Jack Hammer  Wrote:

FreedomStands  Wrote:

I think the word manifestation often brings to mind the idea of actually appearing, similar to incarnation. What you're saying is fine though. The behavior of Jesus was certainly righteous and good, and would remind people of religious conduct and perhaps led them to become more religious and things.

How does that concept play a role in modern circumstance... why do we not see a situation where all that is good takes a big show trip to correct us... well ya know ... why not stop all the shit that is wrong ? why let it continue ...

seeing as only you folks have the real answers and a power that is beyond us mortal clumsy folk... can you lay out a sure fired plan that will insure that my friends will not burn in hell ...? I worry about my buddies...

Great question. I understand you may not be entirely serious, but I'll answer anyway as best I can.

The worst possible end result is eternal hell.

Most religions suggest the same things to avoid it, even if the nature of the punishment seems slightly different between the religions.

They nearly all suggest worshipping God and doing good deeds.

The traditional way of worshipping was like what I wrote about earlier, there is one religion that is known for doing it more than others, but it was standard across the world in ages past.

The good deeds were usually always the same, charity, kindness, patience, fasting at certain times, sincerity, and things like that.

It is unknown if hell exists or will exist at any time.
It is unknown what happens after death to the dead person if anything at all.

It is not wise to bet on nothing happening if something is going to happen.
It is not wise to bet on something happening that couldn't be prepared for.

It is not useful to bet that the worst possible thing will happen without any hope of avoiding it.

It is useful to bet that the worst possible thing will happen while having hope that the worst possible thing can be avoided, and working towards avoiding it.

The method prescribed by the majority has generally been the same throughout history.

The idea is that whatever has power over your future is what can be relied upon to save you from any trouble then.

It does not help to not call upon God, expecting that there is no such thing that would listen to you.

It is unwise to expect that you'll be saved from any trouble without even attempting anything to prevent trouble.

It is useless to call upon what has no control over anything.

God can be defined as whatever has control over everything past, present and future.

There may be no such thing, but expecting there to be no such thing does not help if there is such a thing that you didn't call upon because you thought there was no such thing.

Your only hope then is to call upon whatever has all the power, God, and to ask it for help, to worship it, and to do good.

It is unknown if it dislikes worship, all religions indicate that it likes and appreciates thanks and worship.

It may be that all religions are wrong, but there is no way for you to know that in this case.

Call upon the ultimate power, the all powerful God, and be respectful. If it is true that it has immense power over your fortune and misfortune in the present and future, it is wise to approach it carefully, with fear and respect.

It is this hypothetical power that can save you from a hypothetical hell. Worship it in the traditional manner throughout the day, live your normal functional life, find opportunities to do good and charity, and die in submission to this power, and hope for the best.

In the end, you may never wake up, or you may discover that it was nothing that could have been anticipated, or you may discover that you had wagered correctly, worshipped the powerful one, and may be favored in the afterlife.

Believing in universal salvation does not benefit a person, because doing this or that doesn't matter, you'll be saved anyway if its true, and you'll be mistaken if you find its not true.

Believing in reincarnation does not benefit a person, because doing this or that doesn't matter, you'll be reincarnated if it is true, or you'll find that you're mistaken if it is not true.

Believing in ceasing to exist at death does not benefit a person, because doing this or that doesn't matter, you'll never live again if it is true, or you'll find that you're mistaken if it is not true.

Believing in hell and paradise benefits a person, because doing this or that does matter, if you never live again you've only lived a life doing good, and if you were right you will be rewarded and will have avoided or at least attempted to avoid the punishment of hell.

Believing in a God who does not interfere with people does not benefit a person, because doing this or that doesn't matter, if you are right then it never mattered, and if you are wrong you will have been mistaken and may be potentially punished.

Believing in a God who only loves and forgives does not benefit a person, because doing this or that doesn't matter, if you are right then God forgives you, and if you are wrong, you will not have prepared for the God that punishes.

Believing in an inferior God does not benefit a person, because the Ultimate with all the power should be relied on and called upon, never anything less than the Ultimate in every way (Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Infinite). If you are wrong and there was a greater God then you would have been mistaken. You should call upon the greatest of the great, of which there is no greater possibility.

