Post: #46

Scribe to Elijah  Wrote:

Shakey1  Wrote:

Scribe to Elijah  Wrote:

According to Revelation 11:6, a time soon to come, these two men will have the power that they once had in the days of their empowerment as recounted in the O.T., namely, Elijah, having control over the rain; and Moses, having power over the waters to turn them to blood.

During the time of the great tribulation, the spirit of these two prophets will again be apparent in two men chosen by Almighty God who will given to be in the holy city (Jerusalem) for 42 months, Revelation 11:1-13, at which time their power will be greatly increased as we see in verses 5-6, KJV. Their power will be given them through the anointing of the Lord. Zechariah 4:14.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TwoOliveTrees/

I'm not a literal subscriber to much that is in the Bible, but I do believe that the two witnesses will be two dudes (not a chakra representation, or another metaphysical allegory), and the Moses, Elijah incarnations make sense (not 100% sold on them making the waters turn blood, etc., however).

Who knows for sure? Not me

The only thing we've got to go on is the Bible and the Holy Spirit. We know His Word must be fulfilled for there is no higher authority for truth than that of Almighty God.

maybe
I've seen some might huge egos think they're bigger than creation

seems to me that the earth is just a tiny dot in the big scheme of things, so two humans who would represent themselves in this roll have every possibility of being groomed into those positions these days. Smells like a fake already. So wondering what the purpose would be and whose pocketbook the whole scenario would enhance, we find a few more answers.

The "secrets" that these "revelations" speak of are not of flesh and blood IMHO, for in such a vessel there is inherent failure. Remember this was all written when minds were easier to manipulate. Game on.

Post: #47

Scribe to Elijah  Wrote:

Axx  Wrote:

The two witnesses/candlesticks were fulfilled in 1789 during the French Revolution and following events.

To understand this and other chapters, when it was/is, we must first understand a Bible truth: day-year principle

The 42 months or 1260 days was mentioned twice telling us when this was - following the 1260 days.

When was this?

The prophecy is filled with symbolism, thus the prophetic time given is also symbolic day=year or 1260 years of dark age holy roman empire ending at the French Revolution.

The French Revolution was atheistic (spiritually Sodom & Egypt) they banned the Bible (two witnesses/candlesticks). After this these two witnesses stood on their feet and went to the whole world.

Watch Walter Veith's video: The Beast from the Bottomless Pit

This beast from the pit is the Illuminati NWO and important to understand endtime events most today fail to grasp all distracted by Israel and Christian-Zionism.

Be careful whom you follow. The Word of God has all the truth you need.

Walter Veith is a Seventh Day Adventist who follows Ellen G. White's teachings. She has a giant Masonic occult obelisk parked on her grave. She was closely associated with Freemasons, and was married to a Freemason. Freemasons, whether knowingly or not, follow Lucifer or the Devil.

While that may be true what he says in this video is confirmed with the Bible. We learn from teachers down thru the generations and confirm all things with the Bible.

The 1260 year-day principle predates Adventism.

Post: #48

sackcloth, blue jeans, whats the difference?

Post: #49

Also, Scribe to Elijah, Christian-Zionism comes from the Devil by way of the Jesuits. And that's what all this future two witnesses business is, part of CZ.

It's no theory CZ came from the Jesuits, you may read about it right on wikipedia (i.e. Futurism) or numerous other places. Most all schools are infected with it.

Incidentally since you bring it up, I have a web blog exposing the errors of Adventism. The Two Witnesses is not one of them. The errors dont come in until chapter 13 the earth beast which replaces the sea beast. They claim the earth beast is the USA - yadda yadda - when actually it was/is the NWO. Thus the masonic founders of Adventism were protecting their NWO.

There is still a great deal of truth in SDA, such as who the sea beast is, and the correct Sabbath; and most of them are creation supporters, just in error on these foundational issues. The videos posted are both historicists, one SDA the other Pentecostal. I'm a member of neither, or any other. I dont believe we need denominations today. They are certainly all corrupt, as you say; and I agree. Still, at times we can learn from videos from any denomination, depending. The two videos posted are correct re Rev chapters 9, 10 & 11.

