Post: #166

FreedomStands  Wrote:

~*~sang~froid~*~  Wrote:

Also, some of those things you listed, such as refraining from pork,washing, etc... are in my understanding, simply things included by those 'in charge' of the message. There were realistic reasons for some of these of course, and at that time, religion was the government. As we know, there was no better way to convince an entire population to follow through with a desired habit then to say it was from 'god'.

I like the way you have encompassed so many faiths and their messages I might add

Also, I probably didn't mention in the post above why I included things like refraining from pork and ritual purification.

A taboo in relation to pork was actually quite widespread in the world without having anything to do with Judaism. It may be due to an actual perceived uncleanliness to the animal, or it may relate to what some studies have recently shown (that pork contains a lectin that reactes negatively to everyone, despite their blood type or any other factor). People may have noticed this, or perhaps they were told.

Even in ancient Scotland there was a pork taboo, but it existed elsewhere in the world and across many cultures. Pork may have gained more acceptance around the world after the spread of Christianity, where it was also introduced to many populations where it had not existed (such as some island nations and elsewhere).

As for ritual ablution, that was even more common than any mention of pork (since pigs were rare in some places, but water was always a common factor for survival generally).

It can safely be said that in just about all ancient cultures, from Africa, all the way to Japan, and across the entire map, ritual purification played an important role in pre worship preparations, usually as a sign of reverence and respect. The methods of worship were also generally the same worldwide, and included gestures of submission that are commonly seen practiced by muslims today, but had existed since ancient times across the world. Ritual ablution and worship was performed in practically the same way in Ancient Egypt, the ancient middle east, Ancient Vedic Civilization, Ancient Han China, Ancient Japan, and elsewhere, even in Tibet and by many tribes around the world.

The practitioner would purify their body and intent, with the potentially symbolic purification with water, and would then bow and prostrate to God while praying and praising the God.

There were often even gestures specific to supplication and requests.

Early Christians even prayed this way, and even nontheistic Buddhists. This form of worship is still widespread in the world, though has almost entirely been discarded in Europe and America.

I believe cleaning and washing was to keep diseases under control in places where large amounts of people gathered. I dont really believe that 'god' demanded humanity do so at all.

I work today freedomstands, but I will come back to this discussion tonight

Post: #167

1

Post: #168

~*~sang~froid~*~  Wrote:

FreedomStands  Wrote:

~*~sang~froid~*~  Wrote:

Also, some of those things you listed, such as refraining from pork,washing, etc... are in my understanding, simply things included by those 'in charge' of the message. There were realistic reasons for some of these of course, and at that time, religion was the government. As we know, there was no better way to convince an entire population to follow through with a desired habit then to say it was from 'god'.

I like the way you have encompassed so many faiths and their messages I might add

Also, I probably didn't mention in the post above why I included things like refraining from pork and ritual purification.

A taboo in relation to pork was actually quite widespread in the world without having anything to do with Judaism. It may be due to an actual perceived uncleanliness to the animal, or it may relate to what some studies have recently shown (that pork contains a lectin that reactes negatively to everyone, despite their blood type or any other factor). People may have noticed this, or perhaps they were told.

Even in ancient Scotland there was a pork taboo, but it existed elsewhere in the world and across many cultures. Pork may have gained more acceptance around the world after the spread of Christianity, where it was also introduced to many populations where it had not existed (such as some island nations and elsewhere).

As for ritual ablution, that was even more common than any mention of pork (since pigs were rare in some places, but water was always a common factor for survival generally).

It can safely be said that in just about all ancient cultures, from Africa, all the way to Japan, and across the entire map, ritual purification played an important role in pre worship preparations, usually as a sign of reverence and respect. The methods of worship were also generally the same worldwide, and included gestures of submission that are commonly seen practiced by muslims today, but had existed since ancient times across the world. Ritual ablution and worship was performed in practically the same way in Ancient Egypt, the ancient middle east, Ancient Vedic Civilization, Ancient Han China, Ancient Japan, and elsewhere, even in Tibet and by many tribes around the world.

The practitioner would purify their body and intent, with the potentially symbolic purification with water, and would then bow and prostrate to God while praying and praising the God.

There were often even gestures specific to supplication and requests.

Early Christians even prayed this way, and even nontheistic Buddhists. This form of worship is still widespread in the world, though has almost entirely been discarded in Europe and America.

