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AMERICA: Dulce AFB Insider Interview *COMPLETE* - will take an hour or two to read
User ID: 42621
07-29-2011 11:49 AM

Posts: 3,955

Post: #1
AMERICA: Dulce AFB Insider Interview *COMPLETE* - will take an hour or two to read
this i am pasting from a book read recently. i see no reason that an interview should be subject to copyright protection so will post it in it's entirety. please bear with me, it will take a while and multiple posts to copy the whole thing... now completed.

i found this to be quite credible sounding. please let me know what you think.

*** it is a long interview - start reading at post #10 if you want to get into the really interesting materials straight away ***


short synopsis:

* in the 40's, Americans are trying to find good location for a base;
* Dulce is one of the sites;
* they find unusual technologies there and are like WTF man?
* oh, no, base are belong to the little gray aliens!
* fight breaks out, humans hold top level of base;
* eventually some kind of peace treaty is agreed;
* aliens and humans begin to communicate and human get technologies;
* aliens are allowed to abduct cows for their nutrients;
* humans learn that we and gray aliens are creations of earlier race;
* oh no, fight breaks out again;
* new uneasy but continuing peace is reached;
* some various genetic engineering experiments take place in military & aliens cooperation;
* also cool side adventures featuring underground maglev system and UFOs.



BACKGROUND INFORMATION: This interview was held at a private residence in Placer
County, CA. on January 6th 2010 conducted by researcher Anthony F. Sanchez, with a
retired USAF Colonel to recall the events surrounding a classified 1979 incident which
took place at Dulce, NM. This includes details involving (Colonel X) who was assigned to
Dulce as part of a special Medical Detachment where he learned the history and
circumstances surrounding the 1940 Dulce Discovery event; a harrowing event, as
claimed by the Colonel, filled with many intriguing details, which have never been
revealed to the public before.

MESSAGE FROM ‘ANTHONY F. SANCHEZ’: Because of the enigmatic nature surrounding
the UFO phenomenon and how it typically negatively affects those who come forth with
disclosure, my source, (Colonel X), has requested anonymity.

Therefore, I have obtained the information from (Colonel X) with assurance that his
name would not be divulged under any set of circumstances, or until such time that I am
given permission to do so. His military record, academic credentials and current work as
a professor in Northern California have been vetted and deemed completely legitimate.

On January 8th, 2010 (Colonel X) submitted to two tests by a certified forensic
polygraph examiner. I specifically chose an examiner who knew nothing of the case as to
prevent him from later remembering or identifying my source who requests total

I personally architected all the questions (outside the innocuous), ensuring that we
conceal the secretive nature of the ‘story’ away from the polygraph examiner. Also, the
name of the subject was never given to the examiner, nor was his name asked during
the exam. Again, this allowed us to retain anonymity of (Colonel X). But all questions
were accordant to the Colonel’s understanding in that they reflected his direct
involvement at Dulce. He passed two independent examinations.

The forensic Polygraph Examiner can 'possibly' reveal the identity of (Colonel X); as such,
he was never made aware of the significance of Dulce or the reason for the exam. His
selection (the examiner) was made after meeting specific criteria, ensuring prevention
of leaks from discovery of the story’s premise. Therefore I will not divulge the name of
the examiner used, except for revealing that he is a retired law enforcement officer and
now a private investigator, also from Northern California.

All the accounts mentioned in this interview are real. There are no fictional characters,
and each of these events happened exactly as I have written them based on the
personal testimony provided by (Colonel X), the only known speaking 'first-hand
witness' to events at Dulce.

As a devoted UFO researcher and investigator, I regard the obligation to protect the
name of my source as sacred as is my obligation, to tell the truth. And more than
anyone else, I am still surprised as I am grateful, for this interview held with the Colonel.
I firmly believe that his testimony will be the catalyst to the exposure of what really is
happening beneath the Mesa at Dulce NM, and how it affects all of us.


Questions from Anthony F. Sanchez are: Bolded
The Colonel’s responses are: Un-bolded



Colonel, what are you doing today; are you still involved with the Military?

No, after leaving the Air Force I went back to school and earned two post graduate
degrees in Psychology. Today I teach graduate students at a college right here in
Northern California. I’m still happily married and have three children. All three are
grown now and doing quite well on their own, and I am very thankful they live close by.

So you live a pretty normal life, was it always this way?

No it wasn’t, and I guess that’s why we are here to talk.

During the latter half of my military career while I was still a Major with the U.S. Air
Force I can remember how arduously hard I worked towards a promotion to Lieutenant
Colonel. That’s all I wanted ... Anyhow, at about that time everything about my career
was quite normal, proceeding quite well.

I was stationed out of [1] McClellan Air Force Base near Sacramento, CA. assigned to a
Medical Detachment specializing in an area of Psychiatric and Behavioral Studies for
both the USAF (and occasionally the [2] Central Intelligence Agency), typically my work
involved trips to locations on joint Air Force-CIA special projects. I know that might
sound surprising, but it’s accurate.

However, any normalcy in my life ended at about that time; everything I knew would
change for many years to come. It began after I received orders to report to Edwards
AFB, from there I would fly on a special assignment to conduct interviews at a secret
installation in [3] Dulce, NM. That was all I knew about the assignment.

I remember thinking to myself, “Where in the world was Dulce?” For one, I had never
heard of the place. Secondly, and to the best of my knowledge, I was certain that none
of the people I had served with knew of Dulce, either. It had never been mentioned
before and was never on any list of installations that I had reported to.

The orders informed me that I was to adhere to strict protocol under our classified
guidelines, as this was a top secret assignment. This was nothing new for me, my
specialty detachment typically operated at various levels of classification, so our regular
operating protocol was to always treat each new job with a standard
compartmentalized approach.

I had been assigned on many top secret projects before, and in fact, the year before the
Dulce assignment I had been on one particular job having to do with a recovery mission
from a crash site located near [4] Fort Irwin down south. A USAF C-130E Hercules with six men aboard had nearly collided several times with an object of unknown origin
travelling at a super high rate of speed estimated at 1500-2000 miles per hour.
The survivors said the unidentified object appeared to be tracking them, almost playing
with them, coming closer with each pass. One man reported that a deafening high-pitch
sound penetrated the plane's walls, drowning out the aircrafts own engine noise,
causing them painful headaches. By the final pass from the object, the C-130E
immediately began to stall, ultimately crashing. Two men died.

This is what I did; what my detachment was for ... Our team reported to these types of
incidents, and they happened more often than you would think.

My role was to assist with physical and psychiatric evaluations of any surviving
personnel. Mainly what we would do was conduct an initial, that's medical lingo for a
first interview with the patient, and then we'd investigate and document the
investigation, all aspects. In some cases we'd facilitate triage if necessary and then
conduct exit interviews before submitting our final report.

In any event, we never were sure as to what the entire nature of the Irwin incident was;
however, one man we evaluated had been subjected to something so severe during the
incident that eventually he had to be discharged, medically for mental instability.
And whatever it was they saw out there was definitely traumatic enough to make them
succumb to an arbitrary psychological condition causing both paranoia and terror. It was
pretty severe.

I know you want to talk about Dulce, but it’s important that I mention this event, in
addition to other areas of my work, because it's what prepared me for Dulce, and with a
great level of relevance. You can be certain of it.

Do you mean, relevant to your work?

Exactly, this assignment was something that caught me completely off guard. Something
I don’t think I was prepared for even if the Air Force felt that I was.

I don’t know who recommended me, but I noticed that the two most qualified people in
my area of expertise were pooled together for this assignment, me being one of them.
Usually when on assignment we operated in a team of four to six people per
detachment, but this time it was to be just three of us. Later a fourth would be added,
but not in our field of expertise.

What I immediately can recall was that upon first reaching the entrance to the Dulce
Installation was that it appeared to be eerily similar in design to that of Cheyenne
Mountain Air Force Station [4] (NORAD) where I had been stationed twice before, except the entrance was half the size.

If you were flying above this place at any distance greater than a few hundred feet, you
would never know it was there. Only by landing directly near the front gate on an
obscure landing pad could you see the entrance. It was very clever how they used the
desert land-cover to conceal the entrance. Only by coordinates could you find it.

Colonel, I hate to do this … but before going into detail about Dulce can you briefly
describe your work at Cheyenne Mountain?

Well … before joining and starting OTS at Lackland, I had already earned my
Bachelor of Science in Psychology. Back then I had often pondered about one day
earning an M.D. in Psychiatry, but once I was fully entrenched, I was too busy; and the
travel involved quelled any ideas for additional higher education. Plus, Basic Officer
Training had been tough enough.

So, at that time an MD was simply out of the question until after my military career was
over, possibly. But wouldn’t you know it, I chose to forgo an M.D. in Psychiatry and
decided that teaching Psychology would be a much more relaxing and rewarding career
path for me after the military. And it is.

Anyhow, during my time with the Air Force I was selected for assignment with a
classified medical detachment, as you know already. How we operated was simple, we specialized in performing a battery of psychological and behavioral evaluations of
military personnel (from any branch) in two manners of protocol. One scenario would
be to conduct psychological assessments of personnel after ‘Type-X events’, and in the
other scenario, we would be called to evaluate potential candidates prior to
consideration for any ‘special assignment’ that involved a unique set of circumstances,
through both psychological and behavioral assessment.

A Type-X event or incident involves a death or accident caused by unknown
phenomena. These events are classified, usually falling under some umbrella of secrecy;
the very reason why my unit was created.

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(This post was last modified: 07-30-2011 08:09 AM by munit.) Quote this message in a reply

User ID: 42621
07-29-2011 11:54 AM

Posts: 3,955

Post: #2
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
Was it normal for your detachment to work at places like Cheyenne?

Oh yes, at Cheyenne there was regular evaluation required for any potential long-term
personnel slated for work at the installation. This was to help identify and combat the
affects of working in various levels of prolonged confinement, especially within a deeply
embedded or subterranean environment.

As you probably know, central operations at Cheyenne are housed at approximately 600
meters within the mountain and there are various levels of ranging depths to other key
operating areas below the mountain’s base.

It was quite common to encounter new people who had reservations over working
these assignments, but to the military … if these people were selected at the ‘top’ of
their grade and ‘qualified’ with a specific specialization meeting certain requirements …
well then, they had to be evaluated, and in rare cases (convinced) to perform their job.
This could be done either through psychiatric sessions, or by medicating, or both.

Very interesting, are you saying that many people at NORAD are medicated?

Oh no ... not at all. With about 1500 personnel operating the base at any one time, you
maybe had 3-5 people with simple diagnoses such as low-level claustrophobic anxiety,
the most common in these environments. But if we ever suspected that someone
possessed a high-level or an acute claustrophobic or taphephobic anxiety … there was
no way in ‘hell’ they would be permitted to operate there.


‘Taphephobic’ is the fear of being buried alive. Anyhow, these situations would require
too much physician interaction and the potential for bad effects from medicating, which
would not be conducive to facilitating a successful work environment, for anyone.
No, anyone found to be suffering from any acute psychological condition as a result of
the environment, was simply re-assigned. The work was the same every where I went
on these assignments … except for at the Dulce installation.

How was Dulce different?

At first it was because of circumstance. My assignment was always the same: you
conduct an investigation, perform psychological analyses of all the personnel involved,
and then submit a final report to the commanding officer, but I had never had been
asked to conduct a full investigation, in charge. Such an important task was usually
reserved for assignment to a Lieutenant Colonel, someone generally at a director of
operations level. At the time I was just a Major.


Aside from the one incident I mentioned before, near Fort Irwin, I had never had the
chance to lead a medical detachment, but that event was by chance because our
commanding officer was sick.

Incidentally, I should note that after submitting my final report for the Dulce incident to
my commanding officer, I was promoted to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. Being and
O-5 meant a higher pay grade and a path to one day possibly being a General, but I later
learned that my path to happiness would be outside the Air Force, teaching. It would
have been a good decision either way.

But, Dulce was different than anything I had ever been exposed to. I simply cannot sum
it up in one sentence.

