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**Ahriman** · (This post was last modified: 04-18-2012 06:47 AM by Ahriman.)

Luvapottamus Wrote:

Ahriman Wrote:
There are 3 main branches of buddism. Three main branches of Islam. Christianity has a plethora of denominations. Hinduism has various forms. Hell you even have hassidic and reformed judaism....

I think you can all decide on a number of various 'atheist' sects.

Just sew a P with a slash through it onto my sleeve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvM-WQP7SOw

That's the spiri..... no wait.... that's the other one.... ummm... what would you say? That's the material?

lol

**Luvapottamus**

Ahriman Wrote:

Luvapottamus Wrote:
Ahriman Wrote:
There are 3 main branches of buddism. Three main branches of Islam. Christianity has a plethora of denominations. Hinduism has various forms. Hell you even have hassidic and reformed judaism....

I think you can all decide on a number of various 'atheist' sects.

Just sew a P with a slash through it onto my sleeve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvM-WQP7SOw

That's the spiri..... no wait.... that's the other one.... ummm... what would you say? That's the material?

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 58515 04-18-2012 06:48 AM

Currahee Wrote:

This argument always makes me chuckle. I am by no means an athiest but atheism is not a religion. Religious claiming it is make their own religion all the more ignorant looking when they do.

Do people not understand what the word Theism means?! Well ... atheism is the opposite of that! There's not many issues that come more black and white than theism/atheism.

$0.02

Kinda confuse there aren't you?
I'll help you with that.

Theists cannot PROVE the existence of God,
Yet they purport there to be a God.
Therefore theirs is a FAITH BASED belief system.

An Atheist cannot PROVE the NONexistence of God,
Yet they purport to know there to NOT be a God.
Therefore theirs is a FAITH BASED belief system.

So TECHNICALLY....no... Atheism is not a religion... but it is another FAITH BASED BELIEF SYSTEM.
And a very biased against all other faith based groups I might add.
The Atheist is actually akin the Fundamentalist Muslims in that regard.
Atheists do not tolerate the existence of other Faith Based groups.
Given the power, Atheists would WIPE OUT all other Faith Based belief systems.
Why?
Because Atheists are NOT simply WITHOUT God.... Atheists are ANTIGod.
ANTIGODDERS is actually a more correct term for them.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 58515 04-18-2012 06:56 AM

Devout Agnostic Wrote:

Luvapottamus Wrote:
Devout Agnostic Wrote:
That sounds personal. care to elaborate?

The title was bait. I was addressing the skeptic-enforced worldview of institutionalized science. I believe what we call "science" is inseparable from what is called atheism.

I don't think atheism and agnosticism are mutually exclusive.

Certainly a lot of atheists claim the scientific method as their belief system.

But not all.

And I'm personally not satisfied with the big bang. I think evolution has been well proven(I'd separate those two too) but I'm not satisfied that the big bang answers the question it supposedly addresses.

My dad is an atheist, but more of an adherent to stoicism as a philosophy than the scientific method.

I suppose its inevitable that a discussion like this will occasionally get lost in the semantic labyrinth. agnosticism, atheism, science, and skepticism are all words with specific meanings that overlap to some degree, but to me this is an issue of identity. As a stoic, I imagine your dad wasnt terribly vocal about his internal positions? When I talk about atheists, im referring to people who identify as atheists, vocally. That's the evangelical aspect of this emergent religion. They are almost exclusively philosophy-of-science adherents in my experience, with at least a foot in what has been dubbed by critics as fundamental materialism, the scientist/atheist/skeptic trinity i referred to in my OP.

See what I was saying above?
VOCAL Atheists???
I call 'em ANTIGODDERS.
They are DEFINED by God... much to their chagrin.

They like to hide behind the term A-THEIST..... or WITHOUT-GOD.
That may be the meaning of the word but it most certainly DOES NOT describe them.
ANTIGODDERS DOES describe them.

**sign7**

DrPostman Wrote:

...
sign11 Wrote:
Verdict: Kaufman. Atheism = religion
Case closed.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1467028.html
Not really closed. You're using the courts who have found that cutting
off someone's porn or cable tv amounts to "cruel and unusual" punishment.

That's silly.

Not this court. Although Kaufman won his appeal to have his Atheist study group allowed under the Free Exercise Clause of the 1st Amendment. (An inmate retains the right to exercise his religious beliefs in prison.) he apparently lost the battle to keep his gay porn.

"Kaufman also argues that the defendants used an overly broad definition of “pornography” when they prevented him from receiving several publications containing sexual content and photographs of nude men.."

>>"The district court dismissed the pornography claim at screening, see 28 U.S.C. § 1915A, .."

