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Easy Religion in a Nutshell
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 14792
02-21-2012 03:07 PM

 



Post: #2776
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
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FreedomStands  Wrote: (02-21-2012 02:27 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (02-21-2012 02:18 PM)
FreedomStands  Wrote: (02-21-2012 02:10 PM)
I think a good "parent" doesn't let his child drown in a Tsunami or suffocate horribly. I think Seabaoth is as sick as Yaldabaoth, and I think they aren't even two, and even if they are, both are tiny compared to what I believe in. What I believe in would be what they use in order to even exist or operate.

Thanks for continuing to talk to me about it though, it is still interesting stuff.

There may be many things seen and unseen in this world, but I wouldn't call any of them "gods".

You agree and refuse in one go chuckle, are you fighting for the self ?
All that supersede mankind, the physical form, is a god to us.

I just call them things, I only call God what produced all the information that everything is made of, what continues to sustain all this information within itself, encompassing it entirely and pervading through it all while actively animating all motions and events, like the atoms moving and whatever other things we experience.

As for Yaldabaoth, I don't fear such a creature, or even believe it exists. If it does, it is still under the Ultimate, animated by it, sustained by it, and all that. The One, the Monad, the Hypsistos, the Panentheos, is the only thing I call God, uncreated creator, unmoved mover, first that always existed and is infinite, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and all that.

I don't think these extra complicated beliefs with multiple gods and stuff are really required. Life is easy if one just recognizes, One all powerful infinite uncreated first source that is God, having power over all information, try to get the good stuff, and avoid the bad stuff. Simple as that!

We all make our choices. I am not subject to the ultimate, the void. I am subject to seabaoth and yaldabaoth has submitted to seabaoth, his son. They both do what they do for they are subject to the void from which good and evil has come. You do not stand above good or evil because in all that what you say to others you do evil and good just like i do.
I hope you see that.

If your god, the ultimate, controls everything then why does he not revive the innocent deaths ? Why does he allow thousands of kids to starve to death ?

seems to me it is your ultimate that simply sits in his chair and watches the show.

Sea.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 14792
02-21-2012 07:01 PM

 



Post: #2777
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
Perhaps this will kick you in the right direction.

If you say there is an ultimate that sustains everything, provide information for anything. It must be void of thought and feeling or it will be in conflict with itself for all the destruction it has caused because good triumphs over evil, if not than it surely has no remorse which is not good either which turns this equation the other way around. That then is the conflict going for infinity, i can not believe that that is a god for it would tear him appart and perhaps that actual happend in the very beginning, tho i do not know. The result is the two others, a product that had more than the one before.

Meditate on it plz, dream well and say hi to the white haired man and his pygmy.
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FreedomStands
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02-21-2012 07:12 PM

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Post: #2778
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
LoP Guest  Wrote: (02-21-2012 03:07 PM)
FreedomStands  Wrote: (02-21-2012 02:27 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (02-21-2012 02:18 PM)
You agree and refuse in one go chuckle, are you fighting for the self ?
All that supersede mankind, the physical form, is a god to us.

I just call them things, I only call God what produced all the information that everything is made of, what continues to sustain all this information within itself, encompassing it entirely and pervading through it all while actively animating all motions and events, like the atoms moving and whatever other things we experience.

As for Yaldabaoth, I don't fear such a creature, or even believe it exists. If it does, it is still under the Ultimate, animated by it, sustained by it, and all that. The One, the Monad, the Hypsistos, the Panentheos, is the only thing I call God, uncreated creator, unmoved mover, first that always existed and is infinite, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and all that.

I don't think these extra complicated beliefs with multiple gods and stuff are really required. Life is easy if one just recognizes, One all powerful infinite uncreated first source that is God, having power over all information, try to get the good stuff, and avoid the bad stuff. Simple as that!

We all make our choices. I am not subject to the ultimate, the void. I am subject to seabaoth and yaldabaoth has submitted to seabaoth, his son. They both do what they do for they are subject to the void from which good and evil has come. You do not stand above good or evil because in all that what you say to others you do evil and good just like i do.
I hope you see that.