Can you tell me about the assignment and when it arrived on your lap, so to speak?
Yes. It was late November of 1979 when they came in. I was at McClellan awaiting my
next set of orders. You see, with over 100 bases in the U.S. and Guam, including the
Academy in Colorado … there was never a shortage of work for my detachment. There
was always something coming in.

Colonel, are the 100 bases you are referring to USAF bases?

Yes, but I should also note that because of my unit’s joint operations with the Central
Intelligence Agency, detachments would also responded to incidents for other branches
of the military as well. Initially, when our unit was created, our mandate was to work
with the [7] FBI office out of Sacramento, but for reasons of which I was not privy to, the
CIA would eventually become the only organization that we jointly investigated Type-X
events with.

Any how, when these particular orders came in they arrived in the same usual manner;
however, these documents were marked with an official stamp for “Top Secret/SCI -
USAF, DoE Restricted Content”. There was also an embossed DoE insignia; a first time
for me, as I had never been involved with any operation outside the joint USAF-CIA
periphery for Type-X incidents.

This was my first assignment involving something that came in from the Department of
Energy and I wasn’t sure why. The [8] DoE (Department of Energy) was a Cabinet-level
department just formed a couple of years before in 1977. Back then, I wasn’t sure as to
why the DoE was even created. This is because the [9]AEC (Atomic Energy Commission)
had been replaced by the [10] NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission), so I figured they
managed everything nuclear. But much later I would learn the necessity for each group
and how they were indeed very different from one another. The NRC oversaw the
regulation of the nuclear power industry, and the DoE managed nuclear weapons, naval
reactors, and nuclear energy development programs. It made sense to separate those

Anyhow, back to the report. The report contained Sensitive Compartmented
Information. I remember thinking how I had never received this particular type of writeup
on any of the orders I’d ever received. Everything about this packet was way more
official than usual, and I just felt that something was going to be quite different about it.
I was told to report immediately to [11] Edwards AFB and to meet with another officer
who was also a part of this new formed detachment. As I was reading the orders, a
phone call came in from Material Command saying that an HC-130 Hercules aircraft was
ready for departure as soon as I gave the word. Someone it seems was making things
happen, and ensuring no obstacles were in place. So I grabbed the orders, my gear and
proceeded to the tarmac. It took less than an hour of flying to reach Edwards.

When we arrived I saw several of my usual colleagues, but just one of them had
received the same orders as me. I was already somewhat familiar with him, and like me
he was also a Major, in the same unit. We had been on a couple Type-X detachments
before, but we never really met outside the field. Upon confirming our orders and
exchanging a handshake, we did not discuss anything (as instructed in the packet) and
we waited for our first briefing with a Brigadier General identified in the report. He
would be assigned as our direct supervisory commander. Strange as we usually had a
lieutenant colonel heading up our forays.

At first, it would just be the three of us. Later, once at the facility, a Navy Lieutenant
Commander would also join us. But for now it was the Brigadier General who we were
curious about. Neither I nor the other Major had ever met the Brigadier General before,
but we suspected he was from right there at Edwards. In any event it was not our job to
ask. Incidentally, after this assignment I never saw either of them again; including the
Navy Lieutenant Commander.

Can you say who your colleagues were?

No. I simply cannot. The sensitivity of this information can potentially cause harm to
those who were involved. And I would hate to re-involve those men or put their
families in harms way. But what I can tell you are ranks, dates, locations, etc. and I can
give you great detail about everything you need to know, but I will not say anything that
would directly identify specific individuals.

As it is, I am concerned over sharing this information with you today. But I feel that the
information must to be told to someone, else it will never make it out publicly; not ever.
I know that now.

Interesting … Colonel if I may ask, without naming anyone are they still alive?

Yes. I’m sad to say that the Brigadier General has already passed on, and the Major is
now in a home. The Navy Lieutenant Commander is doing fine in retirement in Boca
Raton, Florida. So as you can see, there is nothing preventing me from talking with you
here today, and there is safety through anonymity. So long as I remain anonymous, I
feel okay with this. Incidentally, my role in the military after the Dulce event took on a much more interesting path than any of theirs. Paths that can afford me both the
protection and solitude I need to do what I am doing with you right now.

Got it, please continue.

Something had happened at this Dulce Installation. And I say it in that manner because I
had never heard of Dulce before. I knew of [12] Kirtland AFB by Albuquerque and [13]
Holloman near Alamogordo, but I had never of, and I repeat, never had heard of the
Dulce New Mexico Installation. I’d been to the desert high-terrain of northern New
Mexico many times before with family, but never on business. This was going to be a

When I received the orders I assumed it was a base, an air field or some common type
of military installation, but that particular bit of info was never indicated. During our
briefing with the Brigadier General at Edwards we were told of a secret two-part
installation which existed near the town of Dulce NM.

It said we were reporting to a subterranean facility similar to Cheyenne but with a
completely different dynamic in its architectural design by incorporating natural
elements of the surrounding environment. We were also told that the military
command structure located at the installation was somewhat unorthodox however
highly functional. Later what I found most surprising was that this place was devoted to
both pure scientific and engineering R&D (research and development). I’ll never forget
when I first viewed the sign which read, “Welcome to the [14] Rio Arriba Scientific &
Technological Underground Auxiliary”.

I was great. You loved it. [Image: 7D47_4E962234.gif]
Quote this message in a reply
User ID: 42621
07-29-2011 11:58 AM

Posts: 3,955

Post: #3
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
Really, is that the official name of Dulce?

That’s right. The public does not know this, but the Dulce facility’s official U.S.
Government designation is: “Rio Arriba Scientific & Technological Underground
Auxiliary”. I do not think it has ever been made public before now. In fact, I’ve never
seen it on the internet, ever. But that is the official government designation. However,
more often than not, those who work there simply call the facility either “Rio Arriba” or
“Dulce Facility”.

Here is another thing as well; there are places where the designation can be found by
anyone. If you perform a search of official military documentation, the location will
from time to time appear as ‘RIO ARRIBA CO’ or ‘RIO-AUX’. Another unknown fact is
that initially Dulce was made up of two facilities. A third facility came about much later,
but let me tell you about the first two. D-1 is the largest and main facility situated
directly beneath the Archuleta Mesa. [15] D-2 is a smaller two level underground facility
situated off the Archuleta plateau, located several miles eastward. D-2 is a security

D-1 is the main R&D facility where all the civilian employee scientist and engineers
report to work. At D-2 it’s much quieter, and there are helicopter pads located above
ground, obscured but sometimes visible near the entrance of that particular location.
These helicopter landing pads are mechanical hydraulic lift systems which can quickly
drop down to level 1. And beneath the landing pads, on level 1, there is a small hanger
used for the Dulce Facility’s helicopters. And from time to time, when necessary they
can also park High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWV), Humvee’s.

Colonel, I’m sorry but how does a Humvee get around up there; wouldn’t the terrain
prevent it from getting around?

First of all it doesn’t. The Humvee’s used by the facility’s personnel occurs beneath the
surface, underground on a platform which adjoins the [16] Maglev shuttle tracks from D-1
to D-2. The terrain above D-2 is not for vehicles. The Humvees could manage but they
don’t venture up above. These are only for operation within the facilities.
What I saw on multiple occasions was delivery of supplies and equipment by helicopter
to D-2, on an adjoining pad a Humvee would be waiting for these items. The Humvee
would then be lowered down to level 1 where they would travel to D-1 for delivery of
said items. This is one of the more common delivery methods I personally witnessed.
But lots of inbound items arrived via shuttle to D-1 from Los Alamos and other
connectors as well.

I was in 1982 there when they swapped out two older are M998 Cargo/Troop Carriers
for new models, and those did arrive from Lumberton up County Road 357, towards the
Colorado border, where they were then driven to the D-2 auxiliary. Once they arrived
they were then lowered down to level one. But that’s about all those vehicles will ever
see of the surface unless in extreme cases of emergency. You have to understand that
the Maglev shuttle between D-1 and D-2 also includes an extended flatbed carrier in
addition to its two passenger cars. If the platform is ever obstructed the Humvees can
ride the flatbed over to D-1.

D-1 on the other hand can heavy see inbound and outbound traffic from its entrance
from ground vehicles if it were required. But that rarely, if ever occurs. Most all
inbound visitation comes from the Shuttles.

Colonel, you’ve been dropping hints to me that you were there at Dulce for some
time, am I accurate?

Yes. We’ll get into that.

Also, I hate to sound skeptical about this. But how are these “hidden” helicopter pads
able to remain unseen, because my suspicion is that this would be extremely difficult
to pull off?

Have you been to the area off the Eastern Slope of the Mesa? There really isn’t much
going on between the slope and County Road 357. All that you are going to find out
there are very few scattered cabins and remote homes, some of which are not even
inhabited year round. So yes, the landing pad area remains relatively unvisited due to
its remoteness. And you have to remember that they are expertly disguised by large
industrial canvass pull-away tarps that cleverly mimic the area’s ground cover when fully
stretched. Not a scientific approach, but very successful at concealing the pads.

Despite there being a massive warehouse/hanger facility situated within D-1, mostly
what goes on at D-2 is housing for the helicopters. The D-2 security auxiliary represents
a better access point and it’s where the physical maintenance happens so it makes
perfect logistical sense. Another important reason for this is because from time to time
there are two very large special craft, discs, housed at the D-1 hanger bays which are
not ours.


Yes, and not ours … technically. But I’ll elaborate more on the craft later. Besides, I
think you’ll find this next bit of information just as interesting.

Which is what?

That despite the remoteness and hidden nature of D-2, finding the D-2 facility entrance
occurs quite often by regular people. There is a visible unimproved dirt road; well, it’s
more of a trail and it is very bumpy, leading up to the spot. This location is found more
often than not by regular people who visit the area. Many Jicarilla People have found it,
and know damn well what it’s there for. But through mutual understanding with [17]
DSD-3, they never talk about it openly.

To keep people from guessing about what it is exactly, there is a small above ground
shack, operational with numerous types of ground sensors, cameras and sometimes one
or two soldiers in plain clothes. The shack bares hardly any signage to avoid indicating
ownership or purpose, etc. It is a very quite place, and is almost always locked up. It is
just boring enough in appearance to keep people unaware to what it really is, and more
importantly, it’s to keep people away from it. So when you hear people telling stories of
finding the entrance to Dulce, this is usually what they are referring to. And they are
correct; it is (one) of the entrances to Dulce.

Alternatively, finding D-1 is not easy. The D-1 main entrance is up against a wall or slope
of columnar basalt. It is a sophisticated entrance similar to Cheyenne in appearance,
but it is behind two very large pull-away doors covered with a realistic and undetectable
rock face façade to conceal its location. This is where I was taken, and I’ll tell you right
now that if you were not aware of these doors existence, you would never find them.
There is an obscured unimproved dirt road which hugs a hidden path that leads to the
entrance; people hike and even drive past on regular occasion. This is what was built in
1947-49 when road construction had begun to facilitate traffic for a “Lumbar Company”.
This would be by creating a road that would facilitate transport of lumber away from the
area. This is all public record; however, not one tree was ever cut down or taken from
the area. The US Army Core of Engineers from Muroc used the roads to foster the
construction of the facility. And when they completed the job, the roads were
destroyed. Now only one unimproved road to the entrance exists, and it too is cleverly
hidden if not impassible.

Another thing is this… The Dulce facilities all operate within the periphery of [18] LANL.

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Quote this message in a reply
User ID: 42621
07-29-2011 12:01 PM

Posts: 3,955

Post: #4
RE: Dulce Insider Interview

Los Alamos National Laboratories; there are direct routes to Technical Areas throughout
Los Alamos from the Dulce Facilities. In fact the official designation for D-1 is TA-D1 and
the same goes for D-2 and [19] D-3. Insiders just shorten it, dropping the TA, for
whatever reason. The one thing I want to share with you that is critical for you to
understand is that [20] LANL is involved with everything. There are high level individuals
who have direct access to DSD-3 and [21] Installation Command at the executive level.
These people work with DSD-3 to determine who gets chosen to work at the main Dulce
Facility, and at D-3.

