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**SuzieQ** lop guest User ID: 46209 04-17-2012 04:06 AM

Go to this site and start reading. Click on right side of page where it says "Health Effects".

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/bone/index.aspx

**LOPster Jesus**

Well maybe in a court of law that argument might hold up for a specific case. but the fact of the matter is there are enough negative effects known and documented that flouride is all bad and it's all bullshit. If you want to quibble over the numbers then fine but a toxic substance is a toxic substance and the gradient of effect typically will correspond to the level of dilution. It is highly diluted in water, so it kills microbes and braincells all of which are too small to see therefore you know no difference by this evidence. Go drink a glass of 100% flouride and see how you feel. Oh wait you're dead? Sorry never mind chuckle

GreenGirl Wrote:

Ragequit?

All I'm saying is that in order to use numbers and say "Deaths caused by:" it has to be evidenced on autopsy. Well... flouride doesn't really show evidence, does it? Therefore, it can be "probable" that flouride played a role in the death, but it can not be listed as such an autopsy report.

Which makes the numbers a bit hard to show, doesn't it?

**GreenGirl**

kettlnaut Wrote:

Well maybe in a court of law that argument might hold up for a specific case. but the fact of the matter is there are enough negative effects known and documented that flouride is all bad and it's all bullshit. If you want to quibble over the numbers then fine but a toxic substance is a toxic substance and the gradient of effect typically will correspond to the level of dilution. It is highly diluted in water, so it kills microbes and braincells all of which are too small to see therefore you know no difference by this evidence. Go drink a glass of 100% flouride and see how you feel. Oh wait you're dead? Sorry never mind
GreenGirl Wrote:
Ragequit?

All I'm saying is that in order to use numbers and say "Deaths caused by:" it has to be evidenced on autopsy. Well... flouride doesn't really show evidence, does it? Therefore, it can be "probable" that flouride played a role in the death, but it can not be listed as such an autopsy report.

Which makes the numbers a bit hard to show, doesn't it?

You're arguing the same point I am. In chat, Rick was saying how he couldn't find one death contributed to flouride and I was simply explaining how that's because it can't be shown on autopsy. You can show there is a link between flouride and death, the same way you can show there is a link between tobacco and death but to show that death is caused by something, it has to be evidenced on autopsy.

**LOPster Jesus**

GreenGirl Wrote:

You're arguing the same point I am. In chat, Rick was saying how he couldn't find one death contributed to flouride and I was simply explaining how that's because it can't be shown on autopsy. You can show there is a link between flouride and death, the same way you can show there is a link between tobacco and death but to show that death is caused by something, it has to be evidenced on autopsy.

LOL sorry my bad the jist I got was that just because the 'recorded' numbers don't substantiate it that the harmfulness of flouride was just paranoia. I rescind any criticisms that don't support your conclusion and apologize for a hasty conclusion on my part Heartflowers

**GreenGirl**

kettlnaut Wrote:

GreenGirl Wrote:
You're arguing the same point I am. In chat, Rick was saying how he couldn't find one death contributed to flouride and I was simply explaining how that's because it can't be shown on autopsy. You can show there is a link between flouride and death, the same way you can show there is a link between tobacco and death but to show that death is caused by something, it has to be evidenced on autopsy.
LOL sorry my bad the jist I got was that just because the 'recorded' numbers don't substantiate it that the harmfulness of flouride was just paranoia. I rescind any criticisms that don't support your conclusion and apologize for a hasty conclusion on my part

No biggie. Heartflowers

**LOPster Jesus**

GreenGirl Wrote:

No biggie.

Well I'm glad you have a capacity for forgiveness, as that is well important to being a decent human being. I just get all pissed when I think people are spreading disinfo, bad enough the people we are supposed to believe are out and out liars who always deceive anyone they can. But when real people deceive each other, that is just a travesty, It's like watching the last light in this world go out. I just can't abide by it! Well I don't have to tell you, you obviously get it. You just set me straight instead insulting my grandmother or some such ridiculousness. Now if I can just break myself of that habit I might start getting through to people chuckle

**Janus**

Malonate and fluoride effects on metabolism and contraction of electrically stimulated heart strips
Leslie I. Rice 1 and David A. Berman 1
1 Department of Pharmacology, School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California

The effect of malonate and fluoride on the oxidation of C14-labeled substrates by electrically stimulated rat heart strips was investigated in an apparatus which permitted simultaneous recording of oxygen consumption and contractile activity. Malonate stimulated the force of contraction when glucose was the substrate, but not in the presence of pyruvate. Malonate had no significant effect on the rate of oxidation of glucose-1-C14, glucose-6-C14 or pyruvate-2-C14, indicating that its effect on contraction was not related to a) stimulation of glucose metabolism, b) inhibition of the Kreb's cycle, or c) stimulation of the phosphogluconate pathway. Malonate-2-C14 was oxidized by the ventricle strips, and the possibility exists that utilization of malonate as a substrate may account, at least in part, for its stimulation of contraction. The stimulation of contraction by fluoride was accompanied by significant alterations in metabolism. The oxidation of glucose and acetate was inhibited, whereas pyruvate oxidation was stimulated; these findings were interpreted in terms of known actions of fluoride on enzyme systems.

**Janus**

Vanadate and fluoride effects on Na+-K+-Cl- cotransport in squid giant axon

A. A. Altamirano,
G. E. Breitwieser, and
J. M. Russell

+ Author Affiliations

Department of Physiology and Biophysics, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston 77550.

