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Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
Daddy
Registered User
User ID: 86377
04-24-2013 08:13 PM

Posts: 2,129



Post: #61
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
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From my other thread:

As I watch people on this forum make huge assumptions regarding the Boston bombings that will only serve to cost them credibility in the end, I would like to start a discussion on how we can gain perspective by not picking apart pictures or videos or bad reporting when all of the facts weren't yet known.

Since the early 20th Century there has been a concerted effort by the monied elite to steer world events to their liking. Often we overlook the amazingly simple methods preferred by this group to control world events and human beings worldwide.

Their preferred method has always been the Hegelian Dialectic which is based on the belief that conflict determines history. According to Hegel, a force (thesis) dictates its own opposing force (antithesis). These forces in conflict result in the creation of a third force (synthesis). This work formed the basis of both Marxist dialectical materialism and fascist statism.

From his theory comes the reallization that the creation of conflicts can be used to produce determined outcomes. We have seen it used extensively throughout the 20th and 21st Centuries in wars, manufactured crisis, and many other ways to steer the course of the history of mankind. It has proved to be an amazingly simple and effective tool to control the masses.

Many will recognize it as PROBLEM --> REACTION --> SOLUTION.....same thing.

Hegel had no problems with this idea as he placed the State above the individual. Hegel's stated belief was that Man is subordinate to the State, and only finds fulfillment in obedience to the diktats of the State. As he said, "The State is the absolute reality and the individual himself has objective existence, truth and morality only in his capacity as a member of the State."

It goes against our western views of the individual being the supreme being in our relationship with the State. Regardless, the US government has long ago placed the State above the individual, despite what we were taught in school.

It is with this in mind, the method preferred by those in power, the Hegelian Dialectic, that we should be analyzing the current events in the absence of real and definitive intel.

We should be looking at what happened and what they achieved.

The Thesis: The event - the bombing.

The Antithesis: The fear and anger produced by "terrorism" (even though the danger was small)

The Synthesis: They normalized the suspension of the Constitution and the complete lock down of a major US city in the name of catching a lone 19 year old "terrorist". The citizens of Boston willingly handed over their Constitutional rights to freedom of movement and freedom from unlawful search and seizure. They accepted a militarized police force, complete with tanks and heavily armed soldiers, patrolling their streets. They cheered the police who put an end to their fear, even though in the process the citizens completely surrendered core values of the American Constitution. They distracted us while several key issues were being debated in Congress. I'm sure that much more will come from this......PLEASE ELABORATE!!

As you people pick apart the pictures, the testimony, the victims, the perpetrators and many other elements of this case, of which we will likely never get the answers, understand that there is another way.

A reverse analysis of the Hegelian Dialectic may provide you the evidence you seek and not make you look like a CRAZY conspiracy theorist in the process. Look at what the "Synthesis" were of this and other events and you may gain a much better perspective than if you focus on possibly inconsequential and hard to prove minor details.

The truth is that it is far more simple than many of you are making it. It doesn't need to be that difficult and frustrating. Once you understand their preferred methods you can more easily determine what happened and why.

Just my .02. I hope this helps a few of you.

Please contribute if you have anything at all to add.

Thanks!!!!
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 165086
04-24-2013 08:15 PM

 



Post: #62
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
This is about Sandy Hook but it fits...

The Four Camps

There are four groups categories of people emerge with events like Sandy Hook:

1- A sub-group of people who automatically assume that every shooting/terrorist attack is an “inside-job”. This sizable minority group will dogmatically remain entrenched in this position regardless of the evidence. The inevitability here is that they will cherry pick evidence and advocate whichever alternative theory their pied-piper puts forward regardless of the facts.
2 - There exists another sub-group who hold a healthy scepticism of government and media. There will be some crossover with group 1, but not much. The inevitability here is that many of these people will dilligently pour over the evidence with a fine tooth comb before reaching a conclusion which isn’t afraid to go against the grain.
3- Another sub-group would be those in the all-important majority. They generally accept the MSM as fact, are privately open to alternative theories but are conditioned to be fearful of the Orwellian perjorative of “conspiracy theorist”. Alternative blogs and news sites combined with the repetition of government/media lies have had a tremendous impact in nudging little-by-little this group towards group 2. I would expect this large group to be the primary targets of government disinformation campaigns.
4. The final group would be essentially the other side of the same coin with group 1. These zombies will accept everything the MSM and government proclaim as fact and “will dogmatically remain entrenched in this position regardless of the evidence.”

