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**mstra** lop guest User ID: 93508 04-29-2012 06:36 PM

What is needed is a way to store electricity AS electricity, not as chemical potential. All of our present electrical storage devices (it's a very long list, here it is: chemical batteries) store very little potential and are very, very bulky, heavy, and made of toxic metals and acids.

Capacitors can store a tiny amount of charge as electrical potential, but are even bulkier than batteries.

Solve the problem of storing a quantity of electricity as electricity, change the world.

**Luvapottamus**

The EV-1 from GM was very loved by the people who tested them.

I don't know about the new one, but it probably sucks.

**Luvapottamus**

mstra Wrote:

What is needed is a way to store electricity AS electricity, not as chemical potential. All of our present electrical storage devices (it's a very long list, here it is: chemical batteries) store very little potential and are very, very bulky, heavy, and made of toxic metals and acids.

Capacitors can store a tiny amount of charge as electrical potential, but are even bulkier than batteries.

Solve the problem of storing a quantity of electricity as electricity, change the world.

It's been solved.

Not for cars though.

It's been solved for the grid.

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Donald-S...-Batteries

**AVA**

Things may change soon that will take EV's to their proper potential...

http://www.top5investments.com

...so far this has been suppressed, but non-profit endeavors like Top 5 Investments is breaking the silence and doing something about it.

**mstra** lop guest User ID: 93508 04-29-2012 06:47 PM

AMPAMPERSAND Wrote:

Agonist Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:
http://www.teslamotors.com/

Using existing technology why can't you put some alternators or other generators into one of these to greatly improve the distance a charge will take you if not eliminate plugging in all together?

Not possible.

Most cars in America drive 20 -30 miles to work, sit for 8 hours then drive 20 -30 miles home, solar panels cannot recharge those batteries in 8 hours? about 70% of the top surface area of a parked car could hold or be made of solar panels, could it not? what is not possible? Maybe the oil companies don't want it to be possible?

This is the ignorance that the government counts on. You obviously have never studied even basic physics. If you wish to be taken seriously, learn something, starting with what a watt hour is. Then figure out how many watts the sun puts out per square meter, and how far that many watts, over say 8 hours, will push a 1500 lb vehicle. After 8 hours, if the whole roof was an efficient solar panel? Might make it around the block, if it was flat land.

**mstra** lop guest User ID: 93508 04-29-2012 06:51 PM

Luvapottamus Wrote:

mstra Wrote:
What is needed is a way to store electricity AS electricity, not as chemical potential. All of our present electrical storage devices (it's a very long list, here it is: chemical batteries) store very little potential and are very, very bulky, heavy, and made of toxic metals and acids.

Capacitors can store a tiny amount of charge as electrical potential, but are even bulkier than batteries.

Solve the problem of storing a quantity of electricity as electricity, change the world.

It's been solved.

Not for cars though.

It's been solved for the grid.

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Donald-S...-Batteries

No, it hasn't, and I went to your link. Here is what I wrote above: Solve the problem of storing a quantity of electricity as electricity, change the world.

Batteries do NOT store electricity as electricity, they store it as chemical potential, like vinegar and baking soda, and they are huge, heavy, and full of toxic components.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 93512 04-29-2012 06:51 PM

Agonist Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
Agonist Wrote:
Not possible.

Why not?

Because we don't have a way to output more energy than we input, thus you cannot eliminate plugging it in at all or otherwise continuously replenishing a fuel source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_brake

One on each tire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerati...k_absorber

Replace your 4 shock absorbers with one of these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator

One on each tire and one attached directly to the engine.

Add in solar collectors across the top of the car and possibly a pair of small wind turbines on the inside of the hood (generates electricity while moving as well as cooling your components) and do a bit of tweaking to maximize your charge capacity and you could probably eliminate the need to plug in your car.

**Luvapottamus**

mstra Wrote:

Luvapottamus Wrote:
mstra Wrote:
What is needed is a way to store electricity AS electricity, not as chemical potential. All of our present electrical storage devices (it's a very long list, here it is: chemical batteries) store very little potential and are very, very bulky, heavy, and made of toxic metals and acids.

Capacitors can store a tiny amount of charge as electrical potential, but are even bulkier than batteries.

Solve the problem of storing a quantity of electricity as electricity, change the world.

It's been solved.

Not for cars though.

It's been solved for the grid.

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Donald-S...-Batteries

No, it hasn't, and I went to your link. Here is what I wrote above: Solve the problem of storing a quantity of electricity as electricity, change the world.

Batteries do NOT store electricity as electricity, they store it as chemical potential, like vinegar and baking soda, and they are huge, heavy, and full of toxic components.

Well now you're just being goofy.

You don't need to store electricity as electricity for the grid.

