lol "challenges muslims to question their allegiance to Allah" LOL how stupid is that?
Uhlaw (Eloah) and Uhlaw (Allah) are both derived from the ALH root, they are in essence the same word, and the same God. Question their allegiance to Uhlaw and switch over to Uhlaw?
It is pretty stupid to think they worship different gods I agree. It's really taking advantage of the ignorance of well meaning American Christians to sell DVDs and books.
LoP Guest lop guest User ID: 121899 09-22-2012 06:45 AM
Just to add, a Jew fluent in hebrew and Arabic living in Israel will not even question if Arabs worship the same god, because they are familiar with the subtleties of the nomenclature of the hebre and the Arabic words, el, al, etc..what they do question is who this god favors, does he favor the children of Moses or Ishmael...all in all it's all retarded IMO, neither group has any concept of loving and living in the present. They both cling to land and books for assurance and group solidarity.
LoP Guest lop guest User ID: 122083 09-22-2012 06:49 AM
lol "challenges muslims to question their allegiance to Allah" LOL how stupid is that?
Uhlaw (Eloah) and Uhlaw (Allah) are both derived from the ALH root, they are in essence the same word, and the same God. Question their allegiance to Uhlaw and switch over to Uhlaw?
It is pretty stupid to think they worship different gods I agree. It's really taking advantage of the ignorance of well meaning American Christians to sell DVDs and books.
Christians and Muslims do NOT worship the same god.
The God of Christians has a son named Jesus who died as an atoning sacrifice for humanity's sin, and was resurrected.
Muslims consider it blasphemy to even suggest that God had a son.
FreedomStands Registered User User ID: 14247 09-22-2012 06:54 AM
Posts: 24,950
lol "challenges muslims to question their allegiance to Allah" LOL how stupid is that?
Uhlaw (Eloah) and Uhlaw (Allah) are both derived from the ALH root, they are in essence the same word, and the same God. Question their allegiance to Uhlaw and switch over to Uhlaw?
It is pretty stupid to think they worship different gods I agree. It's really taking advantage of the ignorance of well meaning American Christians to sell DVDs and books.
Christians and Muslims do NOT worship the same god.
The God of Christians has a son named Jesus who died as an atoning sacrifice for humanity's sin, and was resurrected.
Muslims consider it blasphemy to even suggest that God had a son.
Yeah, because Muslims believe God is not a human being who has literal sons or children.
Quote:Oh, and praise YHWH, the El of Avraham, Yitchak and Ya'acov, and hold to the testimony of Y'ahshua ha Mashiach, Son of the living Elohim. We can come to the Father by no other name!
(You are correct about Mary, she has no power)
Those terms will especially pass with more people if pais is used rather than son and pater rather than Father, since pais can also mean servant or herald to a King and pater can also mean master and originator (God is called the pater of the stars or something in the New Testament).
Father and Son are understood too biologically in english today rather than metaphorically, and so people then think that Jesus is the biological son and that God is a man-being when God is not a man nor has literal biological children through procreation but is the creator and pater (master and originator) of all and Jesus was brought into being by the command (word) of God, thus Jesus is the "word incarnate", and all that exists was by the "word/command" of God, that is how God creates, by saying "Be" and it is, just like it describes in Genesis.
Here, this might help you (from a post comparing Mormons, Christians, and Muslims:
The muslims are likely, for the most part, ignorant of the Mormon doctrines and religion.
If one were to place the center of the Islamic religion in Mecca, Utah might be on the opposite side of the world. Likewise, the Mormon religion is almost entirely the most opposite and distant from Islam in some senses (the senses that would be most important to Muslims).
Christianity, more regionally close to the Muslims is more mystical and matches more closely with Islam and as it becomes more distant it becomes less like Islam, until one reaches the USA and particularly Utah where it becomes the most distant from Islam both literally and doctrinally.
You may be wondering what some of the differences are that have motivated such statements?