Groups 1 and 2 are a problem for the government. Group 3 must be prevented in merging with group 1 at all costs. This is why Obama’s former “informations Tsar” Cass Sunstein called for action against “conspiracy theories” in a 2008 paper he authored entitled “Conspiracy Theories”. He said:

“The existence of both domestic and foreign conspiracy theories, we suggest, is no trivial matter, posing real risks to the government’s antiterrorism policies, whatever the latter may be.” He goes on to propose that, “the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups”

Black Propaganda

What better way to discredit and eliminate”conspiracy theorists” than to give them enough rope to hang themselves? What better way is there to drive a permanent wedge between groups 2 and 3 above than allowing them to hoist themselves by their own petard? What better time to do this than in the emotionally charged aftermath of a national tragedy when the world is in mourning? What better way to do this than manipulating them into accusing the grieving parents of “acting” on spurious grounds? This can surely only lead to derision and ostracisation and the reinforcement of the negative “conspiracy theorist” narrative.

The application of this manipulation would be relatively straightforward and without risk. You bide your time until an “inevitable” heinous crime is committed, a crime that you have had absolutely no involvement in and so horrific that it results in a state of collective grief and an outpouring of sympathy for the victims. When this opportunity arises you control the release of information, such as not releasing the crime scene photos or allowing the parents of the children to see their murdered children or otherwise misleading information that will direct those who seek to false and ideally offensive conclusions. This will send the “conspiracy” community (from groups 1 and 2) who take the bait into overdrive and those mildly sceptical due to the inconsistencies in the official narrative (group 3) to the blogs and sites of groups 1 and 2.

With this in place you release disinformation in drips and drabs for “conspiracy theorists” to get excited about. Disinformation that ultimately discredits the researcher and by association their other research. Essential to this would be the government shills who would be already in place posing as “conspiracy theorists” pushing with all their might their black propaganda. These are the people who frame the debate and from whom the most absurd and offensive memes develop amongst the “conspiracy” community.

Once out there it develops a life of it’s own and a chain-reaction begins and honest people begin to spread the disinformation and the meme is firmly in place as representing the “conspiracy” or alternative viewpoint.

The next phase is something that has already come to pass - the demonisation of “conspiracy theorists” in the MSM which focused on the most vile and off-putting “conspiracy theories”. The part is perceived to represent the whole and this by design extends itself in the minds of the audience to other alternative theories such as 9/11 and JFK.

I would predict the endgame to be the release (or leak) of irrefutable evidence which confirms that the attack took place such as crime scene photographs along with calls to shutdown alternative blogs and sites.

http://theflowerthrowers.wordpress.com/2...hoax-trap/
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Daddy
Registered User
User ID: 86377
04-24-2013 08:20 PM

Posts: 2,129



Post: #63
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
LoP Guest  Wrote: (04-24-2013 08:15 PM)
This is about Sandy Hook but it fits...

The Four Camps

There are four groups categories of people emerge with events like Sandy Hook:

1- A sub-group of people who automatically assume that every shooting/terrorist attack is an “inside-job”. This sizable minority group will dogmatically remain entrenched in this position regardless of the evidence. The inevitability here is that they will cherry pick evidence and advocate whichever alternative theory their pied-piper puts forward regardless of the facts.
2 - There exists another sub-group who hold a healthy scepticism of government and media. There will be some crossover with group 1, but not much. The inevitability here is that many of these people will dilligently pour over the evidence with a fine tooth comb before reaching a conclusion which isn’t afraid to go against the grain.
3- Another sub-group would be those in the all-important majority. They generally accept the MSM as fact, are privately open to alternative theories but are conditioned to be fearful of the Orwellian perjorative of “conspiracy theorist”. Alternative blogs and news sites combined with the repetition of government/media lies have had a tremendous impact in nudging little-by-little this group towards group 2. I would expect this large group to be the primary targets of government disinformation campaigns.
4. The final group would be essentially the other side of the same coin with group 1. These zombies will accept everything the MSM and government proclaim as fact and “will dogmatically remain entrenched in this position regardless of the evidence.”

Groups 1 and 2 are a problem for the government. Group 3 must be prevented in merging with group 1 at all costs. This is why Obama’s former “informations Tsar” Cass Sunstein called for action against “conspiracy theories” in a 2008 paper he authored entitled “Conspiracy Theories”. He said:

“The existence of both domestic and foreign conspiracy theories, we suggest, is no trivial matter, posing real risks to the government’s antiterrorism policies, whatever the latter may be.” He goes on to propose that, “the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups”

Black Propaganda

What better way to discredit and eliminate”conspiracy theorists” than to give them enough rope to hang themselves? What better way is there to drive a permanent wedge between groups 2 and 3 above than allowing them to hoist themselves by their own petard? What better time to do this than in the emotionally charged aftermath of a national tragedy when the world is in mourning? What better way to do this than manipulating them into accusing the grieving parents of “acting” on spurious grounds? This can surely only lead to derision and ostracisation and the reinforcement of the negative “conspiracy theorist” narrative.