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1467028.html

**Luvapottamus** · (This post was last modified: 04-18-2012 07:02 AM by Luvapottamus.)

LoP Guest Wrote:

Devout Agnostic Wrote:
Luvapottamus Wrote:
I don't think atheism and agnosticism are mutually exclusive.

Certainly a lot of atheists claim the scientific method as their belief system.

But not all.

And I'm personally not satisfied with the big bang. I think evolution has been well proven(I'd separate those two too) but I'm not satisfied that the big bang answers the question it supposedly addresses.

My dad is an atheist, but more of an adherent to stoicism as a philosophy than the scientific method.

I suppose its inevitable that a discussion like this will occasionally get lost in the semantic labyrinth. agnosticism, atheism, science, and skepticism are all words with specific meanings that overlap to some degree, but to me this is an issue of identity. As a stoic, I imagine your dad wasnt terribly vocal about his internal positions? When I talk about atheists, im referring to people who identify as atheists, vocally. That's the evangelical aspect of this emergent religion. They are almost exclusively philosophy-of-science adherents in my experience, with at least a foot in what has been dubbed by critics as fundamental materialism, the scientist/atheist/skeptic trinity i referred to in my OP.

See what I was saying above?
VOCAL Atheists???
I call 'em ANTIGODDERS.
They are DEFINED by God... much to their chagrin.

They like to hide behind the term A-THEIST..... or WITHOUT-GOD.
That may be the meaning of the word but it most certainly DOES NOT describe them.
ANTIGODDERS DOES describe them.

Some atheists are anti-theist, meaning they are against YOU.

I'm not one of them. Believe what you want, just follow the golden rule please.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 58515 04-18-2012 07:03 AM

Pi Wrote:

It can be an institution, as we have all seen. But generally atheism is about NOT adhering to the bullshit religious system aka the status quo.

It's about ending the power of the church. Which is really needed for us to progress. I don't need a daddy. Do you?

Again... is this fella simply A-Theist... WITHOUT-GOD?
Or is he an ANTI-GODDER?

Is OP a shill? S977

The question was a STAW MAN question mean't to give the dumb Atheists a freebie.
The CORRECT question is: IS ATHEISM A FAITH BASED BELIEF SYSTEM?

**Luvapottamus**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Pi Wrote:
It can be an institution, as we have all seen. But generally atheism is about NOT adhering to the bullshit religious system aka the status quo.

It's about ending the power of the church. Which is really needed for us to progress. I don't need a daddy. Do you?

Again... is this fella simply A-Theist... WITHOUT-GOD?
Or is he an ANTI-GODDER?

Is OP a shill?
The question was a STAW MAN question mean't to give the dumb Atheists a freebie.
The CORRECT question is: IS ATHEISM A FAITH BASED BELIEF SYSTEM?

So you aren't an adherent to the Golden Rule.

Fine. Good question anyway.

No. It's not a belief system.

Atheists believe different things.

What they have in common is they don't believe in a deity.

I'll tell you some of the things I believe if you want, and you can compare them to what other atheists believe if you want, and you may find some common beliefs.

But it's not a belief system.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 58515 04-18-2012 07:13 AM

Pi Wrote:

It can be an institution, as we have all seen. But generally atheism is about NOT adhering to the bullshit religious system aka the status quo.

It's about ending the power of the church. Which is really needed for us to progress. I don't need a daddy. Do you?

Of course with clarification I COULD agree with you.
I am a Bible Believing Christian but I could agree that Christianity is not about adhering to some bullshit religious system also... ESPECIALLY THE STATUS QUO.

I would love to end the power of the false church myself.

I of course believe Atheism will never bring true progress.... Atheism will bring death... always has, always will.

Atheism has been a big player on the world scene for around 100 years.
During Atheism's first 100 years, Atheism has genocided upwards of 1/4 billion people.
Not even the Pagan Catholics can match that!!

**Devout Agnostic**

Luvapottamus Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
They like to hide behind the term A-THEIST..... or WITHOUT-GOD.
That may be the meaning of the word but it most certainly DOES NOT describe them.
ANTIGODDERS DOES describe them.

Some atheists are anti-theist, meaning they are against YOU.

I'm not one of them. Believe what you want, just follow the golden rule please.

I've found there to be regional differentiation in how these terms are applied, which muddies the semantic waters even more. In the South and more rural parts of the US, the term 'atheist' has been popularized by zealots on both sides of the debate, and ranges from casual to severe rejection of religion. On the west coast, where im from, there is a clear distinction between agnosticism, which is a casual, non-committal rejection of religion, and atheism, which is rarer, militant, and oftentimes nonobservant of agnosticism, viewing self-identified agnostics as 'polite atheists.' I couldnt really comment on elsewhere, but i'd be curious if anyone has any insights.