Islam has an abstract and ultimate conception of God as the first and only utmost basis for all reality, not a man. The word most commonly associated with the God of Islam is Allah which derives from the ancient semitic language word for God and is pronounced (Uhlaw)
In Mormonism, they call Elohim (the word commonly used in the Hebrew Bible, pronounced Uhlawheem, from Eloah which is pronounced Uhlaw) an exalted or ascended man, having a literal body and most believe Elohim has at least one wife who he produces literal spirit children with, and also literally had a child with Mary who produced his literal son Jesus, who they also associate with the term Jehovah (they say Jehovah is Jesus and Elohim is the Father of Jesus, both spiritually and bodily. Jehovah is originally a European transliteration of YHWH, possibly pronounced Y'h'w'hay, the ' representing a short "uh" sound often called a glottal stop).
This, among many other aspects of Mormonism, would be considered the deepest and darkest, more abhorrent sin by the standards of the Qur'an which is the book regarded as revelation by God given to the Prophet of Islam known as Muhammed (the pbuh that people often see after the name of Muhammed in Muslim writings means peace be upon him).
Most or many Christians doctrinally believe in the idea of a Trinity, that God is One Substance, having three manifestations or forms (The Father form, The Son form, and the Holy Spirit form).
The Mormons believe that Elohim is distinct from Jehovah and the Holy Spirit, that Elohim has a body, and Jesus has a body, and the Holy Spirit has no body. These three individuals are called "Godhead" but this is not how the word "Godhead" is used by Non-Mormons, instead, the Mormon "Godhead" seems to mean something more like "God team", a team of three individuals who work in accord with each other, the Father having the most authority and Jesus and the Holy Spirit being subordinate to the Father.
The mainstream Christians are usually supposed to believe God is One and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are just manifestations and eternal forms of the One and so are all equal as God.
The Muslims not only disbelieve in the Trinity and instead believe God is strictly One, having no manifested forms, having no sons or children, being non-human, having no spouse, nor mating or being a creature, but also believe that Jesus was merely a messenger of God and a creation of God like all other life forms and things that exist.
The Mormons believe also that, besides The Father having a Wife who is the Mother of all mankind, but that the Father (whom they worship henotheistically) is not the only God, but that there were a multitude of Gods before The Father, who gave birth to men, one of which was The Father and through following the eternal and ancient laws and codes (Freemasonic reference included) he was able to ascend to become an exalted man, a God and "creator" in the sense of "former" since he can't create matter which is believed to be eternal, but can shape matter to make things.
The things in common with Muslims and Mormons are just that they don't drink alcohol and they seem to shun pre-marital sex (though most devout Christians may also shun pre-marital sex, and some may even shun alcohol as well).
The Church of Latter Day Saints is the usual name for the mainstream Mormon Organization, which is a strictly hierarchal organization with ranks and high authorities. The "Latter Day Saints" is a reference to the continuing office of "Prophethood" which is like a kind of Spiritual Leader and President of the Mormon Community in the tradition of Joseph Smith the first Prophet of Mormonism and its founder, and Brigham Young, the second Prophet after Joseph Smith.
The Muslims believe Muhammed was the last Prophet and that there are no other messengers of God to come after him, thus they deny any further claims of Prophets after Muhammed whose revelatory book is the Qur'an.
The plurality of Gods in Mormon belief, a chain of Gods and Godesses going back into time almost infinitely, leaves Mormons literally "polytheistic" though they worship "henotheistically" meaning they only worship The Father, who is one of many Gods and the current ruler of this Earth.
If Muslims knew of Mormon beliefs, they would find them to be even more distasteful than the beliefs of mainstream Christians. Yet, without knowing each others beliefs, the Mormons and Muslims can get along well and may even intermarry sometimes, believing that Mormons are just a type of Christian who believes in God and abstains from alcohol and pre-marital sex.
Mormon and Muslim intermarriage would not be strongly approved of by Mormons, since marriage and the act of "sealing" between two partners is the only way to achieve later "exaltation" to become a God and Godesss and produce spirit children in the fashion of the current God-Father, Elohim.