Believing in a God that only harms does not benefit a person, because it leaves a person with no hope, and if they were wrong then they never worked towards the mercy and beneficial aspect of the God.

Believing in a God that does no harm does not benefit a person, because then it is harmless and is not a threat to be concerned about. If one discovers they were wrong, they may not have worked to avoid the harmful aspect of the God.

It is wise to believe and anticipate the possibility of a God that has power over both harm and benefit, it leaves a person with the hope to work towards the beneficial aspect, and to avoid the harmful aspect, if it is false, a person has only done good to gain good from the God, and if it is true, then a person has worked to defend themselves from harm.

So there is only one wise religion. It estimates potential harm and potential benefit, and has an ultimate power that controls the harm and the benefit and one has hope to work for the benefit, and defense to work against the harm. Perfect religion.

If the God will only listen to an intercessor, the intercessor is the true holder of power. If the God dislikes people trying to use intercessors, the person will be in trouble for trying to make partners or claim that another has power besides God. So it is God alone to be called upon, God being defined as the Ultimate and All Powerful that Knows everything, is everywhere, and is infinite without limitations.

All religions generally promote the same one God, with the same qualities, but then have additional things which render it pointless to follow, such as reincarnation, or whatever else.

The religion to bet on will have lots of back up, will give only one chance (because if there are more chances, thats great, but you should be working like there is only one just in case there is really only one), have the worst possible punishment, the most powerful God, and does not radically oppose the religions of the past, but has been indicated to people throughout history. This is one religion, it is submission to God through worship and good deeds, and it is a real religion, not one that I've just invented, and it has existed throughout the ages, and it practiced by many to this day.

Why does god let bad things happen to good people?

I had a 3 year old ask me that ... I couldn't answer it can you?

Never judge a book by its cover... I understand that you may not be entirely serious or knowledgeable but I will ask you anyway ...

http://www.usbible.com/Sin/original_sin.htm

snip
"The doctrine of sin stands out as one of the most effective manipulative devices ever invented. It has a subtle terrorizing effect which intimidates believers into accepting the Church's view that there is an almighty deity who takes interest in their affairs. If he was only a creator, he would leave us alone to go about our business. But if he is a personal God who takes issue with our behavior, then we have cause to be mindful of his will.

The idea of a mind-reading, all-seeing deity as judge, jury and executioner, has an Orwellian scariness to it. Is it impossible to entertain heretical private thoughts without fear of punishment? Does it pursue us into death? Is there no escape?

The reason for believing in sin rests on the say-so of Church authorities. There is a suspicious smell to this. If you violate Church law, you violate God's law. Violate God's law and God will punish you. And how do we know the Church speaks for God? Answer: because Church authorities insist on it. It goes in circles. That is why unquestionable faith is so important to these people. Their reasoning can make you dizzy. In reality, believers are not conforming to God's law; they are conforming to Church law. "

The assumed theology is that "Jesus died for our sins" and that came from the whole theology of "Original sin"

Church (in the formal sense) or not
the rest of what is built upon this ideal would tend to crumble.

If there is no original sin
there is little need in salvation, as it is currently prescribed

If those who chose to do so would investigate the origins of the theologies presented (for example) in this thread, one might be able to understand what their "faith" is built upon.

One can't just pull religious theology out of thin air
oh
well
wait

that's exactly what happened.

Begin at the beginning

unfortunately, the beginning is NOT Genesis 1.

Using your cost/benefit analysis on the "the way is through Jesus":



If (as stated in the NT) the way to God is a specific process through Jesus, and you do it--you are accepted.

If the way to God is a specific process through Jesus and you do not do it--you are rejected.

If the way to God is a more general monotheistic worship and general charitable goodness, and you do only this (but not the specific process from the NT through Jesus) and this is true, you are accepted.

If the way to God is a more general monotheistic worship and general charitable goodness, and you choose to do the more specific process from teh NT through Jesus, you are still accepted (with honors, I imagine).



In this analysis, the only risk of rejection is by not following the specific process as laid out in the New Testament with salvation through Jesus Christ.

So the Bible, that you support is the infallible Word of God, just created itself? Perhaps "wrote" itself is a better question.

Where do you think these philosophical ideals hatched?

you have pulled theology out of your own understanding and created God in your image, complete with a savior.

Nice