If your god, the ultimate, controls everything then why does he not revive the innocent deaths ? Why does he allow thousands of kids to starve to death ?

seems to me it is your ultimate that simply sits in his chair and watches the show.

Sea.

Yeah, but the Ultimate (not literally sitting in a chair because it has no form and is infinite and omnipresent) can get away with not doing anything about the killings right away, because it is not subject to any punishment, so can create all the horrors that exist, and make it like it never happened even, or bring things back to life whenever it wants at a set time or whenever. Totally free to do that because it has nothing to fear, there is nothing higher.

As for Seabaoth, you said Seabaoth is subject to good and evil and a system of laws, so why is the system of laws that Seabaoth can just sit there and let his son Yaldabaoth (which is said to be from Yalda Bahut meaning Son of Chaos according to one wikipedia page), do whatever horrible things without reversing them or protecting people from them?

See? In my model the Ultimate can do whatever it wants, and is not subject to anything so that is why it can do whatever it wants fearlessly, and even has the power to reverse it. It does whatever it wants or has decided to do.

In the Seabaoth and Yaldabaoth model, both are subject to the laws of good and evil, and Seabaoth does nothing to protect the innocent from disasters, or bring them back to life, or whatever. What means Seabaoth the greater? Also if your model is that each new production is greater than the last, then Yaldabaoth would be greater than Seabaoth because Yaldabaoth came after.

So yeah, the one sitting and watching the show, or animating the show, can do so fearlessly, being not subject to anything. Yet Seabaoth should put an end to Yaldabaoth, which would be the right and just thing to do, or should at least put full protection on all the people so we are immune to Yaldabaoth. None of this is being done, and I believe this may be because there is no Seabaoth who fears any judgment, nor a Yaldabaoth who fears any judgment, but a fearless One that does whatever it wills and can't be held accountable for anything because nothing is greater than it, it creates the laws and doesn't have to live by them because it isn't a human, it would be like asking a fish to breath just because you do, or you to breath in water when you aren't a fish. God is not a fish or a man, and not a creation at all, the creations do what it wills, and it makes the laws, and it executes and animates the judgments and all that.

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
[Image: E3D5_4F3F3AB2.gif]
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2012 07:14 PM by FreedomStands.) Quote this message in a reply
FreedomStands
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02-21-2012 07:23 PM

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Post: #2779
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
LoP Guest  Wrote: (02-21-2012 07:01 PM)
Perhaps this will kick you in the right direction.

If you say there is an ultimate that sustains everything, provide information for anything. It must be void of thought and feeling or it will be in conflict with itself for all the destruction it has caused because good triumphs over evil, if not than it surely has no remorse which is not good either which turns this equation the other way around. That then is the conflict going for infinity, i can not believe that that is a god for it would tear him appart and perhaps that actual happend in the very beginning, tho i do not know. The result is the two others, a product that had more than the one before.

Meditate on it plz, dream well and say hi to the white haired man and his pygmy.

The God created "good and evil", and "harm and benefit" and this is specific to humans and other creatures that think similarly to us maybe, and the God is said to judge by this concept, while not being subject to it because God isn't a human itself, it makes the rules for everything. In other realities that it makes, the rules could be entirely different.

All the thoughts and feelings that can possibly happen and exist were created by it, and not only that, they are sustained and animated by it too. So it is better aware of all emotions everyone feels, all the humor, all the sadness, everything in every possible detail because it is everywhere, those things are made by it, and from it, and it is even animating and sustaining those things when they exist, completely behind and within everything and also aware in every way.

So in that sense, it is not "void of thought and feeling" because then thought and feeling wouldn't exist. It is best aware of those things, but those are things it created, just like any rules or anything else, so it is not subject to any of them. They don't encompass God, God encompasses them. What God creates is lesser than God, within God, and God can destroy the information easily and make new information in its place.

Thank You though, for giving me that to meditate on.

