Post: #2761

So the new way I plan on using the material probably is with individual in-depth articles on each culture being discussed, covering the basic religious themes and practices that are common throughout many world religions and cultural religions and some history as to what they transformed into or where the beliefs and practices went.

Post: #2762

Quote:Isaiah 46:9
Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.

Why it gets away? It has all the power, nothing is greater to execute punishment on it, it controls all reality, it is not subject to anything, everything is subject to it.

Why does it punish people? Because it sets the rules and can execute whatever decision it makes.

Isaiah repeated the words that yaldabaoth said when he sinned.
Isa.43 [11] I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.
In isaiah god keep boasting about himself and he told us not to do that for boasting is an evil, isaiah the puppet of yaldabaoth and the greatest prophet of the jews

What a good example that god is to follow was is not god that asked "what is the point in telling people not to lie when the speaker himself lies ?" This earth is liying !@#$hole for parents tell their kids not to lie to, then, only show them, a few day's later, that they lie themselves.

Your god is a dictator who rules by injustice, i will never bow to him and do what ever i can to destroy him, how can a god that is injust have a spirit which IS the truth ?
You only repeat what you said before like a vinyl record that is stuck and carefully avoiding my arguements, well thats your choice your will. It is a show of your ignorance, your blindness.

You can post all the verses in the bible that you can find but know that it was you that said that the bible is corrupt for that was written in the quran and the quran does not agree with your model about the ultimate.

Sea.

Post: #2763

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Quote:Isaiah 46:9
Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.

Why it gets away? It has all the power, nothing is greater to execute punishment on it, it controls all reality, it is not subject to anything, everything is subject to it.

Why does it punish people? Because it sets the rules and can execute whatever decision it makes.

Isaiah repeated the words that yaldabaoth said when he sinned.
Isa.43 [11] I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.
In isaiah god keep boasting about himself and he told us not to do that for boasting is an evil, isaiah the puppet of yaldabaoth and the greatest prophet of the jews

What a good example that god is to follow was is not god that asked "what is the point in telling people not to lie when the speaker himself lies ?" This earth is liying !@#$hole for parents tell their kids not to lie to, then, only show them, a few day's later, that they lie themselves.

Your god is a dictator who rules by injustice, i will never bow to him and do what ever i can to destroy him, how can a god that is injust have a spirit which IS the truth ?
You only repeat what you said before like a vinyl record that is stuck and carefully avoiding my arguements, well thats your choice your will. It is a show of your ignorance, your blindness.

You can post all the verses in the bible that you can find but know that it was you that said that the bible is corrupt for that was written in the quran and the quran does not agree with your model about the ultimate.

Sea.

Can you tell me more about Yaldabaoth or whatever and everything else you believe?

Post: #2764

FreedomStands  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Quote:Isaiah 46:9
Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.

Why it gets away? It has all the power, nothing is greater to execute punishment on it, it controls all reality, it is not subject to anything, everything is subject to it.

Why does it punish people? Because it sets the rules and can execute whatever decision it makes.

Isaiah repeated the words that yaldabaoth said when he sinned.
Isa.43 [11] I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.
In isaiah god keep boasting about himself and he told us not to do that for boasting is an evil, isaiah the puppet of yaldabaoth and the greatest prophet of the jews

What a good example that god is to follow was is not god that asked "what is the point in telling people not to lie when the speaker himself lies ?" This earth is liying !@#$hole for parents tell their kids not to lie to, then, only show them, a few day's later, that they lie themselves.

Your god is a dictator who rules by injustice, i will never bow to him and do what ever i can to destroy him, how can a god that is injust have a spirit which IS the truth ?
You only repeat what you said before like a vinyl record that is stuck and carefully avoiding my arguements, well thats your choice your will. It is a show of your ignorance, your blindness.

You can post all the verses in the bible that you can find but know that it was you that said that the bible is corrupt for that was written in the quran and the quran does not agree with your model about the ultimate.

Sea.

Can you tell me more about Yaldabaoth or whatever and everything else you believe?

I am done with you.

Post: #2765

I hate it when my emotions get the better of me.

Yaldabaoth = the lesser god
Seabaoth = the greatest god
Pistis = your ultimate

Pistis is what hey did not understand, that is what i call the void. yalda and seabaoth are subjest to pistis, the void, and pistis, looking at the scripture, has put a wall around his/her heaven. They thought so because no one can enter, my words are "it is not a heaven" it is void. And as they thought so they reasoned to make it apparent for that is the purpose of reason.

The rational mind reasons and so it can not understand fully. To understand you must go out of your mind, out of reason. To do that you must meditate and lose all connections to this physical plane, all connections to the body, who succeed for the first time have the sensation that the world flips upside down as if one travels through a mirror, the scary gate.