**Devout Agnostic**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Pi Wrote:
It can be an institution, as we have all seen. But generally atheism is about NOT adhering to the bullshit religious system aka the status quo.

It's about ending the power of the church. Which is really needed for us to progress. I don't need a daddy. Do you?

Again... is this fella simply A-Theist... WITHOUT-GOD?
Or is he an ANTI-GODDER?

Is OP a shill?
The question was a STAW MAN question mean't to give the dumb Atheists a freebie.
The CORRECT question is: IS ATHEISM A FAITH BASED BELIEF SYSTEM?

I already admitted that the title was bait. I attempted to make my OP clear, though. Of course, I have my own definition of religion. I think the pattern of behavior and organization is the key, not specifics of dogma, and the entirety of the OP is laying out the similarities between fundamental materialism and every major religion that has ever held influence over masses before it.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 58515 04-18-2012 07:37 AM

Luvapottamus Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
Pi Wrote:
It can be an institution, as we have all seen. But generally atheism is about NOT adhering to the bullshit religious system aka the status quo.

It's about ending the power of the church. Which is really needed for us to progress. I don't need a daddy. Do you?

Again... is this fella simply A-Theist... WITHOUT-GOD?
Or is he an ANTI-GODDER?

Is OP a shill?
The question was a STAW MAN question mean't to give the dumb Atheists a freebie.
The CORRECT question is: IS ATHEISM A FAITH BASED BELIEF SYSTEM?
So you aren't an adherent to the Golden Rule.

Fine. Good question anyway.

No. It's not a belief system.

Atheists believe different things.

What they have in common is they don't believe in a deity.

I'll tell you some of the things I believe if you want, and you can compare them to what other atheists believe if you want, and you may find some common beliefs.

But it's not a belief system.

Then WHAT YOU ARE SAYING
is that if Theists don't have a lot of stuff in common with other Theists they are not a system of belief?
A Deist for example would believe there is a God but he's an absentee father... doesn't care about His creation.
A fundamentalist Christian would be much different.
I'm confused... but....
Me thinks I'm confused because YOU are confused.

**Luvapottamus** · (This post was last modified: 04-18-2012 08:01 AM by Luvapottamus.)

LoP Guest Wrote:

Luvapottamus Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:

Again... is this fella simply A-Theist... WITHOUT-GOD?
Or is he an ANTI-GODDER?

Is OP a shill?
The question was a STAW MAN question mean't to give the dumb Atheists a freebie.
The CORRECT question is: IS ATHEISM A FAITH BASED BELIEF SYSTEM?
So you aren't an adherent to the Golden Rule.

Fine. Good question anyway.

No. It's not a belief system.

Atheists believe different things.

What they have in common is they don't believe in a deity.

I'll tell you some of the things I believe if you want, and you can compare them to what other atheists believe if you want, and you may find some common beliefs.

But it's not a belief system.
Then WHAT YOU ARE SAYING
is that if Theists don't have a lot of stuff in common with other Theists they are not a system of belief?
A Deist for example would believe there is a God but he's an absentee father... doesn't care about His creation.
A fundamentalist Christian would be much different.
I'm confused... but....
Me thinks I'm confused because YOU are confused.

I have my own beliefs, and my dad has his, and my cousin has his.

They're quite a bit different.

And none of us believe in a deity.

We all were taught Christianity, in Oklahoma, so we have some understandings of that in common,

but there are differences there too.

My most current understandings of their beliefs is this:

Cousin doesn't believe in a deity, but he doesn't necessarily disbelieve in one or many of them. He is a big "fan" of OSHO(Bagwan Shree Rajnish) because his books ans audiotapes are interesting and funny. Cousin seeks enlightenment.

What he likes about OSHO is Rajneesh gives long eloquent monologues about various religions, and the inside joke is basically "you won't find enlightenment by following me."

Dad thinks belief in a deity is idiotic. But he has studied religious texts including the bible (the James and Greek Orthodox version) and he is no longer a mean atheist. When Christian evangelicals or Mormons come knocking at his door, he invites them in and they talk about the bible. He is a stoic. He chose stoicism as a practical philosophy. It's not about navel-gazing, but a way to live a good life. It has a manual. You can be a Christian stoic, they aren't mutually exclusive.

I believe based on the RULES(the bible) that if there is a God, and He is Omniscient, then he knew I wouldn't believe in Him before he created the universe, so won't punish me for that. And if I see Him, I can change my mind.

chuckle

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 49554 04-18-2012 07:56 AM

If neither theists nor atheists can prove or disprove God, then God is absent. Therefore the idea of God is redundant.

**Zero Point**

Truth Wrote:

Be an atheist, just don't be an asshole =)

Why buck the trend?