Just because you're born again doesn't mean you don't think logically. I am a christian and I believe in every one of the sciences. EXCEPT any science trying to disprove the existence of life after death. That is the only place I draw the line.

I've noticed within my family that the more religous they are the more ignorant and less critical thinking skills they seem to have. My mom actually believes all that nonsense about Jesus etc. and seems to have the mentality of a serf in the dark ages. My many conversations with religous and nonreligous people seems to bear this research out.

eyeseeall  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Faith in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are by definition illogical. You cannot claim to be a believer and logical at the same time. They are by definition the opposite.

Then so be it. LOL
I don't see how. I believe in evolution, the laws of physics, the works. I just believe it is all a master-plan coordinated over eons, not random organization over eons.

I understand that you believe in what science has revealed to us. Where it becomes illogical is that you believe in ideas put forward by a book that has been discredited by science. As science has proven the Bible wrong you have dropped those beliefs, that's good but it's illogical not to drop all beliefs from that book. If a religous system that claims to be the result of a perfect supreme being is proven wrong in just one instance the whole thing can be thrown out.

I would like more of your input on this.

LoP Guest  Wrote:

eyeseeall  Wrote:

Then so be it. LOL
I don't see how. I believe in evolution, the laws of physics, the works. I just believe it is all a master-plan coordinated over eons, not random organization over eons.

I understand that you believe in what science has revealed to us. Where it becomes illogical is that you believe in ideas put forward by a book that has been discredited by science. As science has proven the Bible wrong you have dropped those beliefs, that's good but it's illogical not to drop all beliefs from that book. If a religous system that claims to be the result of a perfect supreme being is proven wrong in just one instance the whole thing can be thrown out.

I would like more of your input on this.

You should be surprised to learn that I don't believe everything in the bible. I believe religion is like a spectrum. Every religion is speaking of the same thing from different perspectives. Once human corruption got involved is when it became a problem. The bible is a book written by man no more no less. So I rephrase my statement, I am more spiritual than I am "Christian"

evidence of absence is not absence of evidence. Science has not figured it ALL out . . . yet. When we do become that advanced (Which we are quickly reaching there with quantum sciences) I'm sure all the mysteries of the universe will be explained. Just don't be surprised if you find God or something like it.

eyeseeall  Wrote:

Just because you're born again doesn't mean you don't think logically. I am a christian and I believe in every one of the sciences. EXCEPT any science trying to disprove the existence of life after death. That is the only place I draw the line.

I don't want to turn this into a debate thread, but I do want to say this: It takes a truly critical thinker to realize that the universe didn't come into being on its own. Afterall how can something come from nothing, unless something bigger caused it to happen in the first place? Food for thought.

eyeseeall  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

I understand that you believe in what science has revealed to us. Where it becomes illogical is that you believe in ideas put forward by a book that has been discredited by science. As science has proven the Bible wrong you have dropped those beliefs, that's good but it's illogical not to drop all beliefs from that book. If a religous system that claims to be the result of a perfect supreme being is proven wrong in just one instance the whole thing can be thrown out.

I would like more of your input on this.

You should be surprised to learn that I don't believe everything in the bible. I believe religion is like a spectrum. Every religion is speaking of the same thing from different perspectives. Once human corruption got involved is when it became a problem. The bible is a book written by man no more no less. So I rephrase my statement, I am more spiritual than I am "Christian"

evidence of absence is not absence of evidence. Science has not figured it ALL out . . . yet. When we do become that advanced (Which we are quickly reaching there with quantum sciences) I'm sure all the mysteries of the universe will be explained. Just don't be surprised if you find God or something like it.

i dont think a higher power and science are mutually exclusive...but then you wouldnt be considered born again.

at least the ones that i know adhere to a strictly bible based belief system

LoP Guest  Wrote:

eyeseeall  Wrote:

Then so be it. LOL
I don't see how. I believe in evolution, the laws of physics, the works. I just believe it is all a master-plan coordinated over eons, not random organization over eons.

I understand that you believe in what science has revealed to us. Where it becomes illogical is that you believe in ideas put forward by a book that has been discredited by science. As science has proven the Bible wrong you have dropped those beliefs, that's good but it's illogical not to drop all beliefs from that book. If a religous system that claims to be the result of a perfect supreme being is proven wrong in just one instance the whole thing can be thrown out.

I would like more of your input on this.

You should be surprised to learn that I don't believe everything in the bible. I believe religion is like a spectrum. Every religion is speaking of the same thing from different perspectives. Once human corruption got involved is when it became a problem. The bible is a book written by man no more no less. So I rephrase my statement, I am more spiritual than I am "Christian"

evidence of absence is not absence of evidence. Science has not figured it ALL out . . . yet. When we do become that advanced (Which we are quickly reaching there with quantum sciences) I'm sure all the mysteries of the universe will be explained. Just don't be surprised if you find God or something like it.

eyeseeall  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

I understand that you believe in what science has revealed to us. Where it becomes illogical is that you believe in ideas put forward by a book that has been discredited by science. As science has proven the Bible wrong you have dropped those beliefs, that's good but it's illogical not to drop all beliefs from that book. If a religous system that claims to be the result of a perfect supreme being is proven wrong in just one instance the whole thing can be thrown out.

I would like more of your input on this.

You should be surprised to learn that I don't believe everything in the bible. I believe religion is like a spectrum. Every religion is speaking of the same thing from different perspectives. Once human corruption got involved is when it became a problem. The bible is a book written by man no more no less. So I rephrase my statement, I am more spiritual than I am "Christian"

evidence of absence is not absence of evidence. Science has not figured it ALL out . . . yet. When we do become that advanced (Which we are quickly reaching there with quantum sciences) I'm sure all the mysteries of the universe will be explained. Just don't be surprised if you find God or something like it.

Fair enough, you and I are actually very close in our beliefs then. The born again thing threw me off because that is usually the label that fundy nutters use. Clearly the Bible is filled with a lot of absulute rubbish and much of it is evil. There is some truth mixed in it though.

eyeseeall  Wrote:

Just because you're born again doesn't mean you don't think logically. I am a christian and I believe in every one of the sciences. EXCEPT any science trying to disprove the existence of life after death. That is the only place I draw the line.

I don't want to turn this into a debate thread, but I do want to say this: It takes a truly critical thinker to realize that the universe didn't come into being on its own. Afterall how can something come from nothing, unless something bigger caused it to happen in the first place? Food for thought.