News

**Pokoia** · **Pokoia** Subscriber User ID: 16873 09-27-2012 10:04 PM **Posts: 3,070**

Hippocratic or hypocritic oath?

Jhikpghf

**Joshua Flynn** · (This post was last modified: 09-27-2012 10:16 PM by Joshua Flynn.)

Old Whatshisname Wrote:

But I see the doctor's point; an un-vaccinated kid can be a vector for the spread of disease, even if other kids have been vaccinated.

So you're basically saying the vaccinated kids can still fall ill from the unvaccinated kids?

**Joshua Flynn**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Joshua Flynn Wrote:
evilolive Wrote:
Ok, so it's normally me who slams people for using hyperbole and exaggerations... but still, very likely to believe that this is the doctor's viewpoint on that they don't like the patient telling the doctor what's right It says "I don't trust you". I've never been in the room while this happened but I've done that in the past - made suggestions to this doctor who's all qualified and that's the vibe I got "You think you know to fix your problem, then why are you here?". I guess that it's silly that the doctors deny it for the reason "Because I don't want cross contamination" or whatever because we go out and see people daily anyway..

Anyway it depends on the threats of the vaccine the people were worried about to this doctor. Accidental dead/alive germ mixup? Accidents unfortunately happen. Threats such as mercury aren't too frightening if you eat fish like tuna much in the first place - which many of the world do and thrive on.

Well now I forgot what baddy I heard of that put me off of it in the first place though, damn :(

Doctor has to take a backseat in the superiority complex. I go to the doctor for his opinion. He should be an expert on the subject. If I can lecture him on the topic, he's not an expert, if he's not an expert, his opinion doesn't mean much.

But the expertise of a doctor is another argument altogether. I assume the doctor have a default amount of ability. I would expect to walk in there, ask a topic he should know about, and expect him to be able to show me in vast depth what he knows.

I'd expect a doctor to maintain patient/doctor confidentiality in this case and still care for the patient as he's morally obliged to do, not to throw me out of the surgery for disagreeing, because now the doctor acts like the know-it-all, as if to say 'I'm always right' - and you said yourself.

They do make mistakes.

Here is my question for you types, why do bother to do to the doctor when you know more than them anyway?

He asked that question earlier. My rebuttal was I shouldn't know more than them. It sets a dangerous precedent if I can demonstrate a greater aptness for symptom identification than my doctor: one wonders then what his years of medical school were used on if a backwater internet user has to explain to him why he's not dealing with diabetes (no history, no constant water consumption, no other diabetic symptoms, good diet) and the doctor still has to order a blood test and looks confused when it shows it's not diabetes.

A doctor should be more competent than me. I only bother to go in the hopes one day I meet the 'sherlock holmes' of doctors who can deduce the illness, tell me the solution (and not throw a pill at it) and could confidently answer, in-depth, any queries I might make, competently.

That and have you ever tried drawing a blood sample with one hand?

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 98692 09-27-2012 10:36 PM

Joshua Flynn Wrote:

Old Whatshisname Wrote:
But I see the doctor's point; an un-vaccinated kid can be a vector for the spread of disease, even if other kids have been vaccinated.

So you're basically saying the vaccinated kids can still fall ill from the unvaccinated kids?

Yup, they STILL say that, even after hearing about the study
in Canada that showed people getting the flu from the flu-shot,,,
then presumably going on to infect the unvaccinated population.

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Haven-t-...pid4127629

**Joshua Flynn** · (This post was last modified: 09-27-2012 10:49 PM by Joshua Flynn.)

evilolive Wrote:

Ok, so it's normally me who slams people for using hyperbole and exaggerations... but still, very likely to believe that this is the doctor's viewpoint on that they don't like the patient telling the doctor what's right It says "I don't trust you". I've never been in the room while this happened but I've done that in the past - made suggestions to this doctor who's all qualified and that's the vibe I got "You think you know to fix your problem, then why are you here?". I guess that it's silly that the doctors deny it for the reason "Because I don't want cross contamination" or whatever because we go out and see people daily anyway..

