All forms of centralized government lead to increased centralization eventually, no matter the label. Right up to the point where they consume themselves. Then after the chaos of implosion/revolution everybody makes promises to each other that they will forever be vigilant and never allow past transgressions to ever happen again....and within one human generation some group gets the bright idea to try something (new ) that has been tried and failed countless times over the eons in one form of or another- thinking "this time will be different".....


It's all part of the cycle within the helices of time/space and the grand cosmic joke.

If we didn't need to worry about BASIC Housing, Food, and Healthcare, we'd be MUCH more free to improve our lot in life: buy and build better houses, start businesses, and pursue all the Blessings of Liberty.

The way I see it, we're doing things upside-down right now. The Constitution says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

We SHOULD be ensuring our People are fed, housed, and healthy, and that our Infrastructure is sound, and improving FIRST... After that, we can go to the Toy Store and the Bar.

As it is right now, we're going to the Toy Store first for all the latest GI Joe stuff, then to the Bar, where we buy all our Foreign Friends drinks, and give away the Toys we've purchased... and then with our national paycheck all but spent, we throw a few token bucks to Infrastructure and the General Welfare, thus reducing Domestic Tranquility.

This is not "Socialism"-- it is Basic, Constitutional Priorities.

Take a look at the debate regarding the US Exploring Expedition. Thomas Jefferson wanted to build six Navy ships, the rest of our early leaders would not allow it, deploring the idea of a Standing Army and Navy. My, how that has changed.

If we didn't need to worry about BASIC Housing, Food, and Healthcare, we'd be MUCH more free to improve our lot in life: buy and build better houses, start businesses, and pursue all the Blessings of Liberty.

Quote:'Tis the final conflict
Let each stand in his place
The International Union
Shall be the human race.

We want no condescending saviors
To rule us from their judgement hall
We workers ask not for their favors
Let us consult for all.
To make the theif disgorge his booty
To free the spirit from its cell
We must ourselves decide our duty
We must decide and do it well.

The law oppresses us and tricks us,
The wage slave system drains our blood;
The rich are free from obligation,
The laws the poor delude.
Too long we've languished in subjection,
Equality has other laws;
"No rights", says she "without their duties,
No claims on equals without cause."

Behold them seated in their glory
The kings of mine and rail and soil!
What have you read in all their story,
But how they plundered toil?
Fruits of the workers' toil are buried
In strongholds of the idle few
In working for their restitution
The men will only claim their due.

We toilers from all fields united
Join hand in hand with all who work;
The earth belongs to us, the workers,
No room here for the shirk.
How many on our flesh have fattened!
But if the norsome birds of prey
Shall vanish from the sky some morning
The blessed sunlight then will stay.

Monkeyfister  Wrote:

The way I see it, we're doing things upside-down right now. The Constitution says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

We SHOULD be ensuring our People are fed, housed, and healthy, and that our Infrastructure is sound, and improving FIRST... After that, we can go to the Toy Store and the Bar.

As it is right now, we're going to the Toy Store first for all the latest GI Joe stuff, then to the Bar, where we buy all our Foreign Friends drinks, and give away the Toys we've purchased... and then with our national paycheck all but spent, we throw a few token bucks to Infrastructure and the General Welfare, thus reducing Domestic Tranquility.

This is not "Socialism"-- it is Basic, Constitutional Priorities.

Take a look at the debate regarding the US Exploring Expedition. Thomas Jefferson wanted to build six Navy ships, the rest of our early leaders would not allow it, deploring the idea of a Standing Army and Navy. My, how that has changed.

If we didn't need to worry about BASIC Housing, Food, and Healthcare, we'd be MUCH more free to improve our lot in life: buy and build better houses, start businesses, and pursue all the Blessings of Liberty.

This person gets it..

I wonder how many people who are against TRUE socialism have actually ever heard the Internationale and payed attention to the words??

Here are all the various versions of it..

Does this sound like a tyrannical force to you?

http://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/sou...tional.htm

Quote:'Tis the final conflict
Let each stand in his place
The International Union
Shall be the human race.

We want no condescending saviors
To rule us from their judgement hall
We workers ask not for their favors
Let us consult for all.
To make the theif disgorge his booty
To free the spirit from its cell
We must ourselves decide our duty
We must decide and do it well.

