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2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Shakey1
Subscriber
User ID: 78542
06-22-2012 04:22 AM

Posts: 11,998



Post: #1
2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Tim Tebow, Elijah, Moses....

(wall of text):
Who are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation?

These are men who appear near the middle of the tribulation period, specifically in Israel.

Revelation 11:3. “And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.”

During the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 year period (a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days) 70th week of Daniels prophecy, God will send two witnesses to speak and witness on the earth 7 year period called 'the times of Jacobs trouble' or 'the tribulation period'

Can the two witnesses of Rev.11 be Enoch, Elijah or Moses?

A good point is that Jesus said Elijah must come before the great and terrible day of the Lord. But if Elijah entered heaven physically as the Bible teaches, then he must have had a bodily change from corruptible to incorruptible, for flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. This means he had a transformation to his body (as did Enoch who entered without dying Heb.11).

We would have to believe that God would reverse their incorruptible bodies, from being sinless to sinful so they can be killed for the first time.

Both Elijah and Moses according to Judaism were the two most powerful prophets in the Old Testament. Elijah was known for his miracles and Moses delivered the law. Both represented a good portion of all the prophets. This is why we these two and no others are at the Mount of Transfiguration when Jesus revealed His glory and what the kingdom would be like to his closest disciples.
Many believe the two witnesses will either be Enoch, Elijah and Moses because of how they dress (in sackcloth). Elijah is usually a main candidate as one of the witnesses because he did not see death but was carried to heaven on a heavenly chariot. Because the miracles done by the two witnesses are similar to Moses and Elijah most people assume it must be them.

But why can’t these be two completely new witnesses and prophets?

I don't think that the two witnesses will be either Moses or Elijah. First, Elijah was brought to heaven bodily so he has an immortal body that can never die again, once God gives this body it is permanent. If he is transformed then he is unable to die.

Not Moses because flesh and blood cannot enter heaven with their body so he must be transformed also. Moses would have had to have a separate resurrection which the Bible does not speak of to be the other witness. I do not think Moses would be resurrected and then die again in the Tribulation? The Bible never mentions Moses coming back in the Tribulation. One would think it would be worth mentioning if such an important event takes place; if Moses or any other Old Testament Saint would be here for years.

No one really knows for sure who the two witnesses will be. I would suggest they may be someone completely new that act in a similar manner, just as John the Baptizer did with Elijah. Two completely new witnesses, as God often does things this way. We don't see him recycle prophets from the Old Testament anywhere else.

The two witnesses will speak their message dressed in sackcloth. They will give a message of repentance and salvation and the sackcloth is a sign of the importance to Israel. John the Baptist wore sackcloth when he gave his message. likewise this is done just before the lord is to come again . Sackcloth also means separation from the world a sign for repentance, to seek God's mercy (Jonah 3:5-6; Dan.9:3; Esther 4:1; Amos 8:10; Mt.11:21).

God will use these two witnesses specifically to Israel as he will have the sealed 144,000 Jews from the tribes of Israel to proclaim the Gospel to the world. They will take over the job of proclaiming the Gospel from the Church which will be in heaven during this time. An innumerable number of souls will be won to the Lord Jesus during the tribulation period.

The Bible tells us Rev.11:4 “These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

V.5 “And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.”

These men were prophesied in the Old Testament Zech. 4:3-11, 14 “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.”

God wants his people to hear the Gospel and respond and be saved. In the end He will not allow their message to be interfered with by anyone. The two witnesses will be free to proclaim the Gospel and the devil or his servants are unable to stop them even though their power will be increased on the earth (until God allows it).

V.6 “These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”
During the seven year tribulation period, specifically, the first 3 1/2 years there will be no rain in Israel. Imagine what that will do the environment. No wonder people want them dead.

The two witnesses also turn the waters to blood, and bring plagues. They are God’s hand of judgment till men repent.

V.7 “And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”

There are two beasts mentioned. At the end of the first 3 1/2 years the two witnesses mission will be done. Only at this time does God allow them to be killed. The Devil will get his way.

V.8 “And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”

The two witnesses will be killed in the city of Jerusalem that will be filled with sin and bondage (thus the correlation to Sodom and Egypt) ...the same city the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. Their deaths will be covered world-wide by all the media.

V.9 “And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.”10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.”

They did not repent at their message the people will party like it’s the end of the world. Their bodies will be on open display through the media to the world for 3 1/2 days. The people of the world will rejoice that these two prophets of God are killed, this will be like the worlds Christmas present.

Certainly this even will contribute to the people saying “who is able to make war with the beast”(Rev.13) which leads up to the antichrist entering the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem and proclaim he is God demand worshiping from those there and throughout the world.