Some Muslims are more lax about intermarriage with people of different religions that they consider "People of the Book" (followers of the Bible, the Jews and the Christians), and many muslims marry with non-muslims, though it is very common for the non-muslims who marry muslims to convert to Islam either shortly before marriage or after.
The God of Mormonism and the God of Islam are vastly different from each other. The God of Islam creating everything from nothing without any help or partnership, and is infinite and without form having nothing before it or equal to it or greater, being the first and only (more in accord with even Jewish scholarly thinking), while the Mormons believe the current God is one of many, having had a God before it, being a human man who exalted to Godhood through special laws and secrets (Freemasonic reference), and having a wife and consort who he has a kind of intercourse with to produce literal children.
These are just some of the central differences that would leave Muslims, if they were aware, condemning Mormons as deeply misled heretics who will certainly burn in hell (which the Mormons doctrinally don't believe exists) for their "shirk". The word "shirk" means "association" and is considered the worst and most unforgivable sin in Islam if one dies in the state of believing something that qualifies as "shirk", which would be associating any partners with God, any equals, or saying something is greater than God, or before God, or any number of the things that the Mormons believe due to the various doctrines apparently approved of by Joseph Smith and those after him.
In brief, here is a list of the major problems faced between muslims, christians, and mormons (theological and doctrinal issues):
Muslims:
-God is One unlike anything and unrepresentable in any literal form
-God is not a man, has no children, has no wife, does not mate, "begets not nor is begotten".
-God is the Ultimate and is the only one to be worshiped.
-Jesus is a messenger of God and the messiah (anointed one) the appointed messenger sent to the tribe of Israel.
-Jesus is not God or the Son of God in any literal sense, nor did Jesus exist eternally alongside God, but God created Jesus just as God created Adam, "Be" and it is (the special power of God to manifest whatever God wills).
-Jesus was not actually crucified, nor killed, but was saved from such an event (therefor, annulled is the idea that "Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our sins and came to life on the third day)
-Jesus worships God and is humble before God, never claiming to have been God (the word pais in Greek means "son" as well as "servant" and "herald for a king" and the word "pater" can mean "master" and "originator".)
-Jesus is born miraculously by the will of God by Mary, an unmarried virgin.
-The Holy Spirit is usually said to be the messenger angel Gabriel when it is used to refer to the Holy Spirit that assisted Jesus. Gabriel is also considered the messenger who brought the messages and revelation of God to Muhammed, the Prophet of Islam.
-Muhammed is the last prophet, and the Qur'an is the last holy book, in a series of Prophets and holy books that all taught strict monotheism but were degraded by false doctrines by later generations, corrupting the message of God each time and leading themselves into unwarranted thinking by associating partners with God or sometimes separating the attributes (names or epithets) of God into individual representations that they worshiped as distinct of God, or worshiping idols or natural elements.
-All mankind has at different periods of time received the message of God, to worship only the Ultimate, to give in charity, and to expect Judgment after the resurrection of mankind.
-Many muslims have also adopted the Christian idea of the return of Jesus (Eesa the Messiah) and the defeat of the antichrist (whom they call Dajjal) from the book of revelation but this is not mentioned in the Qur'an.
-Nobody can carry the sins of another, nor can anyone lift the burden of sin from another besides God alone, and lifting such a burden is easy for God and requires no complicated procedure or human sacrifice. God is often called by the name "Rahman" which can mean "The Most Compassionate Sympathizer" who is mentioned in the Qur'an as being "oft-forgiving...forgiving again and again".
Christians:
-There is only One God.
-God existed eternally before anything and creates "ex nihilo" meaning something like "from nothing" or "out of nothing".
-Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary miraculously.
-Jesus is the Messiah, the anointed one (The muslims agree up to this point, and the word Messiah is used in reference of Jesus in the Qur'an as well), a term that denotes being chosen by God for prophecy and even kingship such as in the case of Cyrus and David (David, King of Israel whom he is said to be the descendent of).
___________
-God is a Trinity, having three manifestations made of one substance, The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit, all being one and equal, just different forms of the One God.
