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**Psychonaut** lop guest User ID: 102433 06-18-2012 06:07 AM

King_David Wrote:

Psychonaut Wrote:
Old Whatshisname Wrote:
I guess it depends on how you define "self-respect". It seems that you describe it as borrowing money from someone who trusts you and then betraying the trust by not paying it back.

Trust had nothing to do with the debts that Greece "owes".

The banksters knew all along that repayment couldn't ever be managed in any traditional manner.

Just like they knew in advance that all those ARMs would go into default.

In addition, you also must realize that the US will be forced at some point to declare a force majeure on it's impossible to repay debts too...right?

Trust has NOTHING to do with banking at the international level.

No shite, how much consent is necessary to bankrupt a Nation?

I've been saying stop the spending and balance the budget sense 1992, but they've just been running up US Debt anyway. I don't own that debt, I never voted for it, I never signed for it, I never voted for anyone who ever signed for it, AND I'M NOT PAYING IT.

But we all are to varying degrees...inflation is the most insidious hidden tax imaginable....

But yes, noncompliance will bring change eventually.

Many people in this country and others heavily depend on younger generations to "pay their government bills" at any cost, so that they themselves may remain warm and comfortable.

**Fester**

Old Whatshisname Wrote:

SoSayWeAll Wrote:
I'd rather self destruct... wouldn't anyone with some self respect?

I guess it depends on how you define "self-respect". It seems that you describe it as borrowing money from someone who trusts you and then betraying the trust by not paying it back.

How much of that debt was from the common people of Greece?

Will you feel the same about being forced into austerity when your government can't pay the usury-level interest on debts it incurred in your name?

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 98720 06-18-2012 06:15 AM

Fester Wrote:

Old Whatshisname Wrote:
SoSayWeAll Wrote:
I'd rather self destruct... wouldn't anyone with some self respect?

I guess it depends on how you define "self-respect". It seems that you describe it as borrowing money from someone who trusts you and then betraying the trust by not paying it back.

How much of that debt was from the common people of Greece?

Will you feel the same about being forced into austerity when your government can't pay the usury-level interest on debts it incurred in your name?

"common people" have a hand in most social programs as well, not all

...but most

there's enough blame to pass around, but it's not like the citizens of country X don't have a part in any of this

**Fester**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Fester Wrote:
Old Whatshisname Wrote:
I guess it depends on how you define "self-respect". It seems that you describe it as borrowing money from someone who trusts you and then betraying the trust by not paying it back.

How much of that debt was from the common people of Greece?

Will you feel the same about being forced into austerity when your government can't pay the usury-level interest on debts it incurred in your name?

"common people" have a hand in most social programs as well, not all

...but most

there's enough blame to pass around, but it's not like the citizens of country X don't have a part in any of this

Wakey wakey

"On the day the 2001 deal was struck, the government owed the bank about 600 million euros ($793 million) more than the 2.8 billion euros it borrowed, said Spyros Papanicolaou, who took over the country’s debt-management agency in 2005. By then, the price of the transaction, a derivative that disguised the loan and that Goldman Sachs persuaded Greece not to test with competitors, had almost doubled to 5.1 billion euros, he said."

BLOOMBERG
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-06...avels.html

**Fester** · (This post was last modified: 06-18-2012 09:57 AM by Fester.)

"The bankrupt Greek state was recently forced, by the trioka, to borrow 4.2bn Euros from the EFSF so as immediately to pass it on to the European Central Bank so as to redeem Greek government bonds that the ECB had previously purchased in a failed attempt to shore up their price. This new loan boosted Greece's debt substantially but netted the ECB a profit of around 840 million euros, courtesy of the 20% discount at which the ECB had purchased these bonds."

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu

"The troika is a slang term for the three organizations which have the most power over Greece's financial future - or at least that future as it is defined within the European Union. The three groups are the European Commission (EC), the International Monetary Fund (IMF), and the European Central Bank (ECB)."
http://gogreece.about.com/od/Glossary-of...Troika.htm

**diggerbanks**

LoP Guest Wrote:

diggerbanks Wrote:
Foodnipple Wrote:
And they will continue in their pitiful struggle, nothing will change.

It'll have to change eventually, won't it?

What I want to know is what would happen to all the euros that are in Greece if they defaulted back to the drachma? Think of it as Nebraska claiming independence, issuing their own currency, and then what happens to the dollars in Nebraska? Am I being stupid or could that be a major issue?

All the euro coins are country specific, they will have to be changed. It would be illegal to take paper notes out of the country. All the notes will be "changed", most likely stamped, until there is a new paper currency printed, and dealing with unstamped euros illegal, or at least it would not be considered a valid currency.

Thanks

Do you think it is a relatively straightforward process?

A Greek euro is legal tender in Germany or any other Euro country so there will have been a lot of intermingling and no doubt the savvy Greeks have been swapping their Greek euros for German, Austrian, or Swiss euros