These human emotions are unique to humans, something given to humans by God, created by God. God is nothing like a human though, not having form, nor even the same kind of thinking processes which are so limited as ours, or the physical chemical emotional processes we have. These are all creations of God. What I call God is Creator, Producer, Sustainer, Animator, Lawmaker, Executor of all events and judgments but subject to no laws, completely of free will and decision, with the unique ability to create from nothing but itself, within itself which is infinite and all encompassing.

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
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LoP Guest
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02-21-2012 07:51 PM

 



Post: #2780
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
Quote:In the Seabaoth and Yaldabaoth model, both are subject to the laws of good and evil, and Seabaoth does nothing to protect the innocent from disasters, or bring them back to life, or whatever. What means Seabaoth the greater? Also if your model is that each new production is greater than the last, then Yaldabaoth would be greater than Seabaoth because Yaldabaoth came after.

No they embody it, seabaoth emoby's good and yalda evil. Yalda sinned by calling himself the supreme god for he did not see to what he was subject while his son did. I said before seabaoth sended his own son, even the quran acknowledges that god send a messenger, and touched people to do the right thing, so he did help us. I said that before, sad that forgot already. Yalda did a similar thing which i do not wanna know about.
Seaboth is greater tho he is the SON of yalda so yalda came first, that resembles the fact that good triumphs over evil. The paradox. My rational mind is having a headache each time i try recall what i see when i go out of my mind. Reasoning will never solve this puzzle and i know you wil not be satisfied by that, fact is that it require faith. In fact there is no reasoning that would give a satisfieing answer.

Funny that you write their names with a capital letter for it is just a ramble of reasoning by which they tryed to put it down in words. Your ultimate is not limited by rules but does that not count for emotions, some go crazy with anger when you hit a fly on the wall others feel sorrowness because a life, the fly, has died.

By what rules would emotion act? and how does your ultimate handle that ?

Cya tomorrow,
Sea.
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FreedomStands
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02-21-2012 09:38 PM

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Post: #2781
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
LoP Guest  Wrote: (02-21-2012 07:51 PM)
Quote:In the Seabaoth and Yaldabaoth model, both are subject to the laws of good and evil, and Seabaoth does nothing to protect the innocent from disasters, or bring them back to life, or whatever. What means Seabaoth the greater? Also if your model is that each new production is greater than the last, then Yaldabaoth would be greater than Seabaoth because Yaldabaoth came after.

No they embody it, seabaoth emoby's good and yalda evil. Yalda sinned by calling himself the supreme god for he did not see to what he was subject while his son did. I said before seabaoth sended his own son, even the quran acknowledges that god send a messenger, and touched people to do the right thing, so he did help us. I said that before, sad that forgot already. Yalda did a similar thing which i do not wanna know about.
Seaboth is greater tho he is the SON of yalda so yalda came first, that resembles the fact that good triumphs over evil. The paradox. My rational mind is having a headache each time i try recall what i see when i go out of my mind. Reasoning will never solve this puzzle and i know you wil not be satisfied by that, fact is that it require faith. In fact there is no reasoning that would give a satisfieing answer.

Funny that you write their names with a capital letter for it is just a ramble of reasoning by which they tryed to put it down in words. Your ultimate is not limited by rules but does that not count for emotions, some go crazy with anger when you hit a fly on the wall others feel sorrowness because a life, the fly, has died.

By what rules would emotion act? and how does your ultimate handle that ?

Cya tomorrow,
Sea.

I don't think the Ultimate has emotions, like how we have emotions that are reactions. The Ultimate can't really have "reactions" in the way we do because there is nothing but it, it is doing the things itself, it is executing the actions, it is completely part of the process of anything happening, so it isn't like a surprise to it. It could make any system of rules by which to judge people, and even break those rules if it wanted to without any difficulty.

Sorry I misunderstood, I thought Seabaoth was the father of Yaldabaoth at first. I capitalize their names because I thought they were being used as names and in english one usually makes the first letters of a name with a capital letter. The names have meanings though, and Yalda Bahut is said to mean "son of Chaos" but I think it really means "Chaotic Son".