The law oppresses us and tricks us,
The wage slave system drains our blood;
The rich are free from obligation,
The laws the poor delude.
Too long we've languished in subjection,
Equality has other laws;
"No rights", says she "without their duties,
No claims on equals without cause."

Behold them seated in their glory
The kings of mine and rail and soil!
What have you read in all their story,
But how they plundered toil?
Fruits of the workers' toil are buried
In strongholds of the idle few
In working for their restitution
The men will only claim their due.

We toilers from all fields united
Join hand in hand with all who work;
The earth belongs to us, the workers,
No room here for the shirk.
How many on our flesh have fattened!
But if the norsome birds of prey
Shall vanish from the sky some morning
The blessed sunlight then will stay.

Psychonaut  Wrote:

All forms of centralized government lead to increased centralization eventually, no matter the label. Right up to the point where they consume themselves. Then after the chaos of implosion/revolution everybody makes promises to each other that they will forever be vigilant and never allow past transgressions to ever happen again....and within one human generation some group gets the bright idea to try something (new ) that has been tried and failed countless times over the eons in one form of or another- thinking "this time will be different".....


It's all part of the cycle within the helices of time/space and the grand cosmic joke.

What is the best way to organize groups of people and apply rule sets? Should a new organizational structure be developed or should something be used that has already been established?

I don't recall this ever being a conversational topic before, but I've been experiencing it lately as if real life people think this is somehow now a viable option under the Obama Administration.

The ones in favor of it have been, across the board, underachievers for whatever reasons, be it chronic substance abuse problems that are detrimental to their lives to the point of holding down a job, students having a hard look at their debt and sad future prospects, and people already completely reliant on the govt for everything (and for them I see this as odd because they're already living a pretty much socialist existence for the duration of their lives and seemingly cannot grasp that SOMEBODY pays their way).

None of them seem to be able to grasp the negatives of Socialism!

"The black guy gets my vote as long as I keep getting free food". A Native American told me this just this week.

It's like these people are thinking like 'losers'. That there'll somehow magically be more for them at the expense of others if we have socialism.

I'm seeing no understanding in their minds, even when I explain it patiently, of why America became great in the first place, how independence is what breeds all of the greatest things about humanity - creativity, invention, ingenuity, progress, great art, great music, industry innovation, opportunity for anybody to achieve what they dare to dream for themselves, etc.

It's like they think Obama is Willy Wonka and has a golden ticket for them all. That under socialism they'll get more for doing less, and to them it's only about themselves and their own personal downfalls - they don't give a goddamn as to what's best for our nation as a whole.

Frankly I'm disgusted.

Anybody else noticing people discussing Socialism as an actual possibility?

The idea of universal human liberty seems to be most beneficial to the most people at any given time, but that takes vigilance and a dedicated willingness to engage in personal risk when needed to maintain it. Obviously, some generations just aren't up for it.

I might remind you comrade, only the Party leaders should be discussing Socialism.. workers are able to discuss some matters of policy at State approved meetings only

Thank you for your time.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Socialism is nothing but creating a social safety net in case you loose your job.

Under a socialist gov. you pay a bit extra tax during your working life.
So if you become jobless you can say "hey gov. i payed for it, now you have to guarantee me an income"

Under a non-socialist gov. you can choose to have an insurence against becoming jobless.
So you can say "hey insurance company i have paid premium during my working life, now i have a right for a stable income"

Tell me the difference.

Sosialism/comformismn is doomed to failure like me will always run out of alko on Sunday´s

Like stockmarkets struggle because they have become focused on gamblin, not investing in creative development.

Ofcourse internetz/computers/daytradein/derevatives not help either.
The juggling with bonus awards not either, I´m seriously hangovered so wont rant more, can´t even remember my code for ATM cards so local pub no option either.

I´m a mini stockmarked, cornered myself
Fam not around either, mew without hope he he.

This is no fun, I´m gonna get a panicattack for sure, still some alko left in body, but not for long.

We're already seeing a fast-paced growing mediocrity on many levels.

Students who don't want to be in school or learn. People who don't want to be literate or employed. A nation whose collective reading has woefully declined en masse. Losses in math and sciences and tech. Anti-intellectualism. Approval for anti-social behaviors. Immorality replacing basic human virtues like honesty, compassion, politeness.