What about D-2?

No. There is no one at D-2 except for DSD-3 pilots and security personnel.

Is it possible to drive out to D-2?

It’s possible, but you really wouldn’t want to drive because the terrain is nearly
impossible to traverse without the right type of vehicle. You can make your way up
County Road 357 to the area parallel to D-2 but once you leave the road for the shack,
it’s better to go by foot.

Well that’s definitely new information. I’ve head the ‘Lumbar Company’ reference
before, but never in that context. And can you provide coordinates to D-2?
Anthony, technically I could, but I would be risking my life, even under the super level of
anonymity which I employ today; you have to understand that revealing as much as I am to you is going to immediately trigger protocols within DSD-3 for finding me. But they
won’t. I am beyond their reach; I have assured that long ago.

Can you go into details about this?

No. Just think about how our mutual friend got you and me together. You know his
past, which companies he’s worked for and what he developed over the last decade. He
belongs to the same channel of people that I am a party to. We created our circle and
have tightly guarded our secrets to protect us. And let’s just say that we have many
owed favors and unlimited resources to ensure that they are paid when asked for.
Once we part, that’s it. You won’t see me again. I’ll transfer within my employer to
another facility elsewhere within the country and my family has already made plans to
follow. And that is all I am going to elaborate on. They’ll never find me.
Understood… Can you tell me about people finding D-2? You were hinting to that

D-2, people do find it. Every year people mange to find the spot, you just have to look
hard for it. And I’m telling you that it is none of the cabins or homes in the low lying
area off the Eastern Slope. The D-2 shack is a small military made utility-type structure.
That’s what you are looking for. And if you are guessing as to why would it even be
there, the reason is because it houses a secondary set of operating controls for the
lading pad and mechanical hydraulic lift systems; and if for no other reason at all, that is
why it is there. I have been inside of it numerous times.

Where does the shack or even the D-2 facility get its power from? Where you are
describing is a remote area. And various internet sources say its either Navajo Dam or
El Vado Dam, are these correct?

No. That’s wrong.

Anthony, this is what I look for on the internet. I look for the stories created by those
who don’t know what they are talking about. It’s these little details that let me know
right off the bat when someone is making claims of certain things (about Dulce) which
they obviously don’t know at all.

Both D-1 and D-2 facilities use factory-sealed ‘200 kW’ miniature nuclear reactors, called
Micro-Reactors; these are designed and created by Los Alamos National Laboratories.
They’ve been in use for over 30 years now. What’s amazing is that this technology is
only now making its way to the commercial domain. The Dulce Micro-Reactors are only
a few meters in diameter, and only require refueling once every 10 years.

They are the ideal choice for the creation of Deep Underground Facilities. [22] Pine-Gap
uses them, so does [23] “Northrop Corporation-Pico Rivera” as well as [24] Mount
Weather, [25] PARI and quite a number of the areas supporting the LANL underground
Technical Areas in and around the township.

Colonel, I’m sorry; PARI, Mount Weather … what are these?

These are other “Deep Underground Facilities”. Some are scientific, military, and
medical, even emergency government auxiliaries. They are everywhere, and not just in
the United States. Pine Gap is in Australia, and we’ve jointly constructed several in
Canada. The Russians, including a host of other European countries have them as well.
In Russia there’s [25] “Yamantau Mountain” which is similar to Cheyenne but larger. I’d
say by the intelligence I receive that it’s very antiquated but filled with dangerous levels
of toxic materials and loosely monitored nuclear equipment. That’s a place we worry
about often.

The Chinese too have constructed what is probably the mother of all underground bases
in the Chengdu District which has a rail system that leads all the way to the southern
coastal waters off China. And theirs is exactly that. It is a military base. Unlike Dulce
which is scientific used for research and development, not to mention reverse
engineering, the [26] Chengdu Underground Complex is used for military use only. Our
intelligence on Chengdu is very limited. That is another facility and government who we
need to pay real attention too. When the shit hits the fan it will be China and elements
of Russia; not the Middle East like you are being led to believe.

The Chinese are developing stealth capabilities at a devastatingly fast rate. And if we
don’t pay attention they are going to own our Military in the same way they already
own our economy. They have already shown that their Song Class submarine possesses
stealth capabilities further than we had anticipated; and they even surprised our best
naval fleet during one of our own military exercises. Later you’ll understand why Dulce
is so important to our government.

And matters like these, as with the Chinese, are prime example as to why we’ve
expanded beyond the Dulce/LANL periphery to newer areas within the country that
even I only know very little of. The work at Dulce is important and is in the interest of all
of our asses, but some aspects are just wrong. And those I cannot condone any longer.

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User ID: 42621
07-29-2011 12:04 PM

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Post: #5
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
Colonel when you mentioned Dulce’s power, what did you mean by factory-sealed in
reference to the reactors; and are they safe?

Factory-sealed means they are produced and shipped ready to use, with very little if any
modification sans standard maintenance protocol to abide by. And they are completely
safe; they are based off a 50-year-old design specification but are retrofitted during
annual maintenance checks with highly advanced safety features, when necessary or
asked to by Los Alamos. And quite frankly, there is no danger of a small scale [28]
Chernobyl ever occurring because the reactor design has no moving parts and the units
are stored deep in buried concrete housings.

What makes these the preferred source of power for the underground facilities is that
they only measure six meters by two meters which means they take up a very small
footprint, and they were designed to fuel a small town or super large facility, like D-1,
for up to 50 years at a minimum. So regarding the false assertion that it’s a Dam that
powers the facilities, that is not true.

For water, [29] El Vado Dam does however provide the primary source to both D-1 and D-
2 but there was neither water nor power that I can recall ever being provided to the
facilities from the [30] Navajo Dam. So that assumption, which I too have read on the
internet, is wrong. One possibility though, although D-3 is directly west of El Vado, is
after the completion of D-3 in Leandro Canyon is that Navajo Dam would be used for the
main water source due to its southern location. That I don’t know, but that’s always
been my assumption bout D-3, because Leandro Tank is nothing more than an
impoundment area used to expel toxic waste.

I have never heard of Leandro Tank; is it managed by BLM?

No, the BLM might look after the adjoining [31] Project Gas Buggy Area; there are a
couple of federal markers there to denote its historical past. But this area most likely
gets overlooked by any BLM interests because Leandro Tank is not a reservoir; it’s too
small and nothing of the sort. At its maximum it’s only 10m by 10m. It’s just an
impoundment area used as a cattle tank. And nowadays there are no cattle in that area.
They’ve moved on; got smart … wanted to stop dying.

But there is another larger tank about half a kilometer away, just downstream of the
Gas Buggy site’s boundary. And for practical purposes this is all that D-3 would need; a
drainage system leading into a water source not for humans, used to expel toxic waste.
And if you are wondering why they would choose there, it’s because it’s in a remote
area that’s already contaminated with radiation.

But the strongest clue for me is that both times I have visited Leandro Canyon, since my
retirement, I have seen lots of dead Cattle there. And I am certain their deaths were not
from natural causes. From what I witnessed, there was no reason for so many young
healthy cattle to be dead; especially when surrounded by heavy vegetation and plenty
of water. So this tells me that the water has to be contaminated from a D-3 runoff. In
any event, from what I can tell, there have been no cattle in the area for years now.
An already contaminated area, plus not being a human water source usually equates to
little or no involvement from [32] Bureau of Land Management or [33] Department of
Game and Fish interests. It’s perfect.

Do you have information on the third facility; for instance when it was completed,
who uses it?

Talks of a D-3 facility had been spoken about well before I ever got there. I know from
others that as far back as the mid 1960s that there were always plans to expand. And
Gas Buggy was a catalyst to much of this talk because it just happened to coincide
exactly where they had been proposing a new location, to the southwest of Dulce.
I know it was completed in 1991. It was supposed be built during two phases between
1978 and 1980, but the tensions leading up to the 1979 event stopped all development
at that time, and it caused a considerable delay. I was retiring in 1983 so what I know
about the Dulce Facility, events occurring afterwards, are based on the information I got
from my intelligence channel.

In 1980 Leandro Canyon was being visited by an expansion team from D-1 to review the
terrain for possible development. I know this because I was personally escorting many
of them out there by helicopter. Again, with the completion of Leandro Tank in 1980,
this opened up many possibilities for the proposed new area to house two new jointscientific
divisions; ones which required more operating space, and unchecked water drainage systems. I just knew they would build there; that they would select it because of its contaminated nature. And they did.

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User ID: 29876
07-29-2011 12:18 PM

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Post: #6
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
Can you tell me about Gas Buggy?

Project Gas Buggy was a planned underground nuclear detonation in 1967 under the
umbrella of the Ploughshares program. ‘Project Ploughshares’ represented two planned
underground nuclear explosions to stimulate gas production of known gas reserves
which were identified but difficult to exploit for various reasons.
They believed that the explosions would break up the deep rock formations, softening
the geology release much of that gas that was entrapped. There was Project Rawlson
and Project Gas Buggy as part of ‘Project Ploughshares’. Rawlson was another

Did they have to blast the area to expand?

No... not at all, but the analysts at the time informed the engineering core that the
advanced insulating materials developed at Los Alamos would allow them to go right
through that area should they need to via Maglev without any mal-affects from
irradiation. They also said that the softened geology would make work easier for the
proposed new facilities which could be quickly constructed and insulated.

I really don’t want to get into much more about Gas buggy, but what I do know is that
the AEC was really trying to leverage natural gas pockets for exploitation; however, the
way they went about exploration was not without its many problems. By-products did
provide some levels of facilitation towards the creation of new facilities, so all of it was
justified. The problem is that the 1979 event stopped everything.

What saved the D-3 installation plans was that despite the 1979 event, Leandro Canyon
was far away from the two main facilities, way out to the southwest of Dulce. So they
continued on and built the tank in 1980. But building the Maglev from Dulce out to
Leandro Canyon was completely off the table at that time. This is because using the
tunnel boring machines to construct the intricate levels of subterranean passageways
and openings for the facilities required that they begin from the Dulce Facility.
So it took some time before they restarted construction. Later on, from my intelligence
pool, I was told that by 1991 they finally managed to complete D-3. And although I have
never seen any of it (inside), I can tell you now that there is an opening, an emergency
shaft constructed as part of the ventilation system, located near the Leandro Tank area.
I’ve seen it, recognized the design and know that it’s part of the facility. That’s all I
needed to see to confirm my intel.

Colonel, you keep mentioning 1979, sounds like a lot was going back then; can we go
back to your retelling about the initial orders you received for Dulce?

Yes. Our ad-hoc unit was called in because a confrontation had occurred just 48 hours
earlier at the Dulce Facility between joint Special Forces units and the inhabitants of the
lower installation levels. Our job was to assess the survivors, and we were also to
administer a neurobiological agent to everyone during our interview process. The
orders listed a very simple protocol to follow:
1. Conduct an initial
2. Administer the agent
3. Observe changes
4. Conduct exit interview
5. Document all findings

We were to follow these steps for every single person involved. But right away,
medicating to me was an immediate red flag. Not because this was not the norm;
rather, because I was not an M.D. nor was my colleague or the Brigadier General for
that matter.

So with my colleague present … I simply made a quick and quite inquiry to the Brigadier
General. Now mind you this was not a protest, just a simple inquiry. I asked him, “Were
we to administer the neurobiological agent ourselves, without the presence of a Doctor,
and would a Doctor present?” My assumption was that a Psychiatrist from my unit
would be along for this, but that was not the case.

He told us both, “Majors … do as you are god damned told or expect reassignments of
the worst kind imaginable for the remainder of your careers, understand?” he
continued, “Or if you prefer, expect a dishonorable discharge effective immediately,
depending on how I feel about the look on your faces. Do I make myself clear?”
I’ll be damned if my whole military career hadn’t raced through my mind at that
moment. I remember looking at my fellow Major and just through our eye contact we
understood one another, agreeing to conform and to shut up; to avoid ruining our

“Gentlemen, make your decisions now.” He said. The Major and I gave our ‘yes sirs’ and
that was the end of it. “Very good”, the Brigadier General responded.