These ideas probably come from Persian ideas around that time, like Zurvanism, where the One divided into two, a force of only good, and a force of only evil called Angra Mainyu or Ahriman.

The Ultimate has decided whatever balance exists in the world, and is also the one who controlled evolution, developed the human race, and manages the populations and health and death of everything.

If it had wanted to, it could have made an insane justice system where people explode suddenly for doing things, and we would've considered such a system natural, and would've warned each new generation, and would've seen the things explode and be like "oh don't do that it will make you explode", but instead, things are the way they are, and judgment is generally suspended until the Judgment Day (or so say the ancients) where people will face the conducts of their lives and then be given reward or punishment.

God isn't under the authority of anything, but is the executor of a justice system it created itself, just like if you made a computer program and programmed that certain things have certain consequences. The difference is that, the computer can't run on its own without God being the energeia, powering the kinesis, so it isn't exactly like a computer program where we can just sit back and watch, it needs to be sustained with power and animated, so it is a bit different and God is much more directly involved and inside everything, and around everything. So in order to pick something up, God has to power the events, and animation the actions in every way, and animate the results too. So in that sense, we depend on God every moment to do anything we do, from breathing, to seeing, to thinking, to laughing, and whatever else. Knowing that our whole life and experience is in the power of God who is present everywhere entirely, is why God becomes useful for us to acknowledge and try to seek benefit from and avoid harm from. All information is known to it, because all information is made by it, operated by it, within it, and made from it.

I don't deny that some things can not be understood by people, or can not be known for certain by people, but I think that reasoning is much more crucial than faith, because by faith one can claim any kind of absurdity or lie and have nothing at all to back it up. They can say anything, and it can not make any sense at all, and then they expect you to believe it "just because". I don't think that is right. I think it should at least make sense. Linguistically and logically.

So anyway, the prayers can be heard by God, because what we say is information, and it is the process by which we say and do anything, and so it knows it, and can also give us based on what we ask if it wants to. The thing is, it isn't the same as if we asked a person for something, because when we ask a person they have a reaction and their knowledge is totally limited, their reactions are based on their own dependency on the environment and the surroundings. When asking the Ultimate, it is aware of all the possibilities, and everything going on that we don't know about, and doesn't depend on anything and can change anything to make anything else fit, so it is a very different type of power than asking a human being for something. The human being doesn't control reality and experience itself, nor does the human being take into account absolutely everything in every way, every angle, inside and out, knowing even the insects who are scheduled to die at a certain precise moment and all that.

So what we're dealing with, in my opinion, is not something that is detached from reality, but what reality depends on to move, what reality is sustained within and existing by.

I don't think one needs to fear Yaldabaoth, because even if such a creature exists, it is under the power of that which controls and animates all kinesis. That is why there is only "One" I consider God, and that is whatever has the Ultimate and Intrinsic control, the Executor of all events, experiences, actions, and reactions that exist, the decider of everything in precision, that does whatever it wants because it has the truest form of "free will" and can "will freely" being under no system or rules of how to have reactions or anything but deciding baselessly or based on things it creates such as the laws of the Universe or whatever (this being just one reality of potentially many others that are very possibly entirely different than this, not even made of the same materials or having anything we can comprehend at all because our senses are specifically involved with the things on this Earth).

If there is a battle between good and evil, that means neither is strong enough to defeat the other outright, and thus both have weaknesses, and both are unworthy in my opinion of being called truly power wielding. That which encompasses all, and is what created "good" and "evil" and makes up whatever it wants, and is right infront of us, animating reality itself, controlling every life and death, measuring their precise lifetimes and moments, knowing all experiences, giving all emotions to people. That is what I call God, that is the only Soter, that is the Nous that thinks.

I wouldn't care if some monster claimed to be the only God or whatever, that isn't why I think there is just one Ultimate.

