Post: #1

The United States military has continued to throw billions of dollar down the waste toiled known as the F-22 stealth fighter which has been plagued with issue after issue.

The problems have been so bad in fact the US was caught fudging their own report card on the plane so it would meet the minimum standards of any military airplane required for flight certification.

Now after billions have been thrown into a black hole to get the plane in the air, German pilots have announces after a join mock combat drill they have discovered an easy way to shoot down the plane.

For all of the hype and propaganda in repeated claims by nearly every military official quoted on the plane claiming the raptor is simply the best air-to-air fighter ever the truth be told – it is an inferior piece of garbage in air to air combat.

In fact, the Germans say all you need to do to defeat the plane is get close to it and stay there and the F-22 raptor is pretty much a sitting duck.

In typical Washington damage control mode, while they can not longer claim it is the best air-to-air right ever, the Pentagon is sticking by claims that F-22 maintains air superiority at distances beyond visible range (apparently due to its stealth capability) and claim they plan on using the Raptor to conduct combat at such ranges.

Except expert reports even refute that claim as Wired reports below, the Air Force-funded think tank RAND has warned the Pentagon against assuming that such long range missile will work.

In fact, the RAND report long range missiles fired from such ranges have historically been 90-percent less effective than predicted, for reasons that obvious once you think about it – firing missiles at such long ranges gives more time for evasion techniques to work.

Wired reports:

How to Defeat the Air Force’s Powerful Stealth Fighter

A contingent of German pilots flying the latest Typhoon fighter have figured out how to shoot down the Lockheed Martin-made F-22 in mock combat. The Germans’ tactics, revealed in the latest Combat Aircraft magazine, represent the latest reality check for the $400-million-a-copy F-22 following dozens of pilot blackouts, and possibly a crash, reportedly related to problems with the unique g-force-defying vests worn by Raptor pilots.

The fast, stealthy F-22 Raptor is “unquestionably” the best air-to-air fighter in the arsenal of the world’s leading air force. That’s what outgoing Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz wrote in 2009.

Three years later, a contingent of German pilots flying their latest Typhoon fighter have figured out how to shoot down the Lockheed Martin-made F-22 in mock combat. The Germans’ tactics, revealed in the latest Combat Aircraft magazine, represent the latest reality check for the $400-million-a-copy F-22, following dozens of pilot blackouts, and possibly a crash, reportedly related to problems with the unique g-force-defying vests worn by Raptor pilots.

In mid-June, 150 German airmen and eight twin-engine, non-stealthy Typhoons arrived at Eielson Air Force Base in Alaska for an American-led Red Flag exercise involving more than 100 aircraft from Germany, the U.S. Air Force and Army, NATO, Japan, Australia and Poland. Eight times during the two-week war game, individual German Typhoons flew against single F-22s in basic fighter maneuvers meant to simulate a close-range dogfight.

The results were a surprise to the Germans and presumably the Americans, too. “We were evenly matched,” Maj. Marc Gruene told Combat Aircraft’s Jamie Hunter. The key, Gruene said, is to get as close as possible to the F-22 … and stay there. “They didn’t expect us to turn so aggressively.”

Gruene said the Raptor excels at fighting from beyond visual range with its high speed and altitude, sophisticated radar and long-range AMRAAM missiles. But in a slower, close-range tangle — which pilots call a “merge” — the bigger and heavier F-22 is at a disadvantage. “As soon as you get to the merge … the Typhoon doesn’t necessarily have to fear the F-22,” Gruene said.

[...]

This is not supposed to be the sort of reaction the F-22 inspires. For years the Air Force has billed the Raptor as an unparalleled aerial combatant. Even former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who in 2009 famously cut F-22 production to just 187 copies, called the stealth jet “far and away the best air-to-air fighter ever produced” and predicted “it will ensure U.S. command of the skies for the next generation.” And it’s slowly getting taken off the probation it incurred after seemingly suffocating pilots.

Admittedly, advanced air forces plan to do most of their fighting at long range and avoid the risky, close-in tangle — something Gruene acknowledged in his comments to Combat Aircraft. But there’s evidence that, in reality, most air combat occurs at close distance, despite air arms’ wishful thinking. That could bode poorly for the F-22′s chances in a future conflict.

In a 2008 study (big file!), the Air Force-funded think tank RAND warned against assuming long-range missiles will work. RAND looked at 588 air-to-air shoot-downs since the 1950s and counted just 24 that occurred with the attacker firing from beyond visual range. Historically, American long-range air-to-air missiles have been 90-percent less effective than predicted, RAND asserted.........

Source:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/f-22-germans/

Post: #2

But the euro fighter wont be fighting against the f22.
It will be fighting against russian/chinese/northkorean/iranian/syrian etc fighters.

duh.

Post: #3

But being british i dont really mind that the americans wasted so much money on the f22.

ive seen f22 at an airshow though, and its the most manuverable fighter.

Post: #4

The Typhoons a great aircraft designed for dogfights, I'm not that surprised.

Post: #5

"all you need to do to defeat the plane is get close to it and stay there"



This article is less credible than the Pakistan water car

Post: #6

LoP Guest  Wrote:

It will be fighting against russian/chinese/northkorean/iranian/syrian etc fighters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f894zeQM7z0

Post: #7

LoP Guest  Wrote:

But the euro fighter wont be fighting against the f22.
It will be fighting against russian/chinese/northkorean/iranian/syrian etc fighters.

duh.

russians invented the thrust vectoring that makes the f-22 so manuverable. Where actually catching up. And theres can take-off in a grass field. And u know the tax payer had to get riped-off.F117 Stealths already been shot down in kosovo before so hmmm. and i doubt kosovo had the latest greatest for air-defence

Post: #8

LoP Guest  Wrote:

"all you need to do to defeat the plane is get close to it and stay there"



This article is less credible than the Pakistan water car

i get it. they pointed out a weak spot. a smaller cheaper plane can out turn 1 of the most hyped exspensive planes of all time. well thats bad news for the raptor because theres a world full of smaller cheaper planes that can outturn the raptor. better hope no 1 is as well defened as kosovo

Post: #9

Post: #10

Nothing can defeat my penguin missiles...

okay except flying polar bears...