Abstract

The effects of vanadate and fluoride on the Na+-K+-Cl- cotransporter of the squid giant axon were assessed. In axons not treated with these agents, intracellular dialysis with ATP-depleting fluids caused bumetanide-inhibitable 36Cl influx to fall with a half time of approximately 16 min. In the presence of either 40 microM vanadate or 5 mM fluoride, the decay of bumetanide-inhibitable 36Cl influx was significantly slowed; half time for vanadate-treated axons is 45 min and for fluoride-treated axons is 37 min. These agents are not exerting their effects on Na+-K+-Cl- cotransport by influencing the rate of ATP depletion of the axon, since they had no effect on the ATP hydrolysis rate of an optic ganglia homogenate. We therefore suggest that these data support the hypothesis that Na+-K+-Cl- cotransport in squid axons is regulated by a phosphorylation-dephosphorylation mechanism and that vanadate and fluoride reduce the rate of dephosphorylation by inhibiting a protein phosphatase.

**Janus** · (This post was last modified: 04-17-2012 05:29 AM by Janus.)

Possible effects of long term exposure (6 months) to sodium fluoride (NaF) through drinking water on the morphology and biochemistry of myocardial tissue in second generation adult male rats were investigated. Wistar strain female and male rats were reared until the second generation of rats obtained, during which they were given 1, 10, 50 and 100 mg/L NaF in drinking water. Of the second generation, 28 male rats were divided into four groups and had the same treatment. All the second generation rats were sacrificed and autopsied at the end of the 6 months. In the samples of myocardial tissues, the levels of serum fluoride and the activities of principal antioxidant enzymes were determined, and a histopathological examination was conducted. Significant histopathological changes were found in the myocardial tissue of rats treated with 50 and 100 mg/L NaF. These were myocardial cell necrosis, extensive cytoplasmic vacuole formation, nucleus dissolution in myosits, swollen and clumped myocardial fibers, fibrillolysis, interstitial oedema, small hemorrhagic areas and hyperaemic vessels. Additionally, the increased activities of superoxide dismutase (SOD), glutathione peroxidase (GSH–Px), catalase (CAT) and thiobarbituric acid–reactive substance (TBARS) levels were observed in the myocardial tissues of rats treated with 10 and 50 mg/L NaF. On the other hand, the activities of SOD, GSH–Px, and CAT decreased, but the TBARS levels increased in the myocardial tissues of rats treated with 100 mg/L. The present results revealed that prolonged ingestion of fluoride through drinking water, particularly with high doses, induced significant histopathological and biochemical changes leading to myocardial tissue damage.

Ekrem Cicek
Suleyman Demirel University, Medical School, Dept. of Pharmacology, Isparta, Turkey

Gulsen Aydin
Suleyman Demirel University, Medical School, Dept. of Pathology, Isparta, Turkey

Mehmet Akdogan
Suleyman Demirel University, Medical School, Dept. of Biochemistry and Clinical Biochemistry, Isparta, Turkey

Huseyin Okutan, M.D.
Suleyman Demirel University, Medical School, Dept. of Cardiovascular Surgery, 6 Mart Ataturk C. Istiklal M. Oztunc A., No. 1 D: 4 32050, Isparta, Turkey; [email protected]; [email protected]

**LOPster Jesus**

Right, but that does not fit into the ramifications of the premise stated so therefore all of your information is invalidated right? Riiiiight yeah3

**RickRollD** · (This post was last modified: 04-17-2012 08:04 PM by RickRollD.)

SuzieQ Wrote:

RickRollD Wrote:
SuzieQ Wrote:
YOU said it was not harmful, over and over, in chat.

You're nothing but a wise ass punk who thinks he knows it all. Get over yourself and grow up. I rescind my offer of a truce, which you so childishly ignored.

Your telling ME to get over MYSELF when you come to my thread and cry?
You write false info and try to start drama when you have heard me say fluoride harms people, mass amounts yes, my tap water NO.

Get over YOURSELF suzy, i have pointed out facts you still ignore, or maybe you are so hard headed that arguing with me about what i said in chat will distract people from the actual truth of this topic.

I dont want your truce when you constantly bash my knowledge, you think because im 21 i dont know everything you know, how pathetic.

Tell me why you are not on a crusade to ban tobacco?
Kills 100,000+ more people a year, and your worried about fluoride?

Your KNOWLEDGE? My God, you are bi-polar or something. Get a grip, boy!

Suz once again you attack me for bringing up the facts, take your salty sad ass the f*ck out of my thread, you fail, f*ck off.
[Image: 25DA_4F8DB09D.gif]

**SuzieQ** lop guest User ID: 46209 04-18-2012 04:10 AM

RickRollD Wrote:

SuzieQ Wrote:
RickRollD Wrote:
Your telling ME to get over MYSELF when you come to my thread and cry?
You write false info and try to start drama when you have heard me say fluoride harms people, mass amounts yes, my tap water NO.

Get over YOURSELF suzy, i have pointed out facts you still ignore, or maybe you are so hard headed that arguing with me about what i said in chat will distract people from the actual truth of this topic.

I dont want your truce when you constantly bash my knowledge, you think because im 21 i dont know everything you know, how pathetic.

Tell me why you are not on a crusade to ban tobacco?
Kills 100,000+ more people a year, and your worried about fluoride?

Your KNOWLEDGE? My God, you are bi-polar or something. Get a grip, boy!

Suz once again you attack me for bringing up the facts, take your salty sad ass the f*ck out of my thread, you fail, f*ck off.

Damn, you are a pathetic.

Jerry1