I've explained before about how a spacial infinite can only be one. Like if something walked in exactly the same space as you, looking like you, and doing everything the same at the exact same time as you, it is just you.

Similarly an apple sitting on a desk is one apple, it is pointless to say it is a billion apples or two apples filling one space, it is just one.

A spacial infinite is in every direction infinitely. It isn't filling all space, because there is no space beyond it, it is all there is, everything is within it. There can't be two, because a second one would be taking up the same space, and thus be the same thing.

If a word has the same definition, it is the same thing being talked about. So an apple is still an apple when called pomme in french.

The Ultimate is established by reasoning, even as the Greek philosophers established the Monad must exist, as an unmoved mover, and this is done through reasoned deliberation and thinking. One realizes that an infinite regression of creators is an absurdity and there has to be an utmost base point that encompasses everything after it, because what exists after it has to be sustained by something, and if it is to continue to move, also be animated. That is how we derive that there is only One Ultimate, and can only be One Ultimate.

The "form-gods" have limited dimensions and are made of information that they did not make themselves. Because they have forms and dimensions, they must be spacially located, and are not omnipresent or all-pervading. The God I'm talking about is closer to you than your jugular vein, inside and out, all around you, within all the atoms, around all the atoms, no spaces, filling all space, it becomes a very personal God, because it is aware of all your emotions, all your behaviors, all your thoughts, because it is what gives you those things ultimately, and what animates them even. You move by it, you breath by it, you think by it, and it has power over all information within it. This is a God that is present with you everywhere, right infront of you, behind you, under you, on top of you, in the room, in the sky, on the moon, filling every place in between, filling every particle and atom, and around all those things, observing in every kind of way, completely aware, instantly allowing you to do whatever you can do. I believe such a God, is worthy of worship and acknowledgement, not because the God benefits from such a thing, but because we can benefit from such a thing, both by humbling ourselves in realization, and to try to seek the good from it rather than the bad. On the ultimate level, if it doesn't let you, you never will be able to, but I think one should still try on the immediate level where it appears we have and make choices, even if on the ultimate level those choices were decided for us by the will of the Ultimate One.

So I don't believe in any cosmic battle between two weak forces who can't overcome each other. Even if such a being triumphs over the either, the fact that it had to do battle shows a great weakness, and I'd always be afraid because it can't be relied upon.

The Ultimate is what sustains reality itself, not in conflict with anything, it decides whatever it wants, and whatever it wants is like "Be" and it is. The greatest enemy anyone can have, and the greatest friend anyone can have. The most powerful ally, the undefeatable enemy. So my suggestion is to seek good from it, and avoid the bad. It can't be defeated, because it isn't a creature, all the realities depend on it in order to exist. Undoing it would be like undoing your own air supply, it can't be harmed by anything but you can be harmed. Even your actions depend on it in order to happen, it would be like swinging in the air to try to fight it, it is futile. One should appreciate that we were made alive, and now that we are, we should try to survive as best we can.

One need not pray to a variety of things which depend on other things, but prayer should be directed only to that which is Ultimate, having all the power, all the control, all the information, all the ability and potency. That is why this is called an "easy" religion. There is only One Ultimate Power controlling everything, everything lives by it, and it is the only Soter, the only one that can save or harm, and the only one that can bring us back to life after it takes our lives, just like it brought us to exist in the first place.

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
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FreedomStands
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02-21-2012 09:54 PM

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Post: #2782
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
Vegas  Wrote: (02-21-2012 08:52 PM)
I still can't seem to comprehend why a person with a particular belief system really cares what another human being chooses to believe... Why are they so intent on trying to force their beliefs on others... Reminds me of a used car salesman that hasn't met his quota for the month...
Whenever anyone is insistent on forcing their ways or beliefs on others, that is the first red flag to turn and run the other way...
It has nothing to do with religion, it is about control...
Yeah, the problem with that idea is that Islam actually doesn't have any centralized control, the Shia and the Iranian theocracy are a minority, the Sunni are the majority, and mainstream Islam recognizes no single leader, or any leader, imams are mostly just people who hang out at a mosque and lead prayers and say some stuff, but they are essentially nobody, and Islam isn't like Catholicism with a Pope and councils, or like Mormonism with a President and living Prophet.