-The person of Jesus of Nazareth was the "begotten son" of God, a manifestation of the "Word of God" which is said to eternally exist with God, as God. (The Qur'an agrees that Jesus is the "word of God" or "Command of God" in the sense of saying "Be" and it is, but not that Jesus is co-eternal and one with God, but rather like Adam, a creation.)
-Jesus, God in the form of The Begotten Son of God born by the Mother of God Mary suffered and died on the Cross to fulfill the the requirements to have all mankind cleared of sin, but bad people who especially don't believe in Jesus or his sacrifice will still go to hell for rejecting this gift.
-Jesus came back to life after giving his gift to the righteous dead as well, after 3 days of being dead, and then ascended into the sky to "be with the Father" who is also him.
Orthodox and Protestant objection and variation:
-Orthodox Christians believe all of the above but depart with the following but may not regard the Roman Catholic Pope as the major spiritual authority on Earth.
Protestant objection:
-Rejection of the Roman Catholic Pope as the representative authority of the Christian community or Christ.
-The Bible can be interpreted by the informed reader, and thus a priestly caste is not required to interpret scriptures authoritatively (The Protestant rejection of the Pope plays an important role in the types of Christianity that influenced the development of Mormonism).
Mormons:
-Only God is to be worshiped. (Muslims and Christians agree).
-There is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit (Muslims do not agree, Christians continue to agree).
-The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are part of the Godhead, a unity that works together in unison. (Christians agree, though they are being somewhat misled by misuse of language in this matter).
-The Father is not the Son, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. (Christians disagree and depart here).
-The Father is a man who by following certain eternal doctrines and spiritual precepts became a God.
-The Father has a wife whom he produces Spirit Children with, who incarnate into fleshy bodies on Earth.
-The Father is the literal father of both the spirit version of Jesus who existed before the Earthly incarnation of which The Father is also the literal biological father of the bodily Jesus who was born from Mary (lack of clarity arises here between Mormons if that means that The Father literally had intercourse with Mary, thus nullifying her virginity and the miraculousness of the birth).
-The Father is just one of many gods and godesses who exist and have existed since ancient times, but The Father, as the Father of humans, should be worshiped only to gain one of the three spiritual paradises.
-One must be baptized in the Mormon fashion to receive one of the three spiritual paradises or else they are left in darkness in the afterlife (this is why mormons "baptize the dead" which frees the spirit from what is usually called "spirit prison" which is where all the non-baptized go, though the Mormons disbelieve in a fiery hell.)
These seem to be the major differences that separate Muslims from Christians and Christians from Mormons.
Here is a comparison of shared qualities between Muslims, Christians, and Mormons:
Muslims, Christians, and Mormons all claim to worship God.
The Muslims believe in Allah, who they believe is the One God, the Ultimate. The word Allah comes from the ancient semitic word used most often to denote the first and highest originator of everything. The term Allah can mean (due to its possible root associations) the following:
"The Absolutely Ultimate Inviolable Singular Supremely Powerful One To Which All Reverential Worship Rightfully Belongs"
For more information you can see the following:
The word Allah has very ancient roots in the semitic languages. The roots of the word Allah seem to give the extended possible meaning of “The Absolutely Ultimate Inviolable Singular Supremely Powerful One Rightfully Worshiped Reverently” since the roots AL (Alif Laam), ALh (Alif Laam ha), and possibly ALL (Alif Laam Laam) appear to be present at once (though the main root is most often considered to be ALh).
The root AL (or EL as it is rendered at other times in regard to other semitic languages) is the “definite article” but also can mean the supreme or maximum and definitive of whatever is being spoken of. ALh implies reverential worship, veneration full of awe, and that which receives such veneration and worship. ALL indicates sacred rights, a covenant, and inviolability (inviolability means invulnerability to harm or invincibility as well as being beyond anything insulting, slanderous, or false. It is a term that can be used to mean a kind of holy sanctity that can not be degraded or brought low).