I also posted scripture proving the thing was fulfilled, but you glossed right over that looking for something to cling to your now discredited dogma.

Post: #50

I've wondered who the two witnesses would be. The Scriptures tell us "it is appointed to men to DIE ONCE, and after that, the judgment.

We know Enoch was taken alive up into heaven. (Genesis). We know that John the Baptist was the Elijah (taken up in a chariot), who was to come, and was beheaded. Then we have John, the beloved disciple of Jesus.

John 21:21, When Peter, seeing John, Peter asked Jesus, "Lord, and what shall this man do? 22 Jesus said to him, "So I will have him to remain till I come. What is that to you?"

So, we have two men who didn't die, but both shall die as the two witnesses. ONCE to die.

Two lampstands could mean one from the OT and one from the NT, each confirming the Word of God by their testimony.

That's how I see it. Guess we'll know when they appear in Jeruselem.

Post: #51

BJ  Wrote:

I've wondered who the two witnesses would be. The Scriptures tell us "it is appointed to men to DIE ONCE, and after that, the judgment.

We know Enoch was taken alive up into heaven. (Genesis). We know that John the Baptist was the Elijah (taken up in a chariot), who was to come, and was beheaded. Then we have John, the beloved disciple of Jesus.

John 21:21, When Peter, seeing John, Peter asked Jesus, "Lord, and what shall this man do? 22 Jesus said to him, "So I will have him to remain till I come. What is that to you?"

So, we have two men who didn't die, but both shall die as the two witnesses. ONCE to die.

Two lampstands could mean one from the OT and one from the NT, each confirming the Word of God by their testimony.

That's how I see it. Guess we'll know when they appear in Jeruselem.

and yet
you're on a UFO CONSPIRACY forum and you've never read the speculation about Elijah being hauled off in a UFO?

and by the way it's Jerusalem

Post: #52

Pi  Wrote:

BJ  Wrote:

I've wondered who the two witnesses would be. The Scriptures tell us "it is appointed to men to DIE ONCE, and after that, the judgment.

We know Enoch was taken alive up into heaven. (Genesis). We know that John the Baptist was the Elijah (taken up in a chariot), who was to come, and was beheaded. Then we have John, the beloved disciple of Jesus.

John 21:21, When Peter, seeing John, Peter asked Jesus, "Lord, and what shall this man do? 22 Jesus said to him, "So I will have him to remain till I come. What is that to you?"

So, we have two men who didn't die, but both shall die as the two witnesses. ONCE to die.

Two lampstands could mean one from the OT and one from the NT, each confirming the Word of God by their testimony.

That's how I see it. Guess we'll know when they appear in Jeruselem.

and yet
you're on a UFO CONSPIRACY forum and you've never read the speculation about Elijah being hauled off in a UFO?

and by the way it's Jerusalem

I wrote that Elijah was taken up in a chariot. Sorry, I didn't describe it as firy. Thanks for the spelling correction. The light ws shining on the screen and couldn't see the mistake. That happens sometimes.

Did you have anything you'd like to add?

Post: #53

The two annointed ones of ZECH 4:14 and olive
branches/trees of REV 11:4 are Enoch and Elijah.

Here is why:

The death of Enoch and Elijah are, of course, not recorded in
the Bible, but the death and burial of Moses surely is....

DEUT 34:5-6 "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in
the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6 And he
buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against
Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day."

If it is "appointed for man once to die, and then the judgment",
then Moses cannot possibly be one of the two witnesses.

But still, many believers mistakenly believe that the two witnesses
will be Elijah and Moses, as they both appeared to Christ at the
Mount of Transfiguration.

They mistakenly believe this Mt. of Transfiguration appearance of
Moses to be Moses - AFTER HIS DEATH - in his resurrected body.

But this is not the case, and believing this is to
be confused right along with the Devil....

Take a look here at Jude verse 9: "Yet Michael the archangel,
when contending with the devil he disputed about the body
of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation,
but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

Most theologians have no idea what this verse means.