So even if the whole wide world becomes a muslim, it won't mean the end of disputes. Muslims are just individuals who believe in an Ultimate God, and thats it. They have a variety of beliefs and interpretations but are mostly close to each other and they don't recognize any leader, and if any leader popped up they would still probably not recognize one. There are varieties of muslim nations, and even in ancient times muslim factions fought political territory wars with each other which didn't relate to religion so much as property.

Those who want people to convert to Islam are probably excited about their religion, and think it is right, and want to share it with people. They want people to believe in the Ultimate God that they do, so that they can better relate with them and feel less alienated from them.

It isn't even like some modern brands of Christianity that say "believe in Jesus and be saved", the muslim believes you still have to do good, and belief doesn't count for much compared to charity and good conduct, belief is just one part of the picture, and understanding is more important. Islam isn't a religion about blind faith. The only part that requires faith is the ressurection, but it still explains it extensively and why it isn't an unreasonable concept if one understands the power being dealt with.

If the muslims really hated people, they would not want to share their religion with them, which is like offering paradise to people from the perspective of a muslim. Instead, they would promote all kinds of things they consider harmful and evil, to make those people go to hell and be punished.

I don't see many muslims, and I don't see them pushing their beliefs much, but maybe in some places they do. It isn't right to push beliefs, because it annoys people generally, but for some, Islam has brought happiness. For others, being around muslims might have made them unhappy, and they should try to find their way out if they can.

It isn't an "organized" religion the way Catholicism or Mormonism is, so conversions and huge muslim populations aren't a threat at all really. The Qur'an is far superior to the Bible when it comes to a lack of vulgarity and a lack of insane rules. The Biblical laws were imitated and brought into the Islamic fold after the Qur'an had been established, and this was done through other books called the hadiths which came later and may have been written by converted jews, christians, zoroastrians, and other things like that.

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
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FreedomStands
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02-21-2012 11:54 PM

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Post: #2783
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
Vegas  Wrote: (02-21-2012 11:36 PM)
FreedomStands  Wrote: (02-21-2012 09:52 PM)
Vegas  Wrote: (02-21-2012 08:52 PM)
I still can't seem to comprehend why a person with a particular belief system really cares what another human being chooses to believe... Why are they so intent on trying to force their beliefs on others... Reminds me of a used car salesman that hasn't met his quota for the month...

Whenever anyone is insistent on forcing their ways or beliefs on others, that is the first red flag to turn and run the other way...

It has nothing to do with religion, it is about control...

Yeah, the problem with that idea is that Islam actually doesn't have any centralized control, the Shia and the Iranian theocracy are a minority, the Sunni are the majority, and mainstream Islam recognizes no single leader, or any leader, imams are mostly just people who hang out at a mosque and lead prayers and say some stuff, but they are essentially nobody, and Islam isn't like Catholicism with a Pope and councils, or like Mormonism with a President and living Prophet.

Sure they do... Like every religion, their belief is their control system... The instilled belief systems in religion are stronger control mechanisms than any human leader or organization... Those belief systems have been handed down from somewhere... They just didn't sprout up one day...

The fact that all religions claim their way and only their way is the right way (control) is what has turned me away from all of them and caused me to develop my own beliefs and ignore name brand religion... I may be wrong but that is the beauty of choice...

The Qur'an says that anyone who believes in and worships God and does good deeds like charity will have their reward with God, and those who do evil such as hurting people will face the consequences if they don't amend their conduct and turn towards goodness.

So I don't know, seems kind of like a universal message about God and good works, rather than a control structure really. Even if it started in a control fashion, right now it is totally not under any control, the muslims are all on their own pretty much.