In Aramaic the word for God in the Absolute Singular form is AaLaH (the root letters are capitalized and the term can be pronounced Uhlawh). In the older Akkadian language, the word Allallu could mean something like Powerful God, and Alla in the same languages indicates to be “beyond”, while eli (uhlee) can indicate overpowering superiority and highness in authority and rank. Ela, another Akkadian word can indicate exclusivity, apartness, and uniqueness. Ellu in Akkadian can mean “holy”, “sacred”, and “pure”. Elu can mean exalted and ahulla (akhullah) can mean to be “on the other side” perhaps even potentially indicating being beyond, behind, or on the other side of the physical world or reality.
All these meanings can be considered part of the word Allah, which is also related to the Hebrew word often transliterated as Eloah which is the main part of the word used mostly in the Bible in reference to Elohim (Uhlawheem) which is commonly used to refer to God. Eloah may be slightly more similar in usage to the Arabic word “illah” which can refer to anything that is worshiped or revered. The Chaldean form of “Elah” also occurs in the Hebrew Bible to refer to God at times. The Akkadian elelu (likely pronounced uhluhloo and considered related to the Arabic word halal) indicates purity.
These same terms that seem to be part of the word Allah are described throughout the Qur’an as various qualities of Allah, confirming at least in some way that it may not be entirely incorrect to see these attributes within the potential root meanings of the word “Allah” itself (however overly inclusive and folkish this extensive etymology may seem).
Since the full meaning may not be entirely or correctly conveyed by the word God (which comes from a word thought to mean “invoked” and also since the term “God" is often associated in popular culture to the idea of an old bearded human figure among clouds which is not a depiction in accord with the teachings of the Qur’an), and since many consider Allah to be the proper title for God, a large portion of translators have left the word rendered as “Allah” in its roman text form and avoided translating it to “God” or anything else.
As a side note of possible interest, the Greeks encountered the word as Alalu, used by the Hurrians, the Greeks associated the term with the Hypsistos, the idea of the absolute highest, ultimate, and first. When Greeks encountered El, 'l or 'lh (all probably pronounced Uhluh), which was the word used in the Levantine for the supreme God and originator of everything, the Greek Philon associated El with Kronos, possibly due to the “cleaving apart” of the heavens and the earth which is a theme found in the Bible as well as the Qur’an which the word “Kronos” may mean if it means “cleaver” or “cutter”. Some ancient bilingual inscriptions equate “El the creator of the Earth” with “Poseidon” which may have also been considered the main name or attribute for the creator among some communities.
El appears at the top of a list of powers and attributes from ancient Elba as the ultimate and most ancient originator of all the natural forces and powers. Uhlah in its various spellings is basically most often found as the word designated for the most supreme and highest ancient originator among all the semitic language speaking communities and civilizations. An ancient inscription in a mine on Mount Sinai reads “El Eternal”. Hurrians called El, “El of Judgment” and “El of the Covenant” both ideas which occur in the Qur’an. El is also called “baatnyu binwaati” which means “Creator of the creatures”.
Herodotus claimed the ancient Arabians he spoke of venerated only two things, which he called “Orotalt and Alilat”. Herodotus associated Alilat with the Aryan concept of Mitra which to the Aryans meant “contract” or “covenant” and was used sometimes to imply a “divine covenant” or “divine right”. Herodotus says “The Assyrians call Aphrodite Mylitta, the Arabians Alilat, and the Persians Mitra. In addition that deity is associated with the Indian deity Mitra.” and in reference to the ancient Arabians he spoke of “They believe in no other gods except Dionysus and the Heavenly Aphrodite” and says “They call Dionysus, Orotalt; and Aphrodite, Alilat”. Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable says that Orotalt may be from a corruption of Allah Ta'ala (which means Allah the exalted or Allah the glorified). The covenant is prominently mentioned among those who believe in El and in the Qur’an, and so the association with Mitra in its original meaning unembellished by symbolic humanization may be accurate. The Qur’an mentions that some of the people at the time of the Qur’an say Alilat
Later, Christian writers would associate the God of the semitic regions and the “Saracens” (a term used for semitic people such as arabs and muslims) with the term Apollyon which is also a translation of the word Abaddon from the Bible. This understanding, if not simply to incite fear and to slander the semitic nations, may have derived from the main component of the word Apollyon which is Olluein meaning “destroy” or “destroyer” in Greek. The term Allah (pronounce Uhllawh”) and “Olluein” sound similar, so if Orotalt was the transliteration of Allah Ta’ala given by Herodotus, Olluein may have been more readily heard by the Christians encountering those who said their God is “Allah” or even among those who say their God is “Elohim” which is the name often used for God in the Hebrew Bible but probably not well known among the Christians unfamiliar with Hebrew.