The application of this manipulation would be relatively straightforward and without risk. You bide your time until an “inevitable” heinous crime is committed, a crime that you have had absolutely no involvement in and so horrific that it results in a state of collective grief and an outpouring of sympathy for the victims. When this opportunity arises you control the release of information, such as not releasing the crime scene photos or allowing the parents of the children to see their murdered children or otherwise misleading information that will direct those who seek to false and ideally offensive conclusions. This will send the “conspiracy” community (from groups 1 and 2) who take the bait into overdrive and those mildly sceptical due to the inconsistencies in the official narrative (group 3) to the blogs and sites of groups 1 and 2.

With this in place you release disinformation in drips and drabs for “conspiracy theorists” to get excited about. Disinformation that ultimately discredits the researcher and by association their other research. Essential to this would be the government shills who would be already in place posing as “conspiracy theorists” pushing with all their might their black propaganda. These are the people who frame the debate and from whom the most absurd and offensive memes develop amongst the “conspiracy” community.

Once out there it develops a life of it’s own and a chain-reaction begins and honest people begin to spread the disinformation and the meme is firmly in place as representing the “conspiracy” or alternative viewpoint.

The next phase is something that has already come to pass - the demonisation of “conspiracy theorists” in the MSM which focused on the most vile and off-putting “conspiracy theories”. The part is perceived to represent the whole and this by design extends itself in the minds of the audience to other alternative theories such as 9/11 and JFK.

I would predict the endgame to be the release (or leak) of irrefutable evidence which confirms that the attack took place such as crime scene photographs along with calls to shutdown alternative blogs and sites.

http://theflowerthrowers.wordpress.com/2...hoax-trap/

The evidence lately has been so questionable as to make judgements based upon it very difficult.

I try to use a healthy skepticism and try to remain neutral...

I find it easier to analyze what is accomplished to the benefit of the government following these events. There is no "proof", but a reasonable thinker can draw a few ideas from the results.
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1110.00
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User ID: 150674
04-24-2013 08:21 PM

Posts: 6,127



Post: #64
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
There isn't yet enough fact sifting going on for real theory to exist in any "significant enough" amount. Right now, conspiracy inquiry has effectively become conspiracy genre, divided into equally fanatical Right and Left factions that argue unproductively. This is modern civilization in action, which in many respects mirrors ancient civilization. It is all organized crime.

I find the large number of obvious agent provocateurs involved to be thoroughly alarming.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."

Secret Alchemical Tree Tarot Layout

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBBXrUxxK6o

New Mystery School Proposal

https://lunaticoutpost.com/showthread.php?tid=276576
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2013 08:22 PM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
Daddy
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User ID: 86377
04-24-2013 08:22 PM

Posts: 2,129



Post: #65
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
1110.00  Wrote: (04-24-2013 08:21 PM)
There isn't yet enough fact sifting going on for real theory to exist in any "significant enough" amount. Right now, conspiracy inquiry has effectively become conspiracy genre, divided into equally fanatical Right and Left factions that argue unproductively. This is modern civilization in action, which in many respects mirrors ancient civilization. It is all organized crime.

I find the large number of obvious agent provocateurs involved to be thoroughly alarming.

JhikpghfJhikpghf
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smerve
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User ID: 162931
04-24-2013 08:24 PM

Posts: 12,861



Post: #66
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
Sheldoncooper  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:53 PM)
smerve  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:47 PM)
Gandhi  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:33 PM)
VERY GOOD OBSERVATION!!! I agree 100% and will also go on to say that I believe that some of the extremists are government plants to discredit the entire scene.

Everything you have said is true. The extremists use huge assumptions to draw, what in their mind, are definitive conclusions.....To everyone else they simply look NUTS!!!

Sometimes it's hard to even find the reasonable theorists to intelligently converse with anymore.

"some of the extremists are government plants to discredit the entire scene"


This happens, inside forums, and outside forums.

Paranoid BS, no-one needs plants as you guys make yourself look stupid on your own. Creating an untraceable, unprovable enemy is just one of the ways you idiots are controlled.

If this is your opinion of the people here, why waste your time in LOP?

[Image: Xdmdy.png]
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Cavaignac
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User ID: 154138
04-24-2013 08:25 PM

Posts: 1,618



Post: #67
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
smerve  Wrote: (04-24-2013 08:24 PM)
Sheldoncooper  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:53 PM)
smerve  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:47 PM)
"some of the extremists are government plants to discredit the entire scene"


This happens, inside forums, and outside forums.

Paranoid BS, no-one needs plants as you guys make yourself look stupid on your own. Creating an untraceable, unprovable enemy is just one of the ways you idiots are controlled.

If this is your opinion of the people here, why waste your time in LOP?

It was my opinion on you. I have not spoken to everyone on this forum.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 105247
04-24-2013 08:26 PM

 



Post: #68
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
This sight is totally infiltrated.