The Qur'an clearly says, there is to be no compulsion in religion, and that unlike what Christians and Jews say about the paradise in the afterlife being exclusively for them, it is for absolutely anyone who believes and worships the Ultimate God and does good works like charity and helping people and stuff.

The teachings of the Qur'an are pretty harmless I think. Contrary to popular propaganda, they don't actually tell people to just freely kill on a whim. It always says to do it in defense, never to attack, to seek an end to hostilities, to keep peace treaties, and other things like that but gives permission to kill when people are being attacked and killed and thrown out of their homes. Just basic self defense human rights stuff.

It has the most straightforward and basic theology and religious principles of any religion that I've studied.

It isn't really a "new" religion even, it was just trying to simplify things and re-introduce basic religious principles that were common around the world.

It also wasn't like the Bible which made it seem like only the B'nei Israel were getting any attention.

The Qur'an says that everyone got a messenger who taught the same principles, and that anyone from anywhere can get to paradise if they worship God and do good.

It also says no people, ethnicity, or nationality is superior to another, but everyone is equal, the best person being the one best in conduct.

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
[Image: E3D5_4F3F3AB2.gif]
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2012 12:00 AM by FreedomStands.) Quote this message in a reply
FreedomStands
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02-22-2012 12:09 AM

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Post: #2784
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
LoP Guest  Wrote: (02-22-2012 12:02 AM)
Jhikpghf

The word "Islam" is supposed to be a universal thing, that anyone who "surrenders" to the understanding that there is only One Ultimate Power that controls all harm and benefit and judgment, one comes to terms with reality and finds peace. It isn't exclusive to arabs or anything, or even arab culture. It has taken on a distinct flavor of traditions, but the message of the Qur'an seems pretty universal and general. Back in the day, that fashion of worship wasn't uncommon, and it was even more common as one regresses through the past ages. It was the common mode of worship for Jews and Christians, but also everyone else across the globe from Africa and Egypt to China and Japan, so it wasn't telling people anything new at all, that is why it often calls itself a "reminder" rather than a new message.

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
[Image: E3D5_4F3F3AB2.gif]
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FreedomStands
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02-22-2012 12:23 AM

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Post: #2785
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
So the control thing rests with the Qur'an as the main node of promoting the "meme" or control model. It is a book that no one can edit or change though, since no one allows changes to be made to it. The Book of Mormon is under the control of the LDS Church and they have edited it tremendously and can ultimately change things to whatever they want, and decide new policies and things, so that is a true control structure where there is an actual group in control.

Other than that, the people are generally free to do and think what they want, but if they adhere to the Qur'an there are certain things they aren't supposed to do, like drinking alcohol, gambling, fornicating, and stuff like that which would qualify them as a follower or not in the eyes of most other muslims.

In the end, since so many are leaving Christianity because it becomes increasingly absurd seeming, I think the two biggest factions will be believers in the Qur'an and those who are atheists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HTSwUig2-0

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
[Image: E3D5_4F3F3AB2.gif]
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2012 12:25 AM by FreedomStands.) Quote this message in a reply
FreedomStands
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02-22-2012 01:06 AM

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Post: #2786
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
Video about what it means when a person says their life flashes before their eyes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=dsKQbWoI_uo

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
[Image: E3D5_4F3F3AB2.gif]
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2012 01:10 AM by FreedomStands.) Quote this message in a reply
FreedomStands
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02-22-2012 01:09 AM

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Post: #2787
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
These are the two videos I use the most:

This one is to make people feel the Presidency is a fake scam and always rigged.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oYKMJkatzI

This one is to make people feel that the above video doesn't even matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEheh1BH34Q

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
[Image: E3D5_4F3F3AB2.gif]
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FreedomStands
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02-22-2012 06:06 AM

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Post: #2788
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
I hear lots about "freewill" but this article seems to think it isn't really the case:

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christia...ewill.html

I'll find more examples than that someday I hope, as I have already seen examples besides that, which show that the Biblical version supports an ultimate control model.

I wanted to save that article here!