I believe cleaning and washing was to keep diseases under control in places where large amounts of people gathered. I dont really believe that 'god' demanded humanity do so at all.

I work today freedomstands, but I will come back to this discussion tonight

Its likely that general washing was to prevent disease, but washing before private worship seems to be more symbolic for approaching God with purity and respect.

Post: #169

LysaStrata  Wrote:

To clarify, I still think God has a body---it is by His spirit that He is everywhere.

Think of it like a power station---and electricity flows out along the lines.

Gen 1:26 uses "image and likeness"

2 Cor 11:7 uses "image and glory"


I am comfortable that "image" is a body of some sort which would not limit God's power as He has His spirit.


Since the Bible outlines a very specific process, I would be very interested in this "hedge bet" religious view that you believe will "cover" you in any event?

If God has a body, even if God's spirit is everywhere, if God has a body then God is contained within some realm, and contained by some dimensions of structure, within something, rather than encompassing everything. The God I'm promoting encompasses everything and is literally infinite, not confined by any dimensions or within anything. Whatever God is within would be greater in size than God, and encompassing God, while God can not be encompassed. I think there are verses I've shown that say something that indicate God can not be contained and is literally filling everywhere.

The tselem of God to me, if anything, refers to some quality of God, such as dominion, mercy, etc.

Thanks for visiting again though, and I agree that many people probably believe that God has a literal limited solid form and dimensions as well. If God had such a thing, it would be an illusion, like an Avatar in Hinduism, where God encompasses the illusionary form used to communicate something. If that is the case though, I would say absolutely everything everywhere is a manifestation, rather than just some things, and that leaves us again with a God who is not contained by a particular form, but is completely free from all such things.

Post: #170

LysaStrata  Wrote:

FreedomStands  Wrote:

I think that religion can and maybe should be treated as insurance and self defense, futures investment.

But which religion?! Actually with some consideration, one can figure this out on a rational rather than emotional level as well.

The ideal religion would fit in what the most other religions have claimed, have the most dangerous possibly end result (cause theres no point in following something if it doesnt matter if you follow it or not and end up getting infinite tries anyway), and should not have anything that breaks the rules of the others.

There is one religion that I believe accomplishes all of this.

It presents the greatest risk, fulfills the greatest requirements, is still easy, and does not go against what the things before it have said, so it is almost as good as following any of the other religions, but following the others isn't as useful because they don't present enough risk for not following it.

I am curious which religion you have decided will fulfill all your requirements.

And I am also curious why "truth" isn't one of your requirements? Shouldn't actually believing in your chosen religion be of utmost importance in any case?

Well, throughout ancient times around the world, there were general beliefs that were practically the same everywhere. The religions had generally started or come to accept the concept of one all powerful God that controls every aspect of life, and that this God was the power that provided what is good in experience, and what was bad, bringing misfortune and fortune to whoever for whatever reason. One's only hope, if there was any hope at all, was to ask for the goodness from this power and to worship it obediently for its favor. There were also worldwide beliefs in goodness in the afterlife provided by this power, and harm for those who didn't do good.

The requirements for religion around the world were generally all the same and very simple, and that is why this thread is called easy religion in a nutshell. The requirements were simply to wash oneself and worship the God at appropriate timings throughout the day (it was a worldwide practice to associate worship with timings of the day, without actually worshipping the sun, though at times this may have developed into sun worship and moon worship, in its original form it was a way to organize the day). Charity was the other primary good deed, and fasting was also common as a practice of holy people who are sincere about religion (or just not very hungry!).

So, to worship the one God, the God that was spoken of throughout the world, known by its attributes which are always the same. To seek favor from this one God who has the power to give goodness and badness. That is the essential religion.

The religions it covers are:

Ancient Egyptian Religion
Ancient Greek Religion (As well as the Hypsistarians, and Dionysian Monotheists)
Ancient Roman Religion
Ancient Libyan Religion
Ancient Sumerian/Babylonian/Akkadian Religion
Ancient Proto Aryan Religion (that spread across Europe, and the monotheistic aspect is retained in some traditional religions like that of Latvia or someplace where they acknoledge that Daeyus is the one God and that there are no others, that the others are just poetic personifications)
Ancient Indian/Vedic Religion (This covers a range of religions that acknowledge the supreme God under different names by different regions and culture groups such as Vishnu, Shiva, Brahman, the creation of idols were clearly spoken against in the Vedas, so what Hindus do now should not reflect on what the Vedas teach)
Ancient African Tribal Religions (all largely monotheistic)
Ancient Asian Tribal Religions (also all acknowledging the supreme God)
Ancient Han Chinese Religion (As well as Pre Han Religion, since belief in Shangdi seems to predate the Han)
Scythian,Celtic,Illyrian,Germanic,Nordic​ (All largely misunderstood from scarce accounts, many of these were translated as cognate to the Greek religion, while some developed from aryan monotheism, so the concepts can be related to how Hinduism and the vedas teach monotheism and became confused later with misunderstood symbolism taken literally)