Saul Alinsky 101.
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smerve
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User ID: 162931
04-24-2013 08:27 PM

Posts: 12,861



Post: #69
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
LoP Guest  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:55 PM)
Sheldoncooper  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:53 PM)
smerve  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:47 PM)
"some of the extremists are government plants to discredit the entire scene"


This happens, inside forums, and outside forums.

Paranoid BS, no-one needs plants as you guys make yourself look stupid on your own. Creating an untraceable, unprovable enemy is just one of the ways you idiots are controlled.

Better to think of them as fools with absolutely zero discernment skills. Jhikpghf

If this is your opinion of the people here, why waste your time in LOP?

[Image: Xdmdy.png]
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Daddy
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User ID: 86377
04-24-2013 08:28 PM

Posts: 2,129



Post: #70
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
Sheldoncooper  Wrote: (04-24-2013 08:25 PM)
smerve  Wrote: (04-24-2013 08:24 PM)
Sheldoncooper  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:53 PM)
Paranoid BS, no-one needs plants as you guys make yourself look stupid on your own. Creating an untraceable, unprovable enemy is just one of the ways you idiots are controlled.

If this is your opinion of the people here, why waste your time in LOP?

It was my opinion on you. I have not spoken to everyone on this forum.

Everything he stated was accurate as far as I can tell....

Nothing was even really FAR OUT...

I just gave him +1 reputation.

Are you one of those who likes to argue for the sake of arguing?
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 164312
04-24-2013 08:31 PM

 



Post: #71
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
smerve  Wrote: (04-24-2013 08:27 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:55 PM)
Sheldoncooper  Wrote: (04-24-2013 07:53 PM)
Paranoid BS, no-one needs plants as you guys make yourself look stupid on your own. Creating an untraceable, unprovable enemy is just one of the ways you idiots are controlled.

Better to think of them as fools with absolutely zero discernment skills. Jhikpghf

If this is your opinion of the people here, why waste your time in LOP?

It's not my opinion of all the people here, just some. I don't know if they are plants or not.
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Daddy
Registered User
User ID: 86377
04-24-2013 08:35 PM

Posts: 2,129



Post: #72
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
Sheldoncooper  Wrote: (04-24-2013 08:32 PM)
Gandhi  Wrote: (04-24-2013 08:28 PM)
Sheldoncooper  Wrote: (04-24-2013 08:25 PM)
It was my opinion on you. I have not spoken to everyone on this forum.

Everything he stated was accurate as far as I can tell....

Nothing was even really FAR OUT...

I just gave him +1 reputation.

Are you one of those who likes to argue for the sake of arguing?

Nothing he said was accurate. You are not the voice of authority on this site, just someone who is a fan of a child-molesting racist.

Well, I guess that answers my question....

JptdknpaJptdknpa
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jcab2000
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User ID: 143545
04-24-2013 08:37 PM

Posts: 4,065



Post: #73
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
evo  Wrote: (04-24-2013 06:30 PM)
The balance has tipped to the extremist side in recent years.

Only because the extreme are the loudest and most paid attention to. And it's intentional to discredit all conspiracy theorists.

Tell enough people that alien weapons blew up the WTC towers and they'll just buy the MSM reported story.

Hey man, do you realize there is poison in the water, the food, the medicine and the air? Do you realize that all wars are about keeping oil sold in US dollars? Do you realize you are a slave that doesn't notice the cage you're in?
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jcab2000
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User ID: 143545
04-24-2013 08:38 PM

Posts: 4,065



Post: #74
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
LoP Guest  Wrote: (04-24-2013 06:42 PM)
I think the better term is conspiracy thinkers vs conspiracy faithers.


Some people have faith that everything is a conspiracy, others prefer to think about the possibility that it is a conspiracy.


Thinkers tend to modify based off the facts, faithers do not give a f*#k about that facts and if you do that means you are a shill.

What exactly are facts these days? Absolutely everything is or can be manipulated.

Hey man, do you realize there is poison in the water, the food, the medicine and the air? Do you realize that all wars are about keeping oil sold in US dollars? Do you realize you are a slave that doesn't notice the cage you're in?
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Disturbed staff
Bad to the bone
User ID: 1
04-24-2013 08:38 PM

Posts: 26,060



Post: #75
Conspiracy Extremists v.s. Conspiracy Theorists
Usually the extremists don't last very long here. Our way of moderating is not liked by most of them. They often create several threads with same images, videos, statements, etc. which we merge, while it seems each thread is a stage for the maker, instead of a real quest for truth.

I wonder if they really think everything is a conspiracy, or that they want everything to be a conspiracy so they can climb on their high horse and "educate" the masses with blurry videos and claims of authority in fields they never even read about.

I 'll keep trying to make LOP for the theorists, not the extremists. I agree that they bring down the CT community.

[Image: mybbsig.php]

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