When I've gone to the doctor's, except where I haven't done my research, the doctors often end up listening to me, and it often ends up the doctor plays the illness guessing game (the doctor asks me 'is it this illness?' and I explain why it can't be that illness. Could it be you're diabetic? No, I haven't consumed that much water. Could it be you've not had enough sleep? No, I tend to oversleep and wake up exhausted. etc).

I'd prefer it if the doctor took in the available symptoms and my analysis (because I try not to waste a doctor's time if I can deduce the illness myself - reduces the burden on the system), and then used his brain to go 'I know that illness, it's such and such!'. Or if he's having memory issues, to turn on his computer with a preloaded illness database.

The only doctors who look at me like I'm a bumbling idiot are usually the ones who know what they are on about. And they typically tend to be hospital specialists.

evilolive Wrote:

Anyway it depends on the threats of the vaccine the people were worried about to this doctor. Accidental dead/alive germ mixup? Accidents unfortunately happen. Threats such as mercury aren't too frightening if you eat fish like tuna much in the first place - which many of the world do and thrive on.

Accidents shouldn't happen in their cases if they are known to have immune-deficiency. But they occur anyway.

As for mercury, you're assuming something about the amounts. Mercury generally is toxic but if the amounts in fish are trace and the amounts of thimerosal in vaccines is much higher:

"A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose."

Mercury limit set by EPA in drinking water:
"The MCLG for mercury is 0.002 mg/L or 2 ppb. EPA has set this level of protection based on the best available science to prevent potential health problems."

So it should contain 0.002 milligrams per litre.
A vaccine contains 25 micrograms, that is 0.025 milligrams, per half a milli-litre.

Even by stark contrast of dosage, a single dose exceeds the water drinking limits by twelve (point five) times the amount. This is ignoring the fact that we're not even comparing milli-litres to litres (vaccines have higher concentrate but we'll keep things simple here).

If it's clearly unfit for drinking consumption, then in-vitro injection as such is also even more dangerous (one does not inject toxic water directly into their bloodstream).

**Joshua Flynn** · (This post was last modified: 09-27-2012 10:45 PM by Joshua Flynn.)

LoP Guest Wrote:

Joshua Flynn Wrote:
Old Whatshisname Wrote:
But I see the doctor's point; an un-vaccinated kid can be a vector for the spread of disease, even if other kids have been vaccinated.

So you're basically saying the vaccinated kids can still fall ill from the unvaccinated kids?

Yup, they STILL say that, even after hearing about the study
in Canada that showed people getting the flu from the flu-shot,,,
then presumably going on to infect the unvaccinated population.

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Haven-t-...pid4127629

I think he dropped himself in it.

If he admits they fall ill, then he also acknowledges the vaccines don't work.

If he says they do not fall ill, then he admits there is no threat and therefore no justification for the scaremongering, and therefore no need to remove unvaccinated and no need to forcefully vaccinate people, thus showing the statement to be a lie (because he'd have to rescind the prior statement).

**silversides**

Pokoia Wrote:

Hippocratic or hypocritic oath?

Poland has pretty good healthcare...

Heartflowers

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 117127 09-30-2012 08:59 PM

That's bullshit. Most adults' "immunity" has waned, so most adults would be the ones putting infants at risk. Of course, the vaccine debate is simply full of scaremongering, lies and deceptions from those whose living depends on the myths being perpetuated.
Given the far less than 100% efficacy rate of most vaccines, if parents are really that worried about these "deadly diseases" then maybe they should put their infants in a bubble for the first 3 months of their lives, since most adults are not actually immune unless they've had the illness or a recent enough booster. This is why we see outbreaks in fully vaxed people. Duh. To blame it on unvaxed kids is a lame manipulation tool.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 114101 09-30-2012 09:14 PM

Just wonder when pediatricians will wake up and look in the mirror.....to see the monsters they really are......we were told to leave a pediatric office for refusal.

Being a physician I asked about the immaturity of the blood brain barrier ...she did not like that....I said no problem good bye and have only had child on amoxicillin maybe 7 days in 5 years and kid lives in the water....I tell my patients I don't believe in vaccines and they should read about them for themselves. And for home work assignment I tell people to google polio virus and sv 40 contamination.