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
[Image: E3D5_4F3F3AB2.gif]
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SunRa
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02-22-2012 10:36 AM

Posts: 1,441



Post: #2789
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
FreedomStands  Wrote: (02-21-2012 02:17 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (02-21-2012 02:10 PM)
Quote:Don't be "done" with me before you've even answered the questions and explained yourself while accusing me of being the one who avoids your arguments.

Well, I'm totally against that later interpretation of gnosticism.

What you don't like a taste of your own medicine ?

I never said i agreed with gnosticism, i actual stated with explanation that they where wrong for they reasond to make their own thought apparent.

I used Bible quotes because I thought you might be into the Bible or something. Yeah, I don't care for latter gnosticism, even though it had roots that were much better than later dualistic versions that popped up.

I just think the whole thing is hallucinatory, I don't believe in any "form-gods" or limited Gods existing in the Universe. Even if there were such things, I wouldn't call them Gods at all. There are many powers and forces, look at the tornado, the hurricane, the stars, but I wouldn't call them "gods". They can't hear, or see, or help really, they don't control the animation or kinesis of life and reality itself.

That which encompasses, creates, and controls all the information ultimately is what is greatest, and only the greatest greatest greatest greatest infinite unencompassed unmoved mover is the one to call upon for help. It is omnipresent, all around us, right in your faces always and inside and everywhere else too. It animates reality itself and is aware of everything. Our hope rests in that alone, because it gives us all our experiences, and can give us more later too possibly.

it's not really hallucinatory... those who have an open third eye see things that other's don't... not saying it is all as it 'appears'... lots of symbolism and filters through our associative neural pathways and the like taken into consideration and the like...

i like your last paragraph here
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LoP Guest
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User ID: 14792
02-22-2012 01:11 PM

 



Post: #2790
RE: Easy Religion in a Nutshell
Quote:I don't think the Ultimate has emotions, like how we have emotions that are reactions. The Ultimate can't really have "reactions" in the way we do because there is nothing but it, it is doing the things itself, it is executing the actions, it is completely part of the process of anything happening, so it isn't like a surprise to it. It could make any system of rules by which to judge people, and even break those rules if it wanted to without any difficulty.

That makes me say that from our perspective it is void of emotions and as emotions lead our thought, anger -> agressive thoughts, it doesn't have thought. Atleast not as we know it and that means we need to shift our perspective to something we can not achieve to really understand it so all your explanations are not satisfieing, it never reaches the full and complete picture unless one goes out of his mind but then words have no more meaning. If we where subject to it we would be able to explain it to it's full and complete picture.
That it sustains everything is logic as it is the very first product but still it is like a domino that falls against another creating a chain of events. The first responsible for the second and the second responsible for the third and so on. As we need to leave the rational world, where words have no meaning, to understand it it is futile to talk about it for we are directly in connection with good or evil and that place does not even have good or evil. Our whole essence of that what we are has no meaning there, it is void of all that what we know. We do things with a meaning and that creates good and evil but that ultimate of yours, my void, does it without meaning like a machine that runs on it's own, endlessly computing it's algorithm's. So people thought shadow was first for shadow destroy's without meaning, meaningless destruction, but they where wrong because shadow does evil with a mean to do evil like good does good with the mean to do good. Go there, your ultimate my void, and it is like one cease to exist for existence itself has no meaning there, meaning came later. Which leads us to this: it's nothing but still something but that something is void of that what we know and feel and so it is still nothing. Nothing is something and something is nothing, a nice paradox is it not.
Rules: seabaoth made rules for us, commandments of you will and an instinctive way as in natural to handle them. Seabaoth is not subject to them but to be the example he has committed himself to that, religion told us that it is no good to tell people not to lie if the speaker lies himself. A children study showed that they do not help bully's and will even avoid them. So why are children doing good out of his own will while it must be thought to make them do evil ? Seabaoth has not other rules to listen to so he listens to his own set and so he made a promise on his own name, for there is no other god above him, for there are no rules above him.

Sea.
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