V.11 And after three days and an half the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven....


http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp50.htm

^just one of many speculations on this topic and these Scriptural characters available online^

(This post was last modified: 06-22-2012 04:23 AM by Shakey1.) Quote this message in a reply
Pi
Infinity
User ID: 3.14159265
06-22-2012 04:41 AM

 



Post: #2
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
archie

Don't you think there;s been enough religious threads for a while?

I know I do. It's getting boring.
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Guitar Doctor
Reality Shifter
User ID: 49375
06-22-2012 04:45 AM

Posts: 11,649



Post: #3
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Not clothed in hemp and traveling dispersing messages of repentance.

I also thought the two witnesses were on the case for two years before they get the Wack?

http://www.munication.com/
A part of you already knows the answers.
The more you can control yourself the less control your environment has over you.
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Shakey1
Subscriber
User ID: 78542
06-22-2012 04:48 AM

Posts: 11,998



Post: #4
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Pi  Wrote:
archie

Don't you think there;s been enough religious threads for a while?

I know I do. It's getting boring.

Religions, Christianity, eschatology very much factors into the conspiracy of the New World Order agenda. Sorry that you don't get that. Stay off those threads that are of a religious persuasion if you don't like them. Or go on them and b*tch about how much of a non-religion subscriber you are, how you hate people who are faith-based or have religious beliefs and that you can't even f*cking stand it when people even bring the issue of religion, spirituality and those types of metaphysical topics up on a conspiracy forum (anonymously as 'Pi', of course).
That being said, I love All in the Family and that Archie Bunker smilie. In fact, it was the brother-in-law of Norman Lear (producer of All in the Family, The Jeffersons, etc.) who introduced me to the Urantia Book, which has made a lot of sense for me and has shaped my cosmological worldview and religious subscription to a large extent (N. Lear is or was allegedly into the UB as well). So was Stevie Ray Vaughn, allegedly. Project Blue Book, the UFO military report, was also allegedly named after the UB (Freeman conspiracy personality claimed this).

Cheers Buttons.

(This post was last modified: 06-22-2012 05:03 AM by Shakey1.) Quote this message in a reply
Whimszy
It Is What It Is?
User ID: 103839
06-22-2012 04:49 AM

Posts: 1,548



Post: #5
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Interesting thread. I would like to think it will be new prophets from our time, but I doubt it. I can't think of anyone without sin in today's world.

chuckleHeartflowers

“A room without books is like a house without windows"
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Oh Bother :P
Registered User
User ID: 103309
06-22-2012 04:56 AM

Posts: 8,075



Post: #6
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Guitar Doctor  Wrote:
Not clothed in hemp and traveling dispersing messages of repentance.

I also thought the two witnesses were on the case for two years before they get the Wack?

They read the book and bailed Jptdknpa

I have been and still am a seeker, but I have ceased to question stars and books. I have begun to listen to the teachings my blood whispers to me: Hermann Hesse

If there be magic, let it be an art.
:Small bend from William Shakespeare


“How lucky I am to have something that makes saying goodbye so hard.”
― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh
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Shakey1
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User ID: 78542
06-22-2012 04:57 AM

Posts: 11,998



Post: #7
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Whimszy  Wrote:
Interesting thread. I would like to think it will be new prophets from our time, but I doubt it. I can't think of anyone without sin in today's world.

chuckleHeartflowers

Well, if we are currently in an eschatological period/End Times, then perhaps the two individuals that are two be killed and then resurrected and who are to prophecy and speak ill of the Antichrist and the government/system of the Beast are alive today. Imo, its probably too early to make a valid guess as to who these two people might be, unless one is really plugged into prophecy and maybe numerology or some other method-occult or otherwise-that would allow someone to discern the identity of these two characters. And would it be the 'personalities' of these people who are to die that come back into the physical forms of these persons, or would it be the personalities of previous 'prophets' or persons of historical record or religious myth (i.e. Elijah, Moses, etc.).

(This post was last modified: 06-22-2012 05:13 AM by Shakey1.) Quote this message in a reply
ButtonsAren'tToys
Registered User
User ID: 10663
06-22-2012 05:05 AM

Posts: 9,973



Post: #8
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Shakey1  Wrote:
Pi  Wrote:
archie

Don't you think there;s been enough religious threads for a while?

I know I do. It's getting boring.