Now i am done.

Sea.

Post: #2766

LoP Guest  Wrote:

FreedomStands  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Isaiah repeated the words that yaldabaoth said when he sinned.
Isa.43 [11] I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.
In isaiah god keep boasting about himself and he told us not to do that for boasting is an evil, isaiah the puppet of yaldabaoth and the greatest prophet of the jews

What a good example that god is to follow was is not god that asked "what is the point in telling people not to lie when the speaker himself lies ?" This earth is liying !@#$hole for parents tell their kids not to lie to, then, only show them, a few day's later, that they lie themselves.

Your god is a dictator who rules by injustice, i will never bow to him and do what ever i can to destroy him, how can a god that is injust have a spirit which IS the truth ?
You only repeat what you said before like a vinyl record that is stuck and carefully avoiding my arguements, well thats your choice your will. It is a show of your ignorance, your blindness.

You can post all the verses in the bible that you can find but know that it was you that said that the bible is corrupt for that was written in the quran and the quran does not agree with your model about the ultimate.

Sea.

Can you tell me more about Yaldabaoth or whatever and everything else you believe?

I am done with you.

The Qur'an and the Bible both agree on my model of the Ultimate, the Qur'an even more clearly than the Bible sometimes, though the Bible also does too.

God is not a parent, nor does God have to do what it tells other people to do. If God says "drink water" does that mean God is some being that drinks water the way we do?

I never "carefully avoided" your arguments, I always have responded to you directly as far as I know.

You believe in two Gods perhaps, one is the evil God, and one is the good God, but then why does the good God not stop the evil God, if it is so good? Why does the good God not stop the tears of the crying families of victims by bringing them back to life? The good God just sits back and watches and talks about "free will" and lets the evil God do whatever it wants? Then that is not a "good" God at all, but an apathetic one, that seems to do nothing at all.

I don't believe in this dual God system though, even if there were such a thing, I'd believe in what encompasses them all rather than just one or the other.

Don't be "done" with me before you've even answered the questions and explained yourself while accusing me of being the one who avoids your arguments.

I'm not avoiding your arguments, I'm stating things directly related to what you are saying.

Now I'm going to look up who this Yaldabaoth is:

Oh, another name for the "demiurge" or "public worker".

Well, I'm totally against that later interpretation of gnosticism.

"The first and highest aspect of God is described by Plato as the One, the source, or the Monad. This is the Good above the Demiurge, and manifests through the work of the Demiurge. The Monad emanated the demiurge or Nous (consciousness) from its "indeterminate" vitality due to the monad being so abundant that it overflowed back onto itself, causing self-reflection.[7]"

^ Richard T. Wallis, Jay Bregman, International Society for Neoplatonic Studies (1992). Neoplatonism and Gnosticism. SUNY Press. ISBN 9780791413371. http://books.google.com/?id=WSbrLPup7wYC...#PPA55,M1.

The unmoved mover (οὐ κινούμενον κινεῖ ou kinoúmenon kineῖ) is a philosophical concept described by Aristotle as a primary cause or "mover" of all the motion in the universe.[1] As is implicit in the name, the "unmoved mover" is not moved by any prior action.
^ Aristotle's Natural Philosophy: Movers and Unmoved Mover

"The Monad or "the One" sometimes also described as "the Good". This is the dunamis or possibility of existence.
The Intellect, or Intelligence, or, to use the Greek term, Nous, which is described as God, or a Demiurge. It thinks its own contents, which are thoughts, equated to the Platonic ideas or forms (eide). The thinking of this Intellect is the highest activity of life. The actualization of this thinking is the being of the forms. This Intellect is the first principle or foundation of existence. The One is prior to it, but not in the sense that a normal cause is prior to an effect, but instead Intellect is called an emanation of the One. The One is the possibility of this foundation of existence. "

All this means the One is the first and it has an intellect which influences the universe that came from it.

The One, Monad, is the Hypsistos and the only God.

The Demiurge of Neoplatonism is the Nous (mind of God), and is one of the three ordering principles:

Arche (Gr. "beginning") - the source of all things,
Logos (Gr. "word") - the underlying order that is hidden beneath appearances,
Harmonia (Gr. "harmony") - numerical ratios in mathematics.

These are not individual entities, these are all descriptive attributes and abilities of the One.

Later...

Iamblichus describes the One as a monad whose first principle or emanation is intellect (nous), while among "the many" that follow it there's a second, super-existent "One" that is the producer of intellect or soul (psyche).