Why would the Devil dispute about the body of Moses?

Because Moses appeared to Christ (with Elijah) prior to
Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension; and at that time,
the body of Moses would have belonged to the Devil, as Christ
had not yet been crucified to fulfill the "bond" on Moses and
redeem him from the grave.

But, the Devil...I guess he never stopped to think that
God transported the LIVING Moses through TIME, from
the ancient past, to meet up with Elijah and Christ.

And although this event is not recorded in the Old Testament, this probably happened one of the times that Moses (still living), had disappeared up to the mountain to speak with the Burning Bush.

So it appears that Moses is the first documented time-traveler!

Why two witnesses? DEUT 17:6 and 19:5 clearly state that it
takes TWO WITNESSES to establish a matter, especially when
someone is facing charges that could lead to their DEATH.

Now....

The two lampstands are churches as stated in REV 1:20 - "and the
seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

These lampstands/churches represent two groups of qualified believers.

What qualifies them as TRUE believers, and who is looking for them?

REV 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and
went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There you have it. Who keeps the commandments of God and
has the testimony of Jesus Christ? The TRUE Messianic Jews
and Christians who align with "my servant (Christ) whom I have chosen."

Was this not prophesied by Isaiah?

ISA 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant
whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and
understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed,
neither shall there be after me."

It is really pretty simple when we let the Bible interpret the Bible.

Oh. BTW. About a week ago or so, someone posted on the
"mistakes" in the Bible, pointing to the genealogy listed in
Matthew, referring to the missing generation. Yes, there is
a generation missing from that passage, and it is certainly
no mistake....and here is why....

Above, we saw the dragon "wroth with the woman", and he
goes off to "make war with her seed". The woman is Israel
who brought forth the child (Immanuel-Christ with us), and
the remnant of her seed, is the missing generation from
Matthew 1, as prophesied by David in the psalms.

PSALM 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall
be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

So you see, there is no "missing generation" nor mistake in Matthew.

It simply represents the last generation of this Earth age; the seed
of TRUE Messianic Jews and Christians - with whom the dragon seeks
to make war.

I hope this helps.

Post: #54

LoP Guest  Wrote:

The two annointed ones of ZECH 4:14 and olive
branches/trees of REV 11:4 are Enoch and Elijah.
I hope this helps.

That's not what it says. Zech 4 & 5 are specifically about the anointed WORD OF GOD - the Bible.

Zech.4:3 "And two olive trees by it, one on the right side of the bowl, and the other on the left side thereof. So I answered and spoke to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? Then the angel that talked with me answered and said to me, Know you not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then he answered and spoke to me, saying, This is the word of the LORD (...) Then answered I, and said to him, What are these two olive trees on the right side of the candlestick and on the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said to him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Know you not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth. Then I turned, and lifted up my eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll."

Post: #55

Axx  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

The two annointed ones of ZECH 4:14 and olive
branches/trees of REV 11:4 are Enoch and Elijah.
I hope this helps.

That's not what it says. Zech 4 & 5 are specifically about the anointed WORD OF GOD - the Bible.

Zech.4:3 "And two olive trees by it, one on the right side of the bowl, and the other on the left side thereof. So I answered and spoke to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? Then the angel that talked with me answered and said to me, Know you not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then he answered and spoke to me, saying, This is the word of the LORD (...) Then answered I, and said to him, What are these two olive trees on the right side of the candlestick and on the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said to him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Know you not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth. Then I turned, and lifted up my eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll."

I do not think it is a coincidence that the next chapter, 5 is about Iraq (Shinar) and the flying roll is the dimentions of the destroyed porchway of the solomons temple.
My interpretation: The woman is the whore of Babylon mentioned in Revelation. The curse was to be placed upon Iraq but would be upon the whole world! Remember that 42 countries and their proxys went to illegal war against Shinar (Iraq) and now the curse is upon the world!

Post: #56

Axx  Wrote:

Prophetic time is always day = year.

On that single fallacy....most of your calculations are incorrect.