Basic Judaism
Basic Zoroastrianism
Basic Christianity (these might offend you, but what I mean by basic Judaism and basic Christianity is following the central commandments, there is only one God and it is that one God that we should worship with all our heart)
Islam
Buddhism (Even Buddhism is covered, where ones reward will either be becoming an arahant (saint) or entering Nirvana. Though Buddhism seems largely nontheistic, after some intense research I finally found that they also have the concept that I speak of, the base of all reality from which all things come and which controls all things, but they hesitate to call this God. They worship the same way as the others, with bowing and prostrations, and this is not meant to be directed at anything, so strangely it is like doing the worship but not to God or Buddha) (Some do revere and show respect to Buddha, but there is no indication in the Pali Canon to do any such thing).

Ancient Japanese/Ainu Religion (Pre sun worship cult, when they worshipped the Kami or Kamui as the Ainu call it, which was similar to the Numen, but later became many personifications)

Ancient Native American Religion (Having many monotheistic variations worshipping the Great Spirit)
Ancient South American Religions (Some south American religions had a supreme God with the precise qualities that relate to God)
Ancient Maori High Priest Religion (Io, the God who has the correct qualities. This belief was largely kept from many people, and some had later called it invented, but it was an actual belief held by the higher priest castes, where the trusted would learn about God during a tohied ceremony. Which sounds similar to the arabic word Tawheed which is the concept of total monotheism. The Maori who promote the Io concept also claimed that the tradition had come from the Middle East)

So basically, it covers the majority of religions across the Globe and throughout history. They were all apparently informed by some means or came to realize or believe that there is only One Ultimate God, and that worship is due to this God.

So it is the One God that is to be worshipped, the God of the Continents, the God of the civilizations, the God known by qualities and attributes as one and the same with others despite the language used.

To worship in the old way, with cleanliness and gestures of respect and submission, and to hopefully win in the end.

Monotheism, Worship, and Good deeds such as Charity. That is the religion I tried to present, and its history is global in scale.

If you do it, you win according to the majority of religions, even Buddhism.

If the majority of the religions are true, you are rewarded for these efforts, and punished for failing in these.

Now it comes to widdling it down to specifically the best choice which covers all the others, yet has the most severe punishment, even worse than ceasing to exist.

It would believe in only one God as described, worship God in the ancient way, promote the appropriate good deeds, and have the worst punishment possible. That would be the religion to bet on, in order to avoid the worst possible punishment, while accomplishing the most possible other religions as well.

There is no point on placing your bet on a religion that says you'll be reincarnated, because if you follow it or not, you'll get another chance if its true, and if its not true, you've made a mistake.

So one with a terrible punishment, so if it fails in its promise of a punishment you are potentially saved, and if it true you've worked to protect yourself as best you can from the punishment it promised.

Post: #171

I consider myself a real devotee of God, and even as a member of all those aforementioned religions, devoted to the God that fits the qualities of God. I deny idol worship with confidence, because denial of idols is not only a Jewish practice, but had existed even around the world in early China, Pakistan/India, and elsewhere around the world. The strictest religious practitioners acknowledged idol worship as a misleading and degraded practice, and wrote about this in books such as the Vedas, and elsewhere. These days, many of the titles of God that I may approve of, are depicted along with idols, though many acknowledged at the time that these idols were symbolic, yet others completely denied them and would even go so far as try to deface or avoid them as blasphemy.

Can one follow the religion of Abraham and Moses, be a follower of Jesus, believing that Muhammed was the messenger of God, Worshipping Amun, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahman, Zeus Hypsistos, Ahuramazda, and so many more names which represent One God with the same qualities, and say that they have only one religion? I don't believe in a buffet religion of just making up my own religion though, I actually believe that the messages presented by the various religions has more in common, and that there is one religion which covers all these in pure monotheism.

Post: #172

My brain has been washed thoroughly.

