies), the people who fix my bike, the people who make and sell our clothes, the folks who run the various charities we support, and so on.

No, it is not "semantics".

P.s.: I see that you're quite fond of quoting one of my favorite laissez-faire capitalists. When Dr. Paul says "Peace and commerce and friendship are much better than going to war", how do you suppose he defines "commerce"?

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 91319 05-06-2012 02:57 PM

quick, try and find some sympthy for billionaires losing millions

cause i am all out of any who f*cking cares for them f*cks

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 63124 05-06-2012 04:18 PM

Ka$hKilla Wrote:

Zero Point Wrote:
Ka$hKilla Wrote:
We can only hope that 100% of wealth is destroyed and the government finally has to get rid of the concept of currency- and wealth. Wealth is a made up concept directly tied to currency

OK, I give up. You tell me. If one guy has a steak and another guy wants it but only has a loaf of bread and the guy with the steak doesn't want bread, how does the transaction occur?

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work. Nobody gets paid, but everybody gets what they need in exchange, food, clothing, etc. You might say nobody will do the work, but i think the work is minimal enough where you'll hardly even notice it. Most of the work thats being done now is in direct support of the monetary system. For a more advanced version, see the Venus project

You obviously haven't run into any 3rd generation welfare families. They are too lazy to pick up a stick and hit a snake if it was coiled to bite. Never underestimate human laziness. There are too many people that their only means of existence is other peoples generousity. Could be a good thing though, work or starve.

**SlowLoris**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Ka$hKilla Wrote:
Zero Point Wrote:
OK, I give up. You tell me. If one guy has a steak and another guy wants it but only has a loaf of bread and the guy with the steak doesn't want bread, how does the transaction occur?

I think you miss the point. Im not talking about using barter. That is basically the same as money.

Think about a small town of 21,000 people as one big company, to say it in capitalist terms. The basic work that has to be done to keep the place running is done, but thats a very minimal work. Nobody gets paid, but everybody gets what they need in exchange, food, clothing, etc. You might say nobody will do the work, but i think the work is minimal enough where you'll hardly even notice it. Most of the work thats being done now is in direct support of the monetary system. For a more advanced version, see the Venus project

You obviously haven't run into any 3rd generation welfare families. They are too lazy to pick up a stick and hit a snake if it was coiled to bite. Never underestimate human laziness. There are too many people that their only means of existence is other peoples generousity. Could be a good thing though, work or starve.

^^THIS^^^

Utopia only works inside your brain. Imagination and fantasy are great, but you can not live there.

In Utopia everyone wants to live the good life, live in a fancy house, drive a fast car and wear flashy clothes. In Utopia everyone wants to be on perpetual vacation.

In Utopia there is no one to repair your leaking roof, repair your broken car or wash your stinking clothes. In Utopia there is no one to take out the trash, process the sewage or dispose of your dead body when your life is done.

**Twatwaffle** lop guest User ID: 93039 05-06-2012 05:04 PM

Forbidden Truth Wrote:

A way of life without money becomes normal just as life with money is normal for us. It's not that they're free so much as they are just the norm. There's no payment for anything. There's just communication between us and management of resources.

I appreciate the sentiment, but it won't take long for people to demonstrate the timeless and seemingly universal human strategy of exploiting a victim's trust.

And, as we can visibly and plainly see from the current system, once trust is lost, it is nary impossible to regain.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 38238 05-06-2012 05:40 PM

Here is an easy way to demonstrate why this won't work.

Why do you go to the grocery store to buy produce instead of out to the farm to pick it? Because it is easier and more convenient. Our ancestors didn't climb trees to get to the fruit at the top, they took the low hanging stuff.

Humans are programmed to seek the mist benefit from the least expense of energy. This is why we crave fat and sugar and not vegetables. Our drive for food is a good illustration. Even though we know vegetables are better for us we still eat candy.

So when everything is free, man's natural tendency us to not produce.