Post: #57

--------------------------------------------------------------
Axx wrote:
Rev 11: Two witnesses/candlesticks, symbolic for the
word of God, the Bible; the law and the prophets.
--------------------------------------------------------------


As I previously posted, REV 1:20 specifically states
that the candlesticks are CHURCHES. Here it is again
for those following along:

Revelation 1:20 "*...The seven stars are the angels of the
seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou
sawest are the seven churches."

Axx, your argument is not with me, it is with John and Christ
HIMSELF who told John that Revelation's seven candlesticks
are symbols representing the seven churches.

It is word for word out of Christ's mouth.
Deny it at your own risk.

Secondly, the Old Testament is not divided into TWO as
you claimed - "the law and the prophets". The Old Testament
or Masoretic Text is known in Hebrew as the TaNaKh....

....representing the Torah (5 books of Moses), the Nevi'im
(the major and minor prophets), and the Ketuvim (the
writings - Psalms, etc.)

So, the Old Testament is not divided into "two witnesses"
of "the law and the prophets" as you claim. It is divided
into three, known as the TaNaKh.

Next, in order to try and prove this SDA doctrine as truth,
you deleted part of the sentence in Zechariah. For shame.

It doesn't say "this is the word of the lord" (supposedly meaning
the Masoretic Text or Old Testament as you and SDA claim).

Nope. You deleted part of the sentence, now didn't you?

Here is Zecharia 4:6 - In CONTEXT
and not shamefully redacted:

"Then he answered and spake unto me, saying,
This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying,
Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the
LORD of hosts."

If you have to DELETE part of the sentence to
prove your theology, well, what does that say?

Secondly on this point, if you knew how to parse sentences in
Hebrew or Greek (using the Septuagint/Greek Old Testament):
The syntax and grammar prove you categorically incorrect.

Someone else posted on this thread, trying to discount Enoch
and Elijah as the two witnesses by saying (roughly) that
"men don't live 1,260 years." Fair enough. But....

Enoch and Elijah were taken up bodily. And as I previously
stated regarding Moses, I will repeat concerning Enoch and
Elijah: They are not "1,260 years old". Nay. Simply put,
they are TIME TRAVELERS...brought into the future by
God Himself.

Someone else stated that John the Baptist was Elijah. Well,
that is not exactly the way it went down in Matthew 11 and
following chapters. What Christ said is below:

MAT 11:14-15 "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias/Elijah,
which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

The qualifier in this sentence is conditional: Christ said,
"*...IF ye will receive it". Did they receive it? No.

No, they didn't receive it.

The result was the crucifixion whereby the Kingdom of
Heaven on Earth which Christ preached was sent into
abeyance even unto this very day.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Axx also wrote:
I also posted scripture proving the thing was fulfilled, but you
glossed right over that looking for something to cling to your
now discredited dogma.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I know you didn't write that to me, but still....

Prophecies from the book of Daniel came as a "dream
or vision". Moses (GEN 46:2), Job (JOB 4:13), and Daniel
(DAN 7:7) called them night visions.

And while you proved to yourself that these prophecies were
fulfilled, it seems that you don't know what Job, King David
(Psalm 62:11), and even little ol' me have come to understand...

JOB 33:14-17 "For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man
perceiveth it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when
deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride
from man.

You see, Axx, you have only heard the prophecy ONCE.

Lastly, you stated that you are not a Seventh Day Adventist.

I find that odd, considering your posted theology generously
smacks of those silly little S.D.A. cartoon booklets that state
what you have posted here almost word for word.

As someone has already pointed out to you, the SDA has
many ties to Freemasonry. If you want to gobble down
masonic/SDA doctrine that is your choice...

I hope this helps.

Post: #58

Axx  Wrote:

Also, Scribe to Elijah, Christian-Zionism comes from the Devil by way of the Jesuits. And that's what all this future two witnesses business is, part of CZ.

It's no theory CZ came from the Jesuits, you may read about it right on wikipedia (i.e. Futurism) or numerous other places. Most all schools are infected with it.