Post: #173

LysaStrata  Wrote:

I agree that your approach does check off the most basic of requirement for Judaism or Christianity.

Unfortunately, based on what the Tanakh/Bible lays out, that would not be sufficient for salvation in either case.

In essence, you have rejected both Judaism and Christianity by this approach.

I suspect that most (if not all?) of the other listed religions have additional requirements to qualify as an adherent which would be overlooked in this highly simplified approach.

I guess what I am saying is I fail to see how you have actually established any religious belief by merely finding the overlap in global religion?

It seems you would be guaranteed to miss the mark (no matter what the mark) if you aimed to hit all the targets simultaneously. (jack of all trades but master of none)

Rather, it seems you have spent a great deal of time researching--and come to the conclusion that God is real and all cultures are seeking Him.

IMO, the next step is to evaluate the messages for truth, authenticity, character, purpose etc etc and endeavor to pick the one that presents you with God.

Can you tell me how to evaluate those things?

There is actually a singular religion that covers the bases, and I've mentioned it, I think I posed it as a question though, which religion would cover all those things, but then again I may be failing according to Christians who believe in God having a literal son since I can't accept that, but I didn't find that as a requirement in the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament generally. Rather it seems to promote the very same religion and practices that I'm trying to talk about as well!

Post: #174

GrimWolf  Wrote:

My brain has been washed thoroughly.

Hallelujah!

Post: #175

Why do we shun our Heavenly Farther...

And trade Him for "religion"the very thing that is from man!..(but because of him)

ONLY.....

Because of the lack of knowledge of the one who,not only created us,but

the one who put us here,together with each other on this earth?

Explain Religion to God...

And the lack of understanding by man,the creators of religion.

Post: #176

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Why do we shun our Heavenly Father...

And trade Him for "religion"the very thing that is from man!..(but because of him)

ONLY.....

Because of the lack of knowledge of the one who,not only created us,but

the one who put us here,together with each other on this earth?

Explain Religion to God...

And the lack of understanding by man,the creators of religion.

Post: #177

LysaStrata  Wrote:

religion just means "bind back to God"

it is a process of metamorphosis of our selves

in order to personlly manifest God (His characteristics)

Church.....(relidgion)

Where two or more or gathered in my name.there(Christ)i will also be.

http://www.hazelden.org.uk/pt03/art_pt11...church.htm

Post: #178

LysaStrata  Wrote:

religion just means "bind back to God"

it is a process of metamorphosis of our selves

in order to personally manifest God (His characteristics)

religion
c.1200, "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power," from Anglo-Fr. religiun (11c.), from O.Fr. religion "religious community,"

from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods," in L.L. "monastic life" (5c.);

according to Cicero, derived from relegare "go through again, read again," from re- "again" + legere "read" (see lecture). However, popular etymology among the later ancients (and many modern writers) connects it with religare "to bind fast" (see rely), via notion of "place an obligation on," or "bond between humans and gods."

Another possible origin is religiens "careful," opposite of negligens. Meaning "particular system of faith" is recorded from c.1300.

Modern sense of "recognition of, obedience to, and worship of a higher, unseen power" is from 1530s.

http://www.etymonline.com

Its just a word anyway, I use the modern sense of the world from the 1530s

Post: #179

So the religion I'm promoting here, I feel, does fulfill the requriements of many others, and even avoids what might be the worst possible punishment if such a punishment exists.

The ancient religions did not have really severe requirements usually, purification and worship were a regular part of life, only now does it seem like an extra hassle to perform such things during a busy schedule. In Rome for example, and even Egypt, it wasn't uncommon to worship privately or at public places of worship throughout the day in intervals between regular work.

I'm not totally sure which requirements in Judaism and Christianity as suggested in the Bible are not met by worshipping one God in the traditional manner.

Post: #180

But even if it seems to fail by some standards, it shouldn't fail by the standard that has the worst possible punishment. I really don't think the other religions requirements are not met, or that they have greater standards that are not being met etc. It isn't really a jack of all trades thing I'm suggesting for people, there is only one actual religion that I reccomend that I find covers all the bases that I mentioned. The only ones it might not cover are any religions requiring belief in literal Gods besides God alone, so anything that is more literally polytheistic, and that includes some interpretations of Christianity, though I think the religion promoted by Jesus was in line with this religion that I'm talking about, and in line with Judaism too, even if it doesnt follow all the interpretations and opinions of Rabbis and things.