The "One" is further separated into spheres of intelligence; the first and superior sphere is objects of thought, while the latter sphere is the domain of thought. Thus, a triad is formed of the intelligible nous, the intellective nous, and the psyche in order to reconcile further the various Hellenistic philosophical schools of Aristotle's actus and potentia of the unmoved mover and Plato's Demiurge. This was one of the reasons that Iamblichus and his teacher Porphyry came into conflict.

"Gnosticism presents a distinction between the highest, unknowable God and the demiurgic “creator” of the material."

I don't agree with this stuff, it is based on initially good stuff, but is twisted into a gross dualism.

Now see if you can answer my questions above? As well as these below:

You say there are 2 powers.

1 power does evil
1 power does good

Why does the good power let the evil power do evil?
Why does the good power not reverse what the evil power does?
Why does the good power not bring the dead back to life or place a barrier to protect people?

This may be because there are no two powers, and gnosticism is a broken system. There is only the Monad, the One, the Source, from which all comes.

Please don't give up on me so fast, talk to me more.

Post: #2767

My ultimate doesn't have a wall, and can't have a wall, because it is infinite, it has no borders, it can't be contained by anything.

"In Greek mythology, Pistis (Πίστις) was the personification of good faith, trust and reliability. She is mentioned together with such other personifications as Elpis (Hope), Sophrosyne (Prudence), and the Charites, who were all associated with honesty and harmony among people.[1]"

^ Theognis, Fragment 1. 1135

______

Why do you call one a "greater God" when it does nothing to save people from the "lesser" and lets a criminal run free, according to you?

Post: #2768

In the Ophite and Sethian systems, which have many affinities with that last mentioned, the making of the world is ascribed to a company of seven archons, whose names are given, but their chief, “Yaldabaoth” (also known as "Yaltabaoth" or "Ialdabaoth") comes into still greater prominence.

In the Apocryphon of John circa 120-180 AD, the Demiurge arrogantly declares that he has made the world by himself...


Weird, how did you get into this stuff? Were you born into a gnostic family?

"The classical Sethian doctrine of the 1st and 2nd centuries has exerted a pervasive inspirational influence upon certain contemporary mystics and esotericists. "

Post: #2769

Quote:You believe in two Gods perhaps, one is the evil God, and one is the good God, but then why does the good God not stop the evil God, if it is so good? Why does the good God not stop the tears of the crying families of victims by bringing them back to life? The good God just sits back and watches and talks about "free will" and lets the evil God do whatever it wants? Then that is not a "good" God at all, but an apathetic one, that seems to do nothing at all.

I believe there are many gods.

The good one does stop the evil one or did he not send isa, jesus, and many more who are not known. If the good does all the work how can we show our good side? Freewill yes and he sended his son and touched others just like the evil one does his own evil on earth. We make our own choices, evil try's to seduce people while the good reveals the evil of the seduction. Appart from that he knows that good overcomes evil. A good parent does not do everything for his child, the parent would let his child swim on his own so the child learns.

Post: #2770

I don't care much for the whole Biblical versions of the Adam and Eve thing which the Sethian Gnostics later used as well a the basis for their story.

I don't think a tree or a fruit can contain any wisdom or power either.

Go ahead and destroy Yaldabaoth, I wouldn't mind if you did, seems like a stupid idea anyway.

Before this retarded Judaic influence, pre-gnostic Platonism and Neoplatonism had better ideas.

Post: #2771

Quote:Don't be "done" with me before you've even answered the questions and explained yourself while accusing me of being the one who avoids your arguments.

Well, I'm totally against that later interpretation of gnosticism.

What you don't like a taste of your own medicine ?

I never said i agreed with gnosticism, i actual stated with explanation that they where wrong for they reasond to make their own thought apparent.

Post: #2772

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Quote:You believe in two Gods perhaps, one is the evil God, and one is the good God, but then why does the good God not stop the evil God, if it is so good? Why does the good God not stop the tears of the crying families of victims by bringing them back to life? The good God just sits back and watches and talks about "free will" and lets the evil God do whatever it wants? Then that is not a "good" God at all, but an apathetic one, that seems to do nothing at all.

I believe there are many gods.

The good one does stop the evil one or did he not send isa, jesus, and many more who are not known. If the good does all the work how can we show our good side? Freewill yes and he sended his son and touched others just like the evil one does his own evil on earth. We make our own choices, evil try's to seduce people while the good reveals the evil of the seduction. Appart from that he knows that good overcomes evil. A good parent does not do everything for his child, the parent would let his child swim on his own so the child learns.