Incidentally since you bring it up, I have a web blog exposing the errors of Adventism. The Two Witnesses is not one of them. The errors dont come in until chapter 13 the earth beast which replaces the sea beast. They claim the earth beast is the USA - yadda yadda - when actually it was/is the NWO. Thus the masonic founders of Adventism were protecting their NWO.

There is still a great deal of truth in SDA, such as who the sea beast is, and the correct Sabbath; and most of them are creation supporters, just in error on these foundational issues. The videos posted are both historicists, one SDA the other Pentecostal. I'm a member of neither, or any other. I dont believe we need denominations today. They are certainly all corrupt, as you say; and I agree. Still, at times we can learn from videos from any denomination, depending. The two videos posted are correct re Rev chapters 9, 10 & 11.

I also posted scripture proving the thing was fulfilled, but you glossed right over that looking for something to cling to your now discredited dogma.

Christian/Zionism, I agree with your conclusion is of the devil. I have had enough run-ins with one particular Jesuit trying to infiltrate and destroy our ministry at Two Olive Trees over in Yahoo, so I know what you're saying is true.

We have nothing to do with any denomination as it is only causes division. We only need to divide the Word of God according to the direction of the Holy Spirit, so need no man to teach us.

You feel Revelation chapter 11 has been fulfilled according to the information you gave. However, since Revelation 11 means something far different to me, mainly as being still in the future, I choose not to spend time poring over a lengthy video and notes.

According to Revelation 16:8, the dead bodies of Elijah and Moses will lie in the street of Jerusalem. I was led to live in Jerusalem for a time some years back and was given a stark demonstration of this when I came across two dead bodies of ravens, just hit by a car, with other ravens circling above them and crying. Ravens are connected with Elijah as we see in 1 Kings 17:6, which continue to this day concerning the Elijah for whom I scribe is concerned. I have many such stories to support a future fulfillment of Revelation chapter 11.

Post: #59

Rev 11 is TWO candlesticks not SEVEN--the menorah. The symbolism of Rev 11 comes from Zech 4 & 5 about the Bible--the flying scroll, as the angel explains.

Prophetic time is always day=year. You only reject this lost in futurist Jesuitical error. This is not SDA but Historicist. I already told you I'm not SDA. Historicism is a school like you are Futirist, whether you know it or not.

Following these 1260 years of Rome's dark ages was the atheistic French Revolution (spiritual Sodom & Egypt) atheist = declaring "god is dead" spiritually having crucified.

On the contrary - your timeline will always be off until you establish where in history the 1260 is/was.

You have been listening to Christian-Zionist pastors looking for things to happen in Israel that will never be because the Jews were cut off, the prophecy is not to predict the future.

About day-year principle as an established Bible Truth for the past 2000 years among Jews & Christians alike:

Matthew Henry (c.1700)
http://www.blueletterbible.org/commentar...Revelation

John Gill (c.1770)
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentar...13-16.html

Adam Clarke (c.1830)
http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkerev13.htm

B.W. Johnson (c.1890)
http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/revel...tion13.htm

Albert Barnes (c.1860)
http://www.studylight.org/com/bnn/view.c...hapter=013

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown (c.1871)
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.c...hapter=013

Geneva Bible notes (c.1599)
http://www.studylight.org/com/gsb/view.c...hapter=014

Only since c.1900 Scofield's Christian-Zionist notes have the churches fell away into this futurism. Scofield was a disciple of Darby schooled by the Jesuits.

Futurism is a Jesuit lie. Historicism is the bible truth and this includes the day-year principle as we find with the 70 weeks of Daniel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-year_principle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurism_(Christianity)
"To counter the Protestant interpretation of historicism, Roman Catholic Jesuit Francisco Ribera wrote a 500 page commentary on the Book of Revelation. This commentary established the futurist interpretation of Bible prophecy."

All well documented. All you've got is conjecture about two men who are going to allegedly resurrect, when the Bible says no man has immortality before the second coming.

You try and read the events of Revelation literal when they are symbolic. That's how futurism works.

Post: #60

11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

A symbolic passage having nothing to do with Jerusalem. It was fulfilled in 1798 and soon after when the Bible was mass produced and did go to all the world.