After that we never made any inquiries outside of normal operating procedures, and we
just did what the Brigadier General expected from us. But I tell you, I was amazed at
how quickly he could revert back to the friendly demeanor we witnessed upon meeting,
from his near-demonic state during that moment.

After a few minutes had passed he looked at us both with seriousness and an almost
slight tinge of concern. In a very congenial manner he told us both, “Majors, I do not
know what the hell is going on here any more than you do. But I do know that the three
of us were chosen because of our abilities.”

He continued, “I was told that under the most daunting circumstances that you two
men would be the least likely to breakdown or fail to perform your jobs. That is why
you were chosen. At this moment we are headed into a situation of which some parts I
am having difficulty comprehending. But, in any event, I am going to do my god
damned job and I expect the same from you. Once we are on that plane I will be sharing
whatever it is I have inside this large envelope with you, and when I do … I expect you to
deal with it; whatever it may be. Do you understand?”

We both nodded and responded with our ‘yes sirs’; and it was right then where we
began to really wonder what we were involved with.

Did you or the other Major have any idea what was coming?

No, not at all… If you had told me half the things we would read in those briefing
documents I would have said you were insane. There was so much information, so
much to absorb before landing. But they wanted us to view as much as possible.

Can you explain what it was you saw in the briefing documents?

The Brigadier General’s envelope contained three complete sets of briefing documents,
enough paper in each set to fill a binder. There were lots of documents to review, one
document described the incident that had occurred just two days earlier, but it was very
sparse lacking lots of data, with very little detail to offer as the event was still literally
unfolding over at Dulce.

Other documents described the layout of the installation, showing levels accessible to
installation personnel, and another gave a detailed operational background of the
facility’s current use; detailing exactly how it functioned, etc. But much to my surprise
one document was on the history of the facility, which I found a bit odd. Why would I
need to understand the history of this place?

Also, there were documents containing data about inhabitants of the installation, this
immediately caught my attention. Initially when I read the report on the inhabitants, I
thought I was reading about Native American people, but there was something about
the description of them that wasn’t quite right. Upon reading further, it began to take
some real strange turns with entries I simply couldn’t easily wrap my head around.
After a few moments spent on this one document (in particular) I realized that
something was completely amiss here, and I had to stop reading it all together, for a moment, to gather my composure. It’s just that my mind was having trouble accepting
what I was reading. But I was directed to read as much of the material as I could. So I

As the plane made its way to New Mexico, the other Major and I would periodically stop
reading and look at one another, as if to see as if we each had the same documentation
… we did. In one instance even the Brigadier General himself looked up to make eye
contact with us. But boy you better believe he was all business; there was no fear in his
eyes, and not so much as an inkling of concern. I guess that’s why he was chosen as the
commanding officer. Someone must have known he’d not react, and that he would
simply do his job as ordered. To some extent I believe that’s why we were all chosen.
I thought the references to symbols and inscriptions were referring to some
archeological Native American findings; however, it became quite evident that the
writings or inscriptions were pertaining to linguistics of ‘non-human’ origin, and that I
was reading a report describing a species, not a tribe.

While continuing to read the documents, the Brigadier General told us that once inside
the installation, it was also our job to rendezvous with a U.S. Navy Lieutenant
Commander who would be awaiting our arrival. All I knew, initially, was that he was
also being flown in to Dulce, for the same reason as us, but it was unclear what his role
was. The Brigadier General stated that he would be reporting to me and the other
Major, and that he would mirror us during our work. I eventually learned that he would
be photographing and filming everything we did. When he arrived, he was flustered
from carrying so much gear and filming equipment, but he was a serious guy.

I thought it was strange that a Navy Officer was involved but I would soon learn, after
my arrival, that the Dulce installation was operating under Joint-Oversight from the
USAF, U.S. Navy and U.S. Army. This group was known as ‘Installation Command’.
Installation Command is the Military Administration and proxy organization operating
RIO-AUX oversight of all scientific and technological research projects; they are also
responsible for the Black Budget and Federal contract administration. Amazingly, the
RIO-AUX installation represents a microcosm similar to the pentagon in that there are
numerous representatives from each special units of each branch:
• [34] ‘China Lake Naval Weapons Center’; represented via proxy under the “Deputy
for Navy” at the nearby [35] White Sands Missile Range (WSMR).
• [36] ‘Air Force Research Laboratory’ / Edwards AFB; represented via proxy under
the “Deputy for Air Force” at WSMR.
• [37] ‘Army Research Laboratory’ / Computational and Information Sciences
Directorate (CISD); represented via proxy under the “Garrison Commander” from

All three groups work under the umbrella of the Department of Defense (DoD).
I learned all of this through the report. We simply had to understand how that facility
operated before we could be allowed to perform any work there. The understanding is
that they would not be tolerant of ignorance from any one involved. This is why we
were privy to a full disclosure.

And the installation, albeit run by the military, is not a military base. It is a pure
scientific research and development facility. I would come to learn that that there are
two major Federal contracting bodies there at Dulce, the [40]
“RAND Corporation” who are conducting Bio-Genetics, Geology, Chemistry, Experimental Medicine efforts. And the other is “Bechtel Corporation” who manages Infrastructure - Transport,
Excavation and Tunnel Construction projects.

Are there other contractors besides these two?
Only a few… Applied Molecular Genetics, URS Corp, Raytheon, IBM and that
is it. At least up to 1983 when I was there. Those groups come in as subcontractors
using their GSA [46] (General Service Administration) schedules, it was their ticket in.
Their GSA is sort of an awarded right to do business with any federal entities and the US
military. Those companies I mentioned all work under Bechtel or RAND who are the
Prime contractors at Dulce. And these two have pre-structured guaranteed no-bid
contracts with Rio Arriba … Dulce.

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User ID: 29876
07-29-2011 12:23 PM

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Post: #7
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
How do they get paid?

The money trails go invisible once they are inside. And personally I have never
understood the Black Budget aspect of Dulce that well. But there definitely is an
influx of money so it is Installation Command’s senior controllers’ job to manage it. The
Financial Office has a very tight grip on that area. But as you know, without money
there is no show. So of course money is critical to the success of the facility, including
its secrecy. If you like, we could talk more about this aspect later. But for now I’d like to
focus on my arrival.

Understood; can please continue telling about when you travelled to Dulce for that
first time?

Yes. On our way there, we had been told to read everything, twice. They wanted us to
be absolutely sure of how to handle the situation, and the inhabitants. The Brigadier
General said that some of the things we would hear from survivors were going to seem
fantastical at first, but that everything was factually verifiable, and that reading the
documents carefully would clarify any questions we had.

As I read more I reviewed documents on the background of the inhabitants, but I was
told to also focus on the facility layout as it was real easy to get lost once inside without
a guide. And we were told to study the illustrations and descriptions of the weapons
technology and facility equipment, but not ours; rather, the ones used and created by
the inhabitants.

Strangely, we were told to review the documents on the Alien’s physiological makeup as
well. This is where the other Major came into play; he was a comparative physiology
specialist; having already studied a multitude of life forms. All this was in addition to his
also possessing a psychology background. So together we would assist one another and
document each others finds.

We were told that we would have a 48 hour window of clearance at the Installation
starting the second we arrived, and that upon conclusion of those 48 hours we would be
escorted out. So it was imperative that we conduct a workable timeframe using
accelerated protocols, condensing the ones we were already familiar with. We were
also told that once there, we were stuck there even in the event that we finished our
work early.

The Brigadier General said all personnel (except the security division) were going to be
evacuated within the final hour of our 48. He said the installation would be sealed up until experts could later perform analysis of the event and our findings as to determine
(how best) to proceed back into the installation “without incident”.

The environment was crazy when we arrived; we had been indoctrinated through a few
short but intense meetings with the security division and had been directed to areas we
were supposed to have familiarized our selves with during the flight. Thankfully we did.
There was a large group of people being attended to; some medically but mostly with
blankets and coffee, some food.

In addition we had also seen a room with body bags, lots of them. It was a make shift
morgue with all the tags neatly stacked in a section of this room, on the upper facility,
that was kept apart from the people who were waiting for processing. Before we left
we had to account for all the missing people, so we worked in the room for a spell,
ensuring that all the people there were entered into our list. This helped identify who
was still missing, as all the living people had been processed.

Anyhow, when we began setting up our station, the people knew that they would need
to be interviewed before being let go via the Maglev shuttle back to the Los Alamos
National Laboratory access point. These were just regular people, scientists, chemists,
engineers, and technical people of all manners who worked there.

This fact amazed me. “How do they do it?” I remember asking myself. I kept thinking,
how do these people work here and say nothing? I later learned that average federal
contractor for both subs and primes were earning a six figure salary. And this is in the
1970’s, so consider that, plus the fact that they each have been vetted thoroughly … and
probably threatened as well.

Colonel, where is the access point?

There are several of them. The main one being exactly where you would expect a large
group of people to assemble daily and where you would need the infrastructure to
employ human resources management activities; and it’s the perfect cover too,
underneath [48]

Technical Area 3 (LANL TA-3) is the primary access point. Take a look at
the number of parking areas there and ask yourself, why they hell do they need so much
parking? The Otowi Building is not that big, but many people congregate in the vicinity
daily. And where are so many of them going? To Dulce that’s where; and there are
other LANL areas too. TA-41, TA-49, and the airport TA-73 to mention the most high
profile ones.

I’m going to segue a bit… But how does a group of individuals who worked at Dulce
not divulge anything about the secret nature of the installation? It seems to me that
trying to conceal a place where a lot of people worked at would be very difficult,

One thing you have to understand that at this level of operation, handling of sensitive
information in addition to conducting strict personnel management is done through
teams of dedicated specialized people whose work is to ensure that only the right type
of person is ever selected, vetted and processed through ‘conditioning’, a subset of
processes or techniques which were adopted from a program called MKULTRA.

MKULTRA has a dark past, but the methods evolved and extracted, for purposes of
conditioning, work. So they use them. They meaning the CIA and shadow groups like

For the civilian contractor population, their clearance involves a high level vetting
process called ‘canvassing’ resulting in a Civilian Personnel Resource Pool. These people
receive various levels of top secret clearances specific to their roles or work
designations, and they also receive high salaries. Also, you have to keep in mind that
workers who are well compensated are taught to shut their mouths and forget about
anything “other than their work” and collecting their check.

Imagine a research scientist who normally would make $45K a year who is instead
making $250K per year with all the benefits of a major corporate entity, which includes
medical, bonuses, vacations, training, further education, travel, per diems, etc. Do you
think anyone is going to risk losing that? But most of all, consider that these civilian
federal contract workers have been known to disappear when rules are broken or any
semblances of rumors of dissention reach the security division. And they, the workers,
know damned well that the stories of missing people are not rumors, but actual cases
involving former friends and in some cases loved ones.

To be silenced (permanently) would mean you broke the one cardinal rule of Dulce;
disclosure of any kind. Another scenario is to exhibit any nature of instability, of
character, that can pose a threat of disclosure of the facility. And the workers all know
this. So no one talks.

But getting people to work at Dulce or any other highly secretive facility was not always
a controlled process. And it was harder in the earlier days to ensure you were getting
the right type of individual. But by the early 1960’s it became easier.

Through lessons learned from MKULTRA, the CIA discovered that to control behavior …
to ensure that rules and restrictions are adhered to with unfailingly loyalty … they would
need to establish a process to vet potential candidates through measures which could
expose any unwanted traits (physical, psychological or behavioral).

They only wanted highly qualified people deeply committed to maintaining the Nation’s
security, plus the secrecy of our classified operations and locations. So candidates
chosen for work at sensitive ‘top secret’ installations such as Dulce would be acquired
from a highly selective group of military personnel, people beyond accessibility to
normal military and operative channels.

These are people pooled by special recommendation from a team of top analysts at the
Pentagon called Evaluators. These people perform tasks with an emphasis on
personnel placement through a scientific means of evaluation. The evaluation is
performed after attempts are made to inculcate thoughts and behavior into the
candidates through processes of ‘persistent instruction’. This is the ‘conditioning’ I
mentioned to you earlier.