Regarding electric vehicles and solar panels,

those work pretty well now when the panels are on the roof of your garage.

Using conventional lead acid batteries, and a fiberglass porsche 550 spyder kit car, a dude in Mendocino county California came up with a satisfactory electric vehicle.

He only builds a few a year.

The EV-1 worked fine for most commuters.

**Luvapottamus**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Agonist Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:
Why not?

Because we don't have a way to output more energy than we input, thus you cannot eliminate plugging it in at all or otherwise continuously replenishing a fuel source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_brake

One on each tire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerati...k_absorber

Replace your 4 shock absorbers with one of these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator

One on each tire and one attached directly to the engine.

Add in solar collectors across the top of the car and possibly a pair of small wind turbines on the inside of the hood (generates electricity while moving as well as cooling your components) and do a bit of tweaking to maximize your charge capacity and you could probably eliminate the need to plug in your car.

Alternators produce DRAG.

And they aren't 100% efficient.

This is like using your wind generator to power a blower to blow air on your windmill.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 14880 04-29-2012 07:00 PM

Batteries suck. And petrol engines.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 84193 04-29-2012 07:10 PM

This article is absolute bullshit written by someone who has an ax to grind against EV's. Good lord people, can you not see through bias?

BTW... For those of you that think the Volt is an over hyped golf cart, I challenge you to go down and test drive one, and come back with the same opinion.

All the arguments about storing power are bullshit debunked long ago, I don't feel the need to re hash the subject. So if you think electricity will never work for cars, that is fine. Just keep your ignorance to yourself.

**Luvapottamus**

LoP Guest Wrote:

This article is absolute bullshit written by someone who has an ax to grind against EV's. Good lord people, can you not see through bias?

BTW... For those of you that think the Volt is an over hyped golf cart, I challenge you to go down and test drive one, and come back with the same opinion.

All the arguments about storing power are bullshit debunked long ago, I don't feel the need to re hash the subject. So if you think electricity will never work for cars, that is fine. Just keep your ignorance to yourself.

It's a hybrid?

I just looked for local dealers.

f*ck that noise.

I've worked on priuses, they suck.

Full electric or f*ck off.

chuckle

**Mike** lop guest User ID: 88229 04-29-2012 07:22 PM

LoP Guest Wrote:

Agonist Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:
Why not?

Because we don't have a way to output more energy than we input, thus you cannot eliminate plugging it in at all or otherwise continuously replenishing a fuel source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_brake

One on each tire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerati...k_absorber

Replace your 4 shock absorbers with one of these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator

One on each tire and one attached directly to the engine.

Add in solar collectors across the top of the car and possibly a pair of small wind turbines on the inside of the hood (generates electricity while moving as well as cooling your components) and do a bit of tweaking to maximize your charge capacity and you could probably eliminate the need to plug in your car.

The only thing that might allow you to never plug in would be the solar panels. Wind turbines create drag as well while moving and would introduce minimal power output and your solar panels would be unable to compensate fully for the power used to drive the vehicle. Eventually you would come to a halt regardless of what you do to the vehicle. So in your case, you might be able to replace plugging in your car with parking it and allowing the sun to recharge your car if the conditions are correct.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 65684 04-29-2012 07:30 PM

LoP Guest Wrote:

25 people have invented water powered cars. Start f*cking using them already and end this stupid greed shit. We still need oil for plastic. We dont' f*cking need it to power our transportation.

Well we would, unfortunately the really promising ones died before we could tap their brilliance....most unusual ?

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 93512 04-29-2012 08:18 PM

Agonist Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
Agonist Wrote:
Because we don't have a way to output more energy than we input, thus you cannot eliminate plugging it in at all or otherwise continuously replenishing a fuel source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_brake

One on each tire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerati...k_absorber

Replace your 4 shock absorbers with one of these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator

One on each tire and one attached directly to the engine.

Add in solar collectors across the top of the car and possibly a pair of small wind turbines on the inside of the hood (generates electricity while moving as well as cooling your components) and do a bit of tweaking to maximize your charge capacity and you could probably eliminate the need to plug in your car.

The only thing that might allow you to never plug in would be the solar panels. Wind turbines create drag as well while moving and would introduce minimal power output and your solar panels would be unable to compensate fully for the power used to drive the vehicle. Eventually you would come to a halt regardless of what you do to the vehicle. So in your case, you might be able to replace plugging in your car with parking it and allowing the sun to recharge your car if the conditions are correct.

So you lose 5-10 mph off the top end speed and slow down your 0-60 speed rating by a second or two. You extend the range of the car by charging the battery continually while driving with the potential of not having to plug in after your done with your driving. If I had the money for the parts I'd put one together. I don't so I'm throwing the ideas to the winds to see if someone does.