**Mother Mary**

Old Whatshisname Wrote:

evilolive Wrote:
FreedomStands Wrote:
Wow but just recently they admitted to the damages done by some vaccines.

Other viral vaccines sometimes "accidentally" carry the live virus and inject it.

No way!

Aren't they all supposed to carry a miniature form of the virus anyway? That's how they're supposed to work - they put in a small amount, then the antibodies learn how to fight it so next time it won't be so bad.. I thought that was a great accomplishment for the Polio vaccine inventor to come up with that. He was a kind hearted man.
Actually, the first vaccination was developed in the late 1700's against smallpox, although they didn't know how it worked. But you're right, Edward Salk (the person who developed the polio vaccine) probably saved thousands of children from death.

But I see the doctor's point; an un-vaccinated kid can be a vector for the spread of disease, even if other kids have been vaccinated. That's why schools require vaccination; they don't want the other kids to get sick, too.

Vaccines aren't 100% safe; nothing is. But I'd be willing to bet that for every person they make sick, they save hundreds from sickness. It's like fluoride treatments: five patients get fluorosis, and five hundred kids don't get cavities.

The schools do not have a requirement for vaccines in a sense.

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/i...ation-laws

All but two states have religious exemption and 19 states have philosophical exemptions.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 117127 09-30-2012 10:35 PM

Fwiw, my kids attend public school with a philosophical exemption. Easy peasy, no one ever looked at me funny or treated me warily. After my 1st child's first "well baby" visit, the pediatrician genty tried to sway me to vax my infant but I refused, so she sent me home with a video lol. I never returned. I chose to chart my baby's growth myself, and I would also know, or believe I would know, if something was "off" with my child, i.e. possible hearing or sight issues, failure to thrive, learning issues, etc. My second child also only went to her first well baby visit. After that, we went to a family practice center where they were mostly seen by a nurse practitioner who didn't seem to care that we did not vax. Later, my one child was seen by a doctor who didnt even know she was unvaccinated. She said "she doesn't need any boosters at her age so we're good there". Lol. I was silent of course. I am not afraid at all though, and now my kids are older and it's less of an issue to deal with.

I recommend family practice doctors over pediatricians if you don't vax or don't want to vax in the future. I also recommend the book "How to raise a healthy child in spite of your doctor" by an esteemed pediatrician, Dr Robert Mendelsohn. This book was an absolute lifesaver for me in raising my babies with as little medical intervention as possible. Anecdotally, they are the pictures of health today with great teeth, slender, healthy and very bright and social. I attribute this in part to a life of no vaccines, no antibiotics, and healthy foods, and I did do attachment parenting minus the extended breastfeeding (I did that for slghtly under a year).

I'm not saying vaccines will harm every child, but I do know they do kill and maim babies and children and the government has a fund to pay damages to the families of these victims (google NVIC). I also believe the potential for brain damage on any level from vaccines is high. I believe the autism epidemic is absolutely caused by the great increase in vaccines given to babies and toddlers. All the explanations they try to come up with for the dramatic rise are very sorry ones, but mostly they don't even try to explain it. They just say it can't possibly be vaccines. Most parents of autistic kids beg to differ. It's an epic tragedy and I feel the truth will never be revealed, for the fact that the scope of the damage is far too monumental for anyone to even fathom.

**Joshua Flynn**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Just wonder when pediatricians will wake up and look in the mirror.....to see the monsters they really are......we were told to leave a pediatric office for refusal.

Being a physician I asked about the immaturity of the blood brain barrier ...she did not like that....I said no problem good bye and have only had child on amoxicillin maybe 7 days in 5 years and kid lives in the water....I tell my patients I don't believe in vaccines and they should read about them for themselves. And for home work assignment I tell people to google polio virus and sv 40 contamination.

Well done for standing up for your beliefs. Leaving must have been difficult, but it's good there are people out there who will stand up for their beliefs.

You're the kind of people who should be in the medical environment. People who care for their patients.