After a candidate is selected, an Evaluator would begin conditioning by administering a
series of serums combined with a battery of physical assessments and specially designed
interviews to monitor both behavioral and psychological reaction. Today, those who
pass the conditioning process are then entered into a resource pool managed by the
U.S. Army but shared with the Department of Defense called the [50]
“Integrated Total Army Personnel Database (ITAPDB) Portal” … and these operative personnel candidates
can be recalled for ongoing projects at any time.

Back then everything was on paper, and in files. This process was really slow, so to
centralize the pool, it no longer matters what branch of the military the candidates
come from. If they fit the requirement they are entered into a secure and classified
section of ITAPDB accessible to those outside the Army, so long as they come with
proper clearance only given through the Pentagon. And now the candidate’s personnel
info is held within ITAPDB for a finite period of time (usually 10-15 years), or until such
time that they find themselves disqualified from any further consideration.

Dulce is filled with people obtained through this process, as are many other classified
U.S. facilities around the world, underground or not.

Interesting, please continue.

Well, we were told that we were entering into a classified demilitarized zone. The
Brigadier General said an event involving fighting at the installation triggered off a set of
seldom used protocols establishing it immediately as a [51]
DMZ. I thought to myself, “how could there be a DMZ right here in America within our own borders?” I could not believe it … just what the hell was this place? Nothing was making sense. But the
report said that there was a newly formed classified DMZ in place with full military
oversight, and active operations. And the Brigadier General confirmed it. The place was
on high alert.

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User ID: 29876
07-29-2011 12:28 PM

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Post: #8
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
Colonel, with all the information that was given to you, did you feel there was still a
chance that not all items were being disclosed to you?

Oh no … not at all. I felt as if I was being told everything and possibly a little too much
too fast. You see, I had no idea if by chance would be there beyond the 48 hour period,
or if we would ever return to Dulce. But I do remember asking myself, “Why are we
getting so much data?”

Anyhow, we finally made our way to Kirtland AFB. Once we were there we made our
way to the Dulce Facility via helicopter. There was an unimproved road that I later
learned of, which we could have taken to the installation once we reached the town of
Dulce, but this road required high lift off road vehicles and the area was already
completely inaccessible. There were impenetrable blockades being manned by military
personnel just a few miles from the town because of the ongoing events. So no one was
getting anywhere near the Mesa. And the way they orchestrated everything was so
tightly controlled that I do not think that anyone from the surrounding area had a clue
as to what was occurring.

And trying to traverse the areas surrounding the Mesa, even today, is not as easy as one
may think. The hillsides leading up to the Mesa are covered with pocketed areas of
shale and blankets of larger rocks when they are not covered with snow. During dry
months if you can make it up, you’ll find lots of pocketed high-density tree areas
interspersed amongst a large dry area sitting atop the plateau of the Mesa.

I told my wife that if I had to choose a single place to live my final days on earth, it
would northern New Mexico; anywhere between Dulce and Taos. It truly is a beautiful
part of the country. But you still have to be cautious as the whole area represents some
of the roughest terrain in this country. It’s very beautiful, but can come at a cost if you
do not know what the hell you are doing.

Despite the high elevation the area comes with all the dangers of a dry forest coupled
with hot desert like conditions during the summer. Hell, we used to joke that the higher
you were the hotter it got. But the most treacherous aspect would be just that, the
elevation. It’s deceptive, very deceptive. You have a montane desert-like environment,
which means the plateau, like some deserts, is very arid but just during summer months,
because it’s at or just above over 9000 feet. So this means you have much thinner air,
plus you also have the elements of a dangerous and unpredictable rugged rocky
mountainous region; especially due to much of it resting upon fragmentary columnar
basalt, making for a very dangerous climb. That’s why they call it the Desert High-
Terrain. You have both elements.

Because of the arid environment a person hiking up there in the high desert can lose up
to 4 liters per day, and to make matters worse altitude sickness can easily set in at 8000
feet; again, the Dulce Mesa is 9000 feet. Only experienced outdoorsmen, academic
research teams, or the local people themselves (from the Jicarilla Apache Nation) are the only ones capable of surviving up in there for any prolonged amount of time. Again, the dirt roads leading up to the Mesa are unfriendly, just making it very hard to climb
whether on foot or by vehicle.

In any event, someone opted for us not to drive, so instead we were flown in by
helicopter. A decision made to expedite our arrival.

Do you ever go back?

Oh yes. I’ve been back more than a few times, not always on business; for instance,
once in 1994 to meet an old friend to do some fishing. But usually when I go there, it’s
to do some work gathering data. I am retired, but remain active within the periphery of
my intelligence circle because of many reasons. Reasons mostly based on dark business
that occurs there that I cannot in good conscious allow going on without some level of
disclosure. That is the reason why we are talking. I have lots to divulge and I want you
to get it out.

Recently in 2009 I was at Norio Hayakawa’s Dulce Conference. This was in March
of 2009. I was there; in fact I was sitting in my car having coffee when the first of two
helicopters flew over the hotel. Let me tell you, a whole lot of interesting things
happened there. But let me tell you more about 1979 so we stay on track. I’ll get to my
more recent events before we wrap up, I promise.

Excellent … Dulce, let’s continue.

So… the report I held in my hands stated that in 1940 The U.S. Army had discovered a
seven level subterranean facility the size of a small city ‘by chance’, nestled smack dab
in the center of the Archuleta Mesa. This discovery came about when they began
scouting areas of New Mexico for potential sites to house our Atomic development and
testing program.

Didn’t our atomic development start in 1942 with the Manhattan Project?

No. You have to go back a little further than that, to when talks actually began in 1938.
That’s when atomic talks really started; it was by 1939 when FDR called up Lyman
Briggs, a physicist who was in charge of the National Bureau of Standards, to head up
"The Uranium Committee". This was a newly formed state department created to
undertake all nuclear research.

All of this began as a result of the Einstein–Szilárd letter. That’s the letter that set off
a Hellfire Storm in Washington. You see, the letter strongly advised President Roosevelt
to begin our own Atomic development and research efforts because the Nazi’s were
already researching the destructive power of nuclear bombs, and they were far ahead of
everyone else; most importantly, us.

This task was unlike anything else ever handled by our military and government, and
everyone knew that special precautions and steps needed to be taken. At that time
there was no CIA or DoD to coordinate and lead military efforts or intelligence
operations. If you look back, within our government and military, information was very
disparate at best, and already we had begun to see groups creating simultaneous teams
duplicating efforts.

For instance, there was no direction, no management or any control. At one point, no
one knew for a period of time both the Army and Navy each had separate code-breaking
departments (Signals Intelligence Service and OP-20-G) doing the same exact
thing. So, the prevalent concern was that this absolutely could not happen within a
program as sensitive as Atomic development. It had to be conducted under ‘one roof’
and tightly controlled.

Believe it or not, FDR himself made a damned good suggestion to ensure that only one
branch would be running operations. He felt that since talks had already begun as far
back as 1938 on how eventually the United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE)
would take over all real estate acquisition, construction, and maintenance for Army
facilities by 1941; well, he suggested that they be in charge of assisting the scientists
from the Manhattan Project which was already under way as a small research
program; and only them. This made sense because the Army Corps of Engineers had
planes, soldiers and the necessary resources required.

Therefore he mandated that the Army Corps of Engineers alone head up the project to
build up a secret centralized location to facilitate the scientific research of the
Manhattan Project. So as a result, much of the information in the 1940 Dulce reports is
indirectly related to our atomic development program. All of this was occurring many
months before October 9, 1941 when FDR gave the go-ahead for the development of an
atomic weapon. So you see? The Muroc Expedition was already in place, happening
before anyone was aware. We were already ahead of the game.

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Post: #9
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
ok, it's about to get really interesting...

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Post: #10
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
What do you mean by The Muroc Expedition?

That’s right. You would have never heard about them, would you have? No you would
not have … so let me explain.

With the Army Corps of Engineers now in charge of new facility development, they
chose a special detachment of pilots and ground troops from [62]
“Muroc Army Air Field” out in California; which was still called the Muroc Lake Bombing and Gunnery Range at that time. This unit was quickly assembled; assigned the job of finding us a home for
our Atomic development efforts. Sadly, they’ll never receive credit for what they did, or
for what they discovered.

It was the Muroc Expedition who found the subterranean facility mentioned in the
report, but they went off obscurely into history, because after making the greatest
discovery of the Modern Age, many of them were either dead, or re-assigned to
classified positions. Some were discharged. This was a group of men who didn’t know
what the hell they were getting into, and the fact that so many of them died “after” the
discovery event, not during but after the fighting and with no official recognition … well,
it breaks my heart as a soldier and as an American.

Are you saying there was fighting back in 1940 at the Mesa?

Oh yes, the news of the initial fighting upon their discovery of the location really created
a stir back at the Air Field. Eventually false information was given to those directly
affected, families, colleagues, commanding officers, etc. to protect the location and to
preserve Top Secret nature of the findings.

I thought you said that the Army had made the discovery?

They did, don’t get confused. You have to understand, this is before the Air Force was
established. Muroc was an ‘Air Field’ but it was the Army. Back in those days the Army
held oversight of the vast number of pilots in the military. And it wasn’t until September
1947 under the National Security Act that the U.S. Air Force was formed as a new
separate branch of the military. Before that it was the USAAC (U.S. Army Air Corps).
Anyhow, in the report I read that what they found was that the upper levels of this
facility were all but abandoned. The report also indicated that the initial exploration
went forth successfully without incident even once deep inside the facility. Mostly in
part because the soldiers selected were experts in various areas.

This is going to sound very old fashioned by today’s standards, but the unit included
geological experts, a surveyor, several trackers and cave experts; we called them called
Cavers back then, today they’re known as Spelunkers.

Anyhow there were even a few very good sharp shooters on the team. For 1940 this
was sort of an ad-hoc Special Forces unit. The group was formed in order to serve as a
ground unit with experts in various fields to compliment the Pilots flying overhead
determining where in the terrain the expedition team would go next. Everyone was
hand picked at Muroc.

In the military you must be prepared for anything, and when this team was assembled,
they intended it to be as a good team as you could create to help overcome the rough
terrain of New Mexico. But by chance, unbeknownst to whomever assembled the team;
they also created a unit that would be a pretty good fighting force, as they would soon
find out. And you know what? There couldn’t have been a better group chosen. The
valor and bravery, and even the foolishness I read of in the reports from 1940 really tell
me a lot about those men. Sometimes when I think about what I read, I almost felt as if
I was there.

Colonel, what did they find inside the facility?

In the reports prepared by the soldiers (who were told to record what they had found),
they discovered that the uninhabited upper levels held many of what appeared to be
ancient artifacts interspersed among modern looking but unfamiliar machines.
Some walls were covered with RADAR-like screens, and there also appeared to be
individual personnel stations, but mysteriously not large enough for any human to fit in;
and some fitted with various sorts of cryptography machines, or what appeared to
possibly be electric typewriters. All of these were connected to the flat RADAR-like

Hell, they didn’t have a clue. The soldiers were not sure what any of it was or what it
was used for. One soldier wrote, “Everything we are finding is highly sophisticated in
design; way beyond our latest military electronic equipment. It looks to be German,

The commanding officer wrote that in each room there appeared to be devices similar
to “electronic television sets, maybe German in appearance”, but immense in size and
very flat, covering most every wall near any of the equipment or electric machines. At
fist he thought these were windows but he could see that these somehow offered a
view or a screen to the many stations positioned in front of them. And the surface was
smooth as glass; in fact it was glass but had a liquid of some sort inside it, which seemed
impossible because it was paper thin.