The term “Destroyer”, “The Destroyer” or “God the Destroyer" may also be a possible transliteration of the Biblical epithet El Shaddai if the central component of the word “Shaddai” is derived from shadad which means to destroy or overpower and has come to imply power and might (thus El Shaddai is often translated as “God Almighty” rather than ”God the Destroyer”), but the term has been also associated with mountains, and with all combined meanings could remind muslims of the story of the mountain being utterly destroyed by Allah before Musa (Moses) at his request to see the power of Allah or other references in the Qur’an to the eventual obliteration of mountains such as before Judgment Day.
Many upon encountering the word spelled as “Allah” do not know how to pronounce it. Allah can be pronounced Uhllawh which is Uh-Lah which can be rounded slightly and elongated as UhLLaawh.
Here is a comparison of shared qualities between Muslims, Christians, and Mormons:
They all claim to believe in God and they all claim to be Monotheistic.
-The God of Muslims is the Ultimate One
-The God of the Christians is the Trinity
-The God of the Mormons is The Father who they worship Henotheistically
They all claim to frown upon pre-marital sex:
-Christians who are less religious but still identify with Christianity may be lax in this area.
-Mormons are more strict in this area, and sealing after marriage or as part of marriage is an important Mormon ritual to attain an exalted state of Godhood.
-Muslims strongly shun fornication and pre-marital sex, and virginity and chastity is usually encouraged and treasured.
They all frown upon drinking alcohol, especially excessively but:
-The Christians often drink alcohol, and alcohol is part of Roman Catholic ritual.
-Muslims are turned away from alcohol by the Qur'an and also the traditions that came later. Muslims also shun pork meat which Christians and Mormons consume despite what the Old Testament says (which is why Jews avoid pork).
-Mormons are told not to have alcohol largely from doctrinal interpretation and common practice, similarly they avoid caffiene.
The Muslims are the strictest and most populous adherents of pure monotheism in the world, also having carried on the ancient style of worship that was practiced throughout the world prior to Islam among most people of the world (it is still roughly practiced among Buddhists, Hindus, Shinto practitioners, and other traditionalist religions like the Tibetan traditional religion).
The Christians are most similar to the Muslims, especially some older Orthodox sects who continue to worship in the ancient fashion to some degree.
The Catholics diverge from the Orthodox and are even less similar to the Muslims.
The Protestant diverge from the Catholics over the Papacy, and resemble muslims only in their lack of a hierarchal priesthood.
The Mormons are more similar to Christians and least similar to Muslims, but would be considered hellbound heretics by most devout and knowledgeable (in their religious doctrines) Muslims and Christians.
The Mormons resemble the Catholics in tithing and their hierarchal rankings but are also more like Protestants were the more direct antecedent (predecessors).
So on the surface, Mormons and Western Christians and Christians at large may seem similar, but the beliefs of Mormons are not in accord with those believed by most Christians and are in complete discord with those promoted by the Qur'an and Islam.
The God of the Bible and the Qur'an are supposed to be the same though. Muslims consider Jesus the Messiah, but they don't say "son" because they feel that God is not a human being or a creature that has children. The old Christian terms of pais and Pater are understood as servant/herald and Master/Originator essentially, but to say that God has a literal son seems to insult the sublime and inviolable nature of God by bringing human biological functions into it.
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