Religions, Christianity, eschatology very much factors into the conspiracy of the New World Order agenda. Sorry that you don't get that. Stay off those threads that are of a religious persuasion if you don't like them. Or go on them and b*tch about how much of a non-religion subscriber you are, how you hate people who are faith-based or have religious beliefs and that you can't even f*cking stand it when people even bring the issue of religion, spirituality and those types of metaphysical topics up on a conspiracy forum (anonymously as 'Pi', of course).
That being said, I love All in the Family and that Archie Bunker smilie. In fact, it was the brother-in-law of Norman Lear (producer of All in the Family, The Jeffersons, etc.) who introduced me to the Urantia Book, which has made a lot of sense for me and has shaped my cosmological worldview and religious subscription to a large extent (N. Lear is or was allegedly into the UB as well). So was Stevie Ray Vaughn, allegedly. Project Blue Book was also allegedly named after the UB (Freeman conspiracy personality claimed this).

Cheers Buttons.

Lmao
I almost didn't click on the thread but wanted to know what the latest theory was

sorry bro
I didn't post that
although I sorta agree with it
but don't worry
the paranoids really are out to get ya! chuckle
guess I'll have to go through the wall=o=text and see what it says now
I'm sure it's brilliant
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Guitar Doctor
Reality Shifter
User ID: 49375
06-22-2012 05:06 AM

Posts: 11,649



Post: #9
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Oh Bother :P  Wrote:
Guitar Doctor  Wrote:
Not clothed in hemp and traveling dispersing messages of repentance.

I also thought the two witnesses were on the case for two years before they get the Wack?

They read the book and bailed Jptdknpa

Brilliant!
Who was going to believe some wacked out hippies anyway.

http://www.munication.com/
A part of you already knows the answers.
The more you can control yourself the less control your environment has over you.
Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 101624
06-22-2012 05:07 AM

 



Post: #10
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
i think it was someone at top posting the links, but one was to a site i forget that claims elijah was herbert w armstrong.

another guy claiming he is one of the lampstands.
http://the-end.com/


meant to finsh the book but never did. don't really have an opinion on it beyond the legalism i detect from some of the CoG stuff that seems a bit counter to christian theology, imo.
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Shakey1
Subscriber
User ID: 78542
06-22-2012 05:07 AM

Posts: 11,998



Post: #11
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
ButtonsArentToys  Wrote:
Lmao
I almost didn't click on the thread but wanted to know what the latest theory was

sorry bro
I didn't post that
although I sorta agree with it
but don't worry
the paranoids really are out to get ya! chuckle
guess I'll have to go through the wall=o=text and see what it says now
I'm sure it's brilliant

I took a guess chuckle

No offense; live and let live/to each their own/que sera Heartflowers

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ButtonsAren'tToys
Registered User
User ID: 10663
06-22-2012 05:08 AM

Posts: 9,973



Post: #12
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
so are you trying to say that you think TT might be one of the two witnesses?
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Oh Bother :P
Registered User
User ID: 103309
06-22-2012 05:09 AM

Posts: 8,075



Post: #13
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Guitar Doctor  Wrote:
Oh Bother :P  Wrote:
Guitar Doctor  Wrote:
Not clothed in hemp and traveling dispersing messages of repentance.

I also thought the two witnesses were on the case for two years before they get the Wack?

They read the book and bailed Jptdknpa

Brilliant!
Who was going to believe some wacked out hippies anyway.

precisely Hugs

I have been and still am a seeker, but I have ceased to question stars and books. I have begun to listen to the teachings my blood whispers to me: Hermann Hesse

If there be magic, let it be an art.
:Small bend from William Shakespeare


“How lucky I am to have something that makes saying goodbye so hard.”
― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh
Quote this message in a reply
Shakey1
Subscriber
User ID: 78542
06-22-2012 05:10 AM

Posts: 11,998



Post: #14
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
LoP Guest  Wrote:
i think it was someone at top posting the links, but one was to a site i forget that claims elijah was herbert w armstrong.

another guy claiming he is one of the lampstands.
http://the-end.com/


meant to finsh the book but never did. don't really have an opinion on it beyond the legalism i detect from some of the CoG stuff that seems a bit counter to christian theology, imo.

There is quite a few threads on this topic at ToP. I haven't really combed them much detail, but some of the posts on there are intriguing.
I figure we may be a few years before these cats come on the world stage, so it doesn't hurt from an eschatology conspiracy point-of-view to start the speculation rolling in earnest* doomedJhikpghf

* For those who care about these topics.

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Powhatan
Registered User
User ID: 97315
06-22-2012 05:10 AM

Posts: 973



Post: #15
RE: 2 witnesses (book of revelation)
Whimszy  Wrote:
Interesting thread. I would like to think it will be new prophets from our time, but I doubt it. I can't think of anyone without sin in today's world.

chuckleHeartflowers
All of the major OT figures had character flaws and were far from perfect.
When God told Moses that he was to be God's messenger to Pharoah, Moses used every argument he could think of to convince God that he was the wrong man for the job.
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