In the same report it also stated that there were thick black cables with hundreds of
individual lighted wires inside, as fine as hair. They appeared to be like glass but were
physically malleable without causing damage, even when twisting or bending them.
Extruding from the ends of the wires, the bundles of exposed glass wires with lighted
ends, seemed to be receiving transmitted signals of some kind. There was a pattern to
the blinking, but they weren’t sure from what it was or from where it was coming.
Upon following the source of the cables showed that they came from deep beneath the
upper levels; many were severed seemingly removed through a rough extraction
process, almost as if someone had cut them. What was strange was that indication by
the surrounding evidence pointed to the equipment being hundreds of years old,
possibly, and left undisturbed for that long; the curious ones asked, “How could there
be a power source?”

And this … this is where it becomes really strange. An area of the report that had me
questioning not only if what I was reading (was real), and what had me questioning,
“Why was I going to this place?”

You see, in addition to all the modern looking machinery, the report stated that just past
the cavern entrance and nearly several hundred feet inside they had found American
Indian blades, discernable from the leather sheaths and cloth wrapping style upon
handles made from bone, they also found over 100 arrows, bows and quivers … each
dated to about the late 1800s. And this corroborated the few Colt Revolvers and
Winchester repeater rifles they found, still in perfect usable condition.

Lying nearby there was both unused and spent ammunition, strewn about as if
something violent had occurred in there. The report stated that the soldiers wanted to
touch the artifacts, but the commanding officer having the sense to preserve what they
found for the experts, ordered them to not touch anything under threat of courtmartial.
The commanding officer wrote that nothing was right about this location. He felt
everything seemed out of place; almost as if discovering anachronisms with each new
room they entered. Futuristic machines, but easily capable of being hundreds of years
old based on the way webs, dirt and dust had accumulated on the devices; it didn’t
make any sense.

Once deeper inside the facility he also wrote that they found human remains, some
apparently were American Indians easily identified by their traditional clothing. But he
stated that no Indian he knew dressed like that anymore. This was stuff that he swore
that mid 19th century Apache warriors wore. At first they thought they could place the
find to at least the 1840’s, but later they determined it was probably closer to the
1870’s because of the Colt revolvers they found.

The commanding officer wrote in the report, “What were Apache warriors doing here
and who were they fighting, and for what reason?” He wrote that he told everyone to
pull back and setup camp at the end of the first day of exploring the caverns inside and
underneath the Mesa. That night they slept without incident.
The next day they made their way deeper into the caverns and noticed that the natural
formations on the walls began to give way to a more structured and uniform patterns of
large flat walls, made of some metallic matted substance. Interspersed between these
segments were smaller segments where the walls had a smooth black layer of what
appeared to be highly polished-down conglomerate rock; almost granite-like in
appearance, but different in that it had both a liquid and illuminant property to it. No
one had ever seen such a material before. When you pressed your hand up against it,
an illuminated print remained for some time.

Some soldiers began writing with their fingers before the commanding officer ordered
them to stop. What also mystified them were the rectangular windows with strange
fluorescent purple lighting; almost lavender in color, and ice cold to the touch.

And then if it couldn’t get any stranger, they began to find diminutive human-like
remains, with enlarged heads and very large eye sockets, many of them strewn about
the area where the cavern began to transition from natural cavern to a fabricated
structure. All around the first areas surveyed, there were signs of a struggle and serious
fire fighting, as they found more weapons, dead bodies and carbon blasts on the walls
from having been shot at. But from how long ago the fighting occurred was anyone’s
guess. No one was sure exactly. The American Indian bodies were further out; but
these new small human-like remains were being found much deeper into the facility.
The officer wrote that “Maybe someone had chased them down up to this point in the
cave-corridor and then killed them.” To know for sure, he wrote that they were going to
need expert help.

As they began to find rooms, more discoveries of equipment was made. These rooms
like the others were also covered in cobwebs, dirt, and dust, indicating possible decades
of lying there completely undisturbed.

Nothing made sense, so the commanding officer in charge of the scouting expedition
had enough awareness to call someone else in, a personal friend of his back at Muroc, a
highly educated officer with a degree in Archeology who possessed a very methodical
scientific approach to every aspect of his work.

Within two days he was flown in and with his help he was able to catalog and expertly
remove everything with both precision and academic prudence, thus preserving all the
artifacts along with meticulous documentation. From what I gathered from the report,
the commanding officer himself was pretty astute and well aware of what he had
discovered. His decision to place an archeology expert in charge of the site recovery
operation proved to be an incredibly crucial decision, vital to later successes in our own
technological advancements.

As I kept reading I learned that in some rooms they found super thin metallic sheets
which they called tablets, containing writing. These had writings which were etched on
to the surface with machine like precision. Large paper thin metal sheets of these
tablets, acting as some advanced form of writing surface used to document something.

The newly arrived officer’s team of scientific experts noted that the writing found on the
tablets resembled cuneiform script from ancient Mesopotamia, particularly [66]
Akkadian cuneiform. However these figures seemed to be much more compact in
design and contained many differences not found in the known cuneiform.
The commanding officer wrote that it was these men that began to call these writing
sheets ‘tablets’, because of the similarity of the writing on the stone tablets discovered
during archeological expeditions in Iraq during the 1840s. But these tablets and the
cuneiform were easily seen as highly version, well beyond the complexity of the
Mesopotamian finds. And they observed how no living person could have done this
work by hand. These finds were set apart from their archeological counterparts found
in Iraq.

In the report it stated that all the equipment (machines) found by the soldiers had the
same style of cuneiform but which included some different unidentifiable markings -
symbols; and there were a few other distinct types of writing styles found elsewhere, in
other rooms too.

I later learned that after some years of research by the U.S. Army and various Academic
experts, that they would fully translate the language and confirm that it was a highly
advanced form of cuneiform inscription but with many variations and much more
complex attributes than seen in Akkadian cuneiform, and it seemed to have an
alphabetic structure more similar to the complexity of the later [67]
Ugaritic alphabet.

The markers for dating the cuneiform seem to jump back and forth in time, but its roots
were the same. Again, there was this strange aspect to nearly everything found. And
the writing was not without its own mysteries.

It would later be determined that the Akkadian and Ugaritic civilizations used adopted
forms of this language, and while crude in their own adaptations, very functional and
seemingly to be directly from the language root discovered in the caverns. But how
they got these was another question.

Within a few years time, both academic and military linguistics teams would eventually
develop the ability to fully translate the language, and the Army would fund the creation
of a translation device. The device was typewriter-like in physical design and it
outputted the advanced cuneiform script in exact translations. A feat truly advanced for
its time. But with regard to translation devices, that would all change dramatically just a
decade or so later once we gained the full trust of the inhabitants.

So in addition to this, their goal was to attempt reverse engineering of all the equipment
they found, and to communicate with whoever was down there. Through the
translation of the language, they deciphered the metal tablets, of which so many had
been found nearly everywhere in the caverns and corridors which led to rooms.

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Post: #11
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
Colonel, who are the inhabitants?

This is complicated as there were several groups we learned of, but only which one ever
occupied the caverns. At first we did not understand why, but with time it all became

Now, with the ability to read their writings, the names of the subterranean inhabitants
and other associated groups were discovered as was their entire history. Over time our
researchers began to understand exactly what had happened at this location,
understanding who these inhabitants and other groups were, and who among them was
outside of the caverns. And we also learned how and why with all of their technology
they were seemingly trapped here.

Do you mean outside, as in … on the surface?

Exactly; the lives of one group extends beyond the sub terrain. The other group is
everywhere, concentrated around various communities, and with a specific agenda.
There were a total of four groups; today there are only two.

Firs are the Progenitors; aliens from the Sirius system. Second are the Anu (Anunna,
possibly the same as the Anunnaki from Ancient Sumer); their genetically enhanced
offspring the Progenitors. Third is the Austra Albus; the offspring of the Anu, and finally
the Greys; not related genetically to the Progenitor lineage. If you will, there is a fifth
group … modern humans; genetically modified for a specific reason.

Colonel… Greys? Are you saying there are aliens in Dulce?

Yes; Greys beneath Dulce and Alien-Human hybrids up on the surface. Two groups

Where did they come from, and how did the Greys get inside Dulce? I mean … why
are they there?

The first historical reference discovered was to a group of beings representing a creator
class simply called the Progenitors, a powerfully advanced group of distant celestial
origin. This group was often referred to by the others as simply the Gods, the Creators
or Progenitors.

The origins of the Progenitors begins in [68] Zeta Reticuli, but for reasons unknown to the
Greys, the Progenitors en masse left for the Sirius System. And the reason for that
decision is not known; however, what is known … is that the Progenitors migrated and
occupied two planets in the [69] Sirius System from that point on. And this is where the
Greys do begin to possess a clearer picture of their creators. For millions of years the
Progenitor race lived in Sirius before deciding to expand and investigate a newly
discovered solar system rich with compatible resources; ours.

Thus the progenitor group left the Sirius System for our own; the planet [70]
Mars specifically. Although desolate, Mars held a rich compatible atmosphere full of space
for colonization. They settled Mars and thrived for 100,000 years. At the end of that
time period, a catastrophic event occurred so they abandoned Mars for Earth. When
they arrived to Earth it was not ideal; the environment and Earths atmosphere was all
wrong, so they began to die.

To continue their lineage they created a genetically enhanced offspring to cope with
Earth’s hostile environment; the Anu.

They also created a servant caste for the Anu called the Eloah. In the tablets the Eloah
were also called the Achromatic and Formicidae. These would be your typical Greys.
They were created to provide the Anu with a workforce gathering resources required to
live comfortably. The Eloah (Greys) where also created to oversee the indigenous
primitive earth population of early humans.

For reasons unknown the Anu became afflicted with the same genetic predisposition
that cased a weakness in the immune system against the harsh ever changing
environment of Earth. To continue survival they needed to create a new better
genetically enhanced successor group.

This new group they called the Austra Albus, also called Illumina, Light Bringers, and the
Immaculate Ones. These names are based on numerous translations of references
found in the tablets. The word Austra is a phonetic translation, we have no definition
for it, nor do we know the origin. Albus means light or white.

With the Anu now dying … the Austra Albus were now the primary group in the
hierarchy, and the last hope.

Before the Anu died off they warned the Austra Albus of the threat the Eloah (Greys)
could one day pose; and to prepare for it ... to never allow their numbers to become too
large, and to restrict their interaction with the indigenous populace as they might
become too powerful to control one day. These words would be very prophetic. And
soon the Anu died off.

With some critical flaw, and incompatibility to thrive within the earth’s environment,
the Austra Albus also became sick. To survive, they would have to do the unthinkable.
Interbreed with the primitive indigenous populace. But it was their only chance. To
avoid extinction they were forced to integrate with the earliest vestiges of modern

This succeeded. Finally, their quest to live on Earth was realized but through the
integration with the indigenous inhabitants. Their lineage was no longer pure; a
devastating affect to their psyche. By this time the Greys also became stronger.

The writings describe the Eloah or Greys as a newly created genetic sub-species of scant
Progenitor home world life forms, with no Progenitor DNA themselves; created by the Progenitors, at the same time as the Austra Albus, through a selection of predetermined traits extracted from alien life forms.

This group was made to serve as a demigod for Homo sapiens, to be used as a method
of control over humans, and as a means to avoid interaction (with) humans, although
this prejudice changed.

I don’t want to stay on this area for too much longer, but here is the bottom line. The
Austra Albus who are a human-alien offspring of the Anu … it’s understood that today
they are a secret cabal of select alien-human lineages, and very powerful. They are a
tightly controlled bloodline (of alien origin) stretching back thousands of years. Various
people who today represent the powers-that-be amongst the ranks of humanity are
members of this group.

These are your Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (in England, also known as the [75]
Windsor) all of whom descended from strict marriage based on familial-lineage and breeding protocols, of a select lineage base to preserve the lines. All because of one reason; blood.

From the special blood attained through females of the lineage (due to certain
hormones) it helps them to sustain their ability to withstand the environment;
additionally, they also use secretions of pituitary and pineal glands (from captured
modern humans) which also acts as strong drug helping to keep them from succumbing
to mental instability caused by environmental stresses and unwanted chemical

Sounds strange, but this is exactly what we learned from the Greys writings; and the
Dissident Greys themselves.