I think a good "parent" doesn't let his child drown in a Tsunami or suffocate horribly. I think Seabaoth is as sick as Yaldabaoth, and I think they aren't even two, and even if they are, both are tiny compared to what I believe in. What I believe in would be what they use in order to even exist or operate.

Thanks for continuing to talk to me about it though, it is still interesting stuff.

There may be many things seen and unseen in this world, but I wouldn't call any of them "gods".

Post: #2773

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Quote:Don't be "done" with me before you've even answered the questions and explained yourself while accusing me of being the one who avoids your arguments.

Well, I'm totally against that later interpretation of gnosticism.

What you don't like a taste of your own medicine ?

I never said i agreed with gnosticism, i actual stated with explanation that they where wrong for they reasond to make their own thought apparent.

I used Bible quotes because I thought you might be into the Bible or something. Yeah, I don't care for latter gnosticism, even though it had roots that were much better than later dualistic versions that popped up.

I just think the whole thing is hallucinatory, I don't believe in any "form-gods" or limited Gods existing in the Universe. Even if there were such things, I wouldn't call them Gods at all. There are many powers and forces, look at the tornado, the hurricane, the stars, but I wouldn't call them "gods". They can't hear, or see, or help really, they don't control the animation or kinesis of life and reality itself.

That which encompasses, creates, and controls all the information ultimately is what is greatest, and only the greatest greatest greatest greatest infinite unencompassed unmoved mover is the one to call upon for help. It is omnipresent, all around us, right in your faces always and inside and everywhere else too. It animates reality itself and is aware of everything. Our hope rests in that alone, because it gives us all our experiences, and can give us more later too possibly.

Post: #2774

FreedomStands  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

Quote:You believe in two Gods perhaps, one is the evil God, and one is the good God, but then why does the good God not stop the evil God, if it is so good? Why does the good God not stop the tears of the crying families of victims by bringing them back to life? The good God just sits back and watches and talks about "free will" and lets the evil God do whatever it wants? Then that is not a "good" God at all, but an apathetic one, that seems to do nothing at all.

I believe there are many gods.

The good one does stop the evil one or did he not send isa, jesus, and many more who are not known. If the good does all the work how can we show our good side? Freewill yes and he sended his son and touched others just like the evil one does his own evil on earth. We make our own choices, evil try's to seduce people while the good reveals the evil of the seduction. Appart from that he knows that good overcomes evil. A good parent does not do everything for his child, the parent would let his child swim on his own so the child learns.

I think a good "parent" doesn't let his child drown in a Tsunami or suffocate horribly. I think Seabaoth is as sick as Yaldabaoth, and I think they aren't even two, and even if they are, both are tiny compared to what I believe in. What I believe in would be what they use in order to even exist or operate.

Thanks for continuing to talk to me about it though, it is still interesting stuff.

There may be many things seen and unseen in this world, but I wouldn't call any of them "gods".

You agree and refuse in one go , are you fighting for the self ?
All that supersede mankind, the physical form, is a god to us.

Post: #2775

LoP Guest  Wrote:

FreedomStands  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

I believe there are many gods.

The good one does stop the evil one or did he not send isa, jesus, and many more who are not known. If the good does all the work how can we show our good side? Freewill yes and he sended his son and touched others just like the evil one does his own evil on earth. We make our own choices, evil try's to seduce people while the good reveals the evil of the seduction. Appart from that he knows that good overcomes evil. A good parent does not do everything for his child, the parent would let his child swim on his own so the child learns.

I think a good "parent" doesn't let his child drown in a Tsunami or suffocate horribly. I think Seabaoth is as sick as Yaldabaoth, and I think they aren't even two, and even if they are, both are tiny compared to what I believe in. What I believe in would be what they use in order to even exist or operate.

Thanks for continuing to talk to me about it though, it is still interesting stuff.

There may be many things seen and unseen in this world, but I wouldn't call any of them "gods".

You agree and refuse in one go , are you fighting for the self ?
All that supersede mankind, the physical form, is a god to us.

I just call them things, I only call God what produced all the information that everything is made of, what continues to sustain all this information within itself, encompassing it entirely and pervading through it all while actively animating all motions and events, like the atoms moving and whatever other things we experience.

As for Yaldabaoth, I don't fear such a creature, or even believe it exists. If it does, it is still under the Ultimate, animated by it, sustained by it, and all that. The One, the Monad, the Hypsistos, the Panentheos, is the only thing I call God, uncreated creator, unmoved mover, first that always existed and is infinite, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and all that.

I don't think these extra complicated beliefs with multiple gods and stuff are really required. Life is easy if one just recognizes, One all powerful infinite uncreated first source that is God, having power over all information, try to get the good stuff, and avoid the bad stuff. Simple as that!