Colonel, how do you know these are families are related to this Austra Albus group?

The Dissident Greys have warned us about which families on the surface are all Austra
Albus. Those are just some of them, and also because the older writings tell us the
original lines of Austra Albus and how now they are a strictly controlled lineage.
And the last and most modern of the tablets we discovered created by Dissident Greys
just some 150 hundreds of years ago include data telling us which families are most
prominent. The Dissident Greys seem to have compiled lots of data using traitor Austra
Albus operatives for centuries now. We’ve never met one, but we know that they do

Our own intelligence also tells us that select members of each family have been
identified within the ranks of various shadow organizations operating today. This means
they operate within many of the secretive groups that ultimately culminate into today’s
global elitist ranks.

What is also important to realize is that over the many years, the alien element has
since been 99% eradicated and the remaining lines are now almost pure humans. But in
addition to their knowledge and power, they also retain one genetic predisposition that
can kill them. This is why they are seemingly so exclusionary and secretive. They have
to be.

Are there any other prominent American families?


Colonel, with all the families you are mentioning … I have to ask you, “Are the Austra
Albus the Illuminati?”

Maybe … look, I don’t know who the Illuminati are; however, they represent a
powerful cabal, a secret organization that is based on bloodlines and mysterious origins,
so the Austra Albus very well could be.

But I am not going to make that call. All I work with is the intelligence I am provided. All
I am saying is that the Greys have informed us that certain families … the world’s most
wealthy and influential are Austra Albus.

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Post: #12
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
am about half way through posting. will get the rest done later, if there is interest.

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Post: #13
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
And why are the Eloah called Formicidae; which is a reference to ants, is it because of
their appearance?

No. The Eloah or Greys were not referred to as Formicidae for their appearance as
you might assume. Rather, the writings say that it is for their behavioral traits which
were programmed into their genome, all within the context of their socialization and
protectorate nature. It is how the Progenitors created them to be.

Also, what we know is that the Greys are in fact ‘alien’. Their genetics are not from here
nor do they come from the Progenitor lineage.

Their genetic make-up comes directly from the Progenitor race’s home planet. Today
however, the species represents a genetic integration and transformation from multiple
sources. The tablets make no attempt to hide the fact that the Greys have, to some
extent, shared levels of incorporated alien-animal and even alien-Insect DNA, but again,
no Progenitor DNA.

Their writings record that even we (modern humans) were modified by the Austra
Albus. But whereas their genetic base comes from the Progenitor aliens, ours comes
from theirs, which was already heavily modified. And it is what separates us from all
other life forms on Earth. We received critical elements of the Austra Albus genome;
and for very specific reasons.

One more important note is that the archeological teams determined that many sets of
tablets fell in to separate social categories and in to two primary segments of the alien
chronology. There was a pre-war collection of tablets, and a post-war collection. We
learned that about 10,000 years ago there was a revolt against the Austra Albus by the
Eloah, the Greys. Also, and unbelievably, the chronological calculations made by our
researchers show that the Greys may have been living in various North American cave
systems from as far back as 26,000 years ago.

What prompted the revolt?
It resulted from both treachery and betrayal within their groups. As it would seem they
are not so different from us after all.

This is simply incredible.

That, it is…

You are saying that there is a history extending back thousands of years, maybe a
hundred to two hundred thousand years, with ties to the ancient Near East,
culminating to a discovery in the caverns of Dulce; right here in the Southwest?

That I am; and no, the chronology is closer to 1,000,000 years.

Look … everything I learned shocked me to my core and made me reevaluate our
history, religions, and selves. You see, there is much more

(At this point he stopped talking, didn’t respond with another word, just a glance. Then
he left for a few moments to get up and refill his coffee, when he returned he lit another
cigarette; after a few minutes we reconvened to continue our interview.)

Colonel, I do want to talk more about the two species, but can you elaborate on the
fighting which you said occurred back in 1940? In our phone conversation you
mentioned the discovery but you also mentioned a hostile engagement.

Yes. In 1940 The Muroc Expedition, during their discovery created a base camp inside
the top level of the facility they found. They also setup a surface level camp above the
Mesa tunnel entrance. Now remember, all of this comes directly from the piles of
reports that I had access to.

The report of the Muroc Expedition was very descriptive and stated many events …
within days of setting up their camp, they began to explore further. The newly arrived
scientific team would ask for as much material as could be extracted from the caverns.
No one knew what this place was and if they would ever be back.

As they made their way deeper into the tunnels and down to the second lower level
they had begun reporting sightings of people (so they thought), they called them
inhabitants. The soldiers, by virtue of lugging around all their gear, could not help but
make their presence known to whoever it was down there. Even as they tried to
remain quite and out of sight, they could sense that someone or something was
successfully tracking the soldiers. But there was no effort to interact with whoever it
was … not yet.

It was reported that some tunnels seemed to be endless, as far as they could see. The
descriptions said that the environment had low levels of subdued colored lighting, with
a purplish hue created from some unknown chemo-luminescence all along the upper
and lower sections of the walls. They could see entrances to unused side corridors
(other smaller tunnels) discernable by the shape of the emitted lighting near those

The soldiers noted that the lower you got the hotter and more humid the tunnels had
become. The walls were wet from condensation, not so much in the upper levels, but
extremely moist, even dripping in the lower levels. They said that the lower level
tunnels smelled a bit like a factory that made industrial chemicals. According to one
entry written by a soldier, although the smell was bad it was mostly obscured by the
humidity which rendered their sinuses torpid.

All the reports stated that there were incidents of the mysterious inhabitants peering
from around corners to observe the soldiers, usually from a great distance; almost like
shadows. This lasted for several weeks but there was never real interaction, thus
allowing the group to collect and remove as many artifacts as they could.

Several of the reports independently wrote about how they were shipping these items
back to Muroc Air Field from makeshift dirt Air Strips being used near the town of
Alamogordo. As the artifacts where transported back to Muroc, new equipment and
supplies were coming in. The artifacts were being cataloged and placed in a specially
demarked area of a hanger operating as a warehouse for later study.

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User ID: 29876
07-29-2011 01:24 PM

Posts: 3,955

Post: #14
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
Do you mean Holloman AFB near Alamogordo?

No, Alamogordo Air Field wasn’t built until 1942 after all of this had already occurred.
And it wasn’t known as Holloman AFB until they renamed it 1947. There was already
the Albuquerque Army Air Base in place as early as 1941, but Muroc was the operating
hub for the Army’s intelligence operations dating back then, and even up to today.

Isn’t it interesting that Muroc is now Edwards AFB, the same site that provides oversight
to the Groom Lake installation, another place (like Dulce) that supposedly “does not
exist”? Speaking of air bases, ‘Albuquerque Army Air Base’ was renamed to
Kirtland Army Air Field, in 1942.

That’s now Kirtland AFB?

Yes, it’ snow Kirtland AFB. Anyhow, in 1940 we were still searching for potential
locations to conduct our Atomic development and testing. New Mexico already having
certain facilities in place, coupled with its remoteness, was the perfect choice.

But Colonel, what about the tunnels, can we go back to what occurred with the Muroc
Expedition Team?

Yes. So, several of the soldiers had been tasked with writing everything down to have
several perspectives of the expedition, as it occurred. This was a common practice back
then. There were no laptops, camcorders, or digital voice recorders back in those days.
So the report incorporated all the entries from the journal takers, writers. And
essentially what we ended up with was a stirring account of some heavy interaction,
types of engagement that no one expected.

According to the entries form the commanding officer, they managed to hold camp
without incident, accidents, injuries while exploring for a while now. It had been three
weeks in the caverns and corridors, and everyone was getting real comfortable. But as
the discovery and collection of more artifacts continued, they found themselves
traversing much deeper and deeper in to what they now realized were the lower levels.
And the walls continued to just get more sophisticated in design as they got lower.
By the time they had cleared out the second level and began moving into the third, they
began to encounter what seemed to be noises from unknown sources. First it was a
sound static or hissing noise that would last for several minutes at a time. This lasted
for a few hours. Then a mysterious super fast beeping sound would appear out of
nowhere as if someone had deliberately set off the sound right behind you. No one
could determine how this was happening as there was no one else down there, they

And finally, as they got deeper into recesses of the third level down, an eerily terrifying
sound of would begin to manifest then quickly disappear within the frame of a second.
It would come and go, just like that; very loud and disturbing, unnerving the soldiers.
This lasted for a couple of hours.

Then the sound began to last for several seconds. The echo in the corridor made the
sound even more terrifying. By the time the emanating sounds would reach the five to
ten second ranges in length, the soldiers could then tell that it was collage of combined
screams and cries, from adults and children, as if to warn the soldiers. These continued
on for hours on end.

The report mentioned that over a time span of two days listening to these sounds, one
of the officers was able to conclude that what they were hearing was a recording … as if
from a ‘phonograph’ being played repeatedly. He began to take note of various sounds
he swore he had already heard before. He recorded down the times and any
phonetically writable and recognizable occurrences he could. And just like that, like
clockwork, on each 90 minute mark the sounds would seemingly repeat. He had
created three patterns created of various sounds over three hours, and he had a fellow
solider confirm his findings.

This placed the commanding officer at ease. It seemed that the horrible sounds were a
recording used to deter the soldiers from moving forward, or deeper inside the tunnels.
The description of the sounds was one of female humans suffering, interspersed with
horrifying cries from children, and even men; terrifying noise. Two men had to be
escorted out of the caves and back up to the surface because they couldn’t handle the

“But the sounds, these sounds are of people; just how the hell did they get these
recordings?” is what one officer seemingly kept writing over and over in his journal.
Obviously, to some extent, the sound had gotten to him too. You could begin to tell
that the men writings indicated that they were very agitated.

But those that could continue to write unaffected, noted that some of the recordings
were sounds made by people, but not in any language recognizable to them. In any
event, it was working as this was irritating and growing on the nerves of the men.
But then, just like that … it stopped.

The stop coincided exactly when the orders were given by the commanding officer to
pack up and begin vacating the lower third tunnel back upwards towards the entrance;
as if the inhabitants knew the soldiers were leaving. But the report stated that two
soldiers intent on going lower, and without permission from the commanding officer,
caused what amounted to a deadly encounter over a period of the next three days.
What I am about to tell you comes from the account as written by one of the scientific
team officers who interviewed the lone returning soldier.

It began when two men crawled down into the darkly lit tunnel area where the sounds
had been coming from. They wanted to know who had been doing this, and why. As
they got closer the walls were began dripping with condensation from high levels of
humidity and combined heat, almost unbearable for the two men. And it got worse as
they traversed downward and further in.

As they made their way deeper in, they began to hear voices; they were the voices
coming from the inhabitants. This scared the hell out of the two soldiers. The report
described their language as a combination of whispers and clicking noises, similar to
some of the exact sounds played in those unnerving recordings used earlier as a

While they continued on, the soldiers happened upon a group of inhabitants just past a
round-shaped doorway near the top of one of the side tunnel which they had snuck
into. Before being noticed, one soldier said that they witnessed up to 50 inhabitants in
this one very large room. There were tables with what appeared to be lab equipment,
and they seemed to be working, performing experiments or medical procedures on
other inhabitants or animals; things not fully recognizable to the soldiers.

In the heavy atmosphere of fear and eminent trepidation, so much had been going on
that it took a few minutes for the soldiers to even realize that what they were seeing
were not humans but something else; diminutive sized people with enlarged heads and
huge eyes. This scared the hell out of them. They were frozen with fear and could
barely talk to one another at that moment of realization.

On one side of this large room there was a wall with screens like more of the ‘electronic
televisions’ like they had seen in the higher levels, but with vivid colors and showing
images of their base camp up on the first level. They were being monitored. They
realized that these things could see everything that they had been doing since they

The soldiers tried to make their way back out of the tiny corridor leading up to this
vantage point that allowed them to peer in. But as they began to leave, trying not to be
noticed, one of them dropped his pistol which he held in his hand. He picked it back up,
but that commotion alerted the entire room to their presence.

As they began to quickly vacate, one of the soldiers was grabbed and dragged into the
room screaming. The escaping solder pulled out his pistol and began to run as fast as he
could. He could hear pistol shots being fired repeatedly from the other soldier who was
now back in that room. He must have been shooting at those things.

As he ran, he heard inhabitant voices right behind him which only helped him to dig
deep and find the strength to run even faster, but they were coming after him and
gaining ground. As he gained ground on the upper level he began to scream out. He
said that he had screamed as loud as he could towards his group, but he knew he was
still too far out to be heard by anyone.

Still too far in the distance, he could however begin to see the distant lights from his
base camp emerge. The other soldiers had packed up and were wondering where the
two missing soldiers were, waiting to give them hell for making them stay longer. The
soldiers at base camp continued to pack up and await further orders before making
their way back up to the surface. They were oblivious to the screams from the escaping

He said that as he ran, he screamed and began firing his weapon behind him hoping to
kill whoever was chasing him. His shots finally alerted his group to his presence, and
they being startled by the shooting, began firing in his direction. Even as friendly bullets
zipped right by his head, he cared less about getting hit and more about being captured
by these things.

What he had seen terrified him. The commanding officer wrote in the report that the
soldier, upon reaching the group, yelled his head off screaming in utter terror. Before
the soldier even realized he had made it back successfully, he was surrounded by fellow
soldiers, pissed off at him for going out on his own. They in turn were screaming at him,
“What the hell are you doing?” they said. “Why are you shooting?” and “What the hell
is wrong with you?” they shouted at the returning soldier.

“What are you doing to me?” the escaped soldier belted. “Let go of me; let me go god
damn it!” he continued. The commanding officer hurried over to the group telling them
to break it up and explain what was happening.

“Can’t you see what’s behind me, look!” he shouted. Just then, one of the soldiers
murmured, “What the hell is that?”

And in unison, they all turned towards the direction that the soldier was looking to see a
wave of inhabitants with weapons headed in their direction. Everyone grabbed for their
weapons and began taking cover behind the larger equipment, and some soldiers began
to overturn wide metal tables located inside the cavernous area, where they had setup
camp; positioning the tables as fast as they could to take cover.

The commanding officer shouted, “Everyone … no firing, no god damned firing of
weapons, is that understood?” he continued, “Do not fire, just take cover and wait until
I give an order; got it?”

The men continued taking cover and loading their weapons, packing ammunition. And
the commanding officer began ordering his communications specialist to radio for help,
“Send for help now; send our position to the surface and get me some reinforcements
down here ASAP. Tell them we are encountering hostile inhabitants.”

In the report it stated that the inhabitants moved in a slow and disorganized formation
once they began to reach the soldiers. All of the inhabitants were quite small; but some
appeared taller within their group, while others were much shorter. There was no exact
size to these things. The inhabitants had somewhat human-looking bodies, but
something was odd about their skin.

Their faces … they couldn’t make out their faces. And from the distance you could see
their weapons begin to light up with a green fluorescent colored glow, what would later
be described as a chemo-luminescence affect upon arming the weapon. They learned
this by retrieving and studying one of the weapons after the incident.

But this strange lighting terrified the soldiers as they had never seen anything like this.
The commanding officer had enough sense to immediately recognize an advantage. He
shouted to his men that this would work against the inhabitants. In the dark tunnel
these lighted weapons would serve as targets.

As they got closer the tunnel grew quieter, except for the clicking noises which became
more pronounced and faster. They were communicating with one another.

The commanding officer could now give orders without shouting as his own men had
also calmed down. All eyes were on their commander, giving him their full trust. He
had ordered all lights turned off. Two of the soldiers, the snipers, had been equipped
with prototype night-scopes that the Army had been evaluating for purchase from [77]
AEG back in 1936 before tensions had seriously risen with Germany.

This was an advantage the commanding officer sought, and why he had ordered all their
lights be immediately turned off (to the dismay of some soldiers). He knew that with his
two sharp shooters at hand, using the night-scopes, coupled with the lighted weapons
of the hostile inhabitants … well, he knew that they could possibly prevail.

The soldiers, most of them, were gathering their composure as began to conceal their
position with silence, making no movement whatsoever. Because it was now darker and
quite impossible for the men to see, they listened intently for the commanding officers

“Wait for it, just wait a few more seconds…” whispered the commander.
Once the inhabitants had reached to about twenty yards away from their camp
perimeter, their weapons lighted up the room, so with a real calm voice and a simple
gesture of pointing his now visible two fingers towards the inhabitants, the commanding
officer gave out the order, “Fire…”

A couple of soldiers jumped forward and blasted their way to the front encountering the
inhabitants. They managed to hit a few, spraying bullets in all directions before getting
hit with small glowing blasts from the inhabitant’s weapons leaving large gashes in the
men’s bodies, glowing liquefied areas where they had been hit. This scared the hell out
of the rest of them, but they fought on. It was noticed that the inhabitants would not
move forward beyond a certain area which led directly into the perimeter of the men.

This behavior gave the men an advantage. The metal tables which they hid behind
seemed impervious to the inhabitant’s weapons; they could simply not be damaged.
But the large areas of stockpiled equipment they planned to take were being blasted to
hell. Those men quickly realized that they need to get out of there and behind the
metal tables. One soldier who was stuck behind of quickly disappearing equipment
decided to forgo diving behind a metal table and decided to confront the inhabitants
head on. He sprayed them killing several instantly, and then went hand to hand with
one of the larger inhabitants. This creature was ferocious and was tearing the man to
shreds not using his weapon, as if deciding to torture the soldier rather than killing him

As they fought the soldier began to gain the upper hand as his fellows began to target
that creature and hit him successfully several times. But these shots did not stop the
inhabitant from grabbing the soldier and pulling him into a corridor. Once out of sight
you could hear the soldier scream like mad and fight hard. Within what seemed to be
forever, which in reality was only half a minute at most; the soldier reappeared and had
the inhabitant’s weapon in his hand.

He began firing from behind the inhabitants, and the soldiers began to take cover as
blasts began to spray their area. Somehow the solider knew how to use this damned
weapon and he killed quite a few before making his way back to the group. The
inhabitants and soldiers fought over a three hour period before it finally ended.

With the new weapon, many inhabitants were slaughtered quite easily, with only a
handful of soldiers being killed or injured, mostly those who fought near the front line.
It was suspected that the inhabitants thought the soldiers would be similarly equal
opponents to the earlier combatants that they had faced, probably encountering the
same types of weapons and tactics from the time period, but what they had not
factored was that this group was a highly trained military unit with long range automatic
weapons, comprised of men who were disciplined fighters, trained to kill Nazis with no

Following their commanding officer’s orders, they won convincingly. Many of the other
inhabitant’s weapons were recovered, and the only living inhabitant, a severely injured
one, was being observed by the soldiers who tried to communicate with it for several
hours, slapping and punching it, before they were ordered to finally just kill the damned

This was the entry that surprised me the most from the report of this incident. The
commanding officer had shown a strong resolve throughout this whole ordeal,
maintaining a strong will for the sake of carefully recovering and documenting
everything with scientific prudence. But at the loss of his men, and seeing the dead
being carted away, I believe his inner-soldier gave way to his emotions. So the lone
living inhabitant captive never stood a chance of living. I’m sure that later, his
intellectual side would have felt bad over losing such a strange specimen.
After the last killing, some soldiers noted that they witnessed many inhabitants retreat,
with some turning away as soon as fighting began. The behavior observed was strange
too, as if initially these inhabitants did not expect there to be a real fight at all. But the
minute bullets were fired in rapid succession, many fled. And it was noticed that those
which did flee seemed to be without weapons to being with, and that their attire was
different from those that had stayed, almost as if wearing lab coats.
After the 3 hours of fighting ended, the men grabbed their dead and just the essential
items they needed … including a few more important looking artifacts; and especially
the weapons from the dead inhabitants.
“We got the hell out of there taking as much as we could” was written in the report by
the commanding officer. He had indicated that some soldiers had recommended that
they take advantage of their win and go deeper into the tunnel, but the commanding
officer decided against it, until they could analyze everything that had occurred and
determine who they hell it was they were fighting. The officer ordered that just three
inhabitant bodies be taken back to Muroc. He told the soldiers to find the least
damaged corpses and to bag them.

Later when they reached the surface there was a feeling of relief and safe haven;
somehow instinctively they just knew that the inhabitants would not follow. The
surface team asked about the engagement and began to take a head count of who
made it and who did not, and they began documenting the stories from the returning
soldiers. The dead were all accounted for.

Then it began, there were reported claims of some unknown species who some soldiers
said appeared to be a human with a large head. Some said they thought they weren’t
human at all in appearance, and others even said they thought they were no taller than
four feet and had grey-orange skin with large black eyes, some with small tufts of wispy
hair. Some were just grey with no hair at all. There were slight but recognizable
differences among these creatures. Upon later analysis, it was determined that species
encountered during the fighting was the Eloah Formicidae (the Greys) as described in
the historical tablets.

The Army would have recalled the unit immediately back to Muroc, but the reported
technologies they were finding down below were simply too important to be
disregarded. And not everything had been collected, plus command back a Muroc
wanted as much as they could recover. So one final series of exploration down to the
two safer levels took place before eventually sealing up the entrance they had found,
and cordoning off the entire area as a classified military jurisdiction. There was no more
fighting, just an understanding that we were going to go down there, and kill anything
that moved, if necessary. Something tells me that at that time the inhabitants now
knew this as well. Things remained quite for sometime.

Today as I look back at the success of the campaign in 1940 as opposed to the
devastating failure of the 1979 event, it tells me how much the inhabitants had
progressed… as if planning, so much so that they would fight with better success the
next time. The bottom line here is the 1940 group had far superior armament than their
Apache predecessors, thus they caught the inhabitants by surprise.

Despite that, the report said that the Apaches had also fought well, killing many of the
Greys based on the number of bodies they found. The evidence also showed that their
earlier encounter with the Greys had them outnumbered by 1 to 10. The belief is that
the Apaches would have prevailed had they just slightly better numbers during their
fight. One has to wonder if they had how that would have changed things today.
Because some analysts speculate that some Apaches made it out alive from their
engagement with the Greys.

Because of that assumption, back then in the 1940s the army allocated personnel to
meet with local Native American people to ask about events or stories where men had
not returned from the Mesa area. Surprisingly, some of the Native Americans told of
stories relating to their sacred texts (stories of legends) recalling encounters between
people and monsters that live beneath the Archuleta Mesa, thousands of years before.
Now isn’t that Interesting?

But the Jicarilla don’t talk too much about anything. And you cannot blame them for
this. Getting messages across through telling a story or recalling an event (traditional or
personal) is done in a different manner, and in great contrast to outsiders whose frame
of mind is a “get to the point” attitude. If you don’t show respect to the Jicarilla, you
won’t get any in return. You have to learn to communicate in a civil and respectful
manner before the people will open up to you. Those who learned how to respect
“Storytelling” learned a great amount of knowledge. And these individuals succeeded in

One thing I personally learned was that whenever I spoke to a Jicarilla Elder, it was
common practice to engage with respect as to listen intently. I attended private
meetings with certain Elders, who would from memory recall with exact detail, various
stories from the Sacred Texts. The most important of which were the Myths and
Legends, of Wars and Hunting but especially of Trickster Stories. These were so
important to understand. The elders would open with a short prayer and close with a
ceremony after which I would always offer a small gift as a sign of respect for sharing
their offering.

After time I earned the respect of my new friends and they trusted me enough to tell
me of many things; UFO sightings over the Mesa, Greys who were seen at night, and
even abductions of entire vehicles with passengers in tow. I learned a lot. The Jicarilla
people have more to tell on the subject of UFOs and Greys than any other group on
Earth. That has already been proven. Second to them are the [78]
Dropa of the northern Tibetan Plateau. But getting to them is far more difficult.

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Frigg Stuyvesant
Registered User
User ID: 35088
07-29-2011 01:26 PM

Posts: 15,015

Post: #15
RE: Dulce Insider Interview
Love to read it..


Cui Bono?
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