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ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
GREY LENSMAN staff
Blue Crystal Storm
User ID: 181274
08-06-2013 03:47 PM

Posts: 13,505



Post: #46
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
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MMM

INTERESTING POUNDED WITH CHARGED PATRICLES, LESS THAN ONE PER CUBIC METRE.

SOME POUNDING

S977

GL

The full force of Natural and Common Law shall be applicable at all times in all places and cannot be annulled by the declaration of emergency, war or other device by any State or entity.


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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 153181
08-06-2013 03:55 PM

 



Post: #47
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
-Vod-  Wrote: (08-06-2013 03:21 PM)
Ok, but you'll see in 5 months, nothing special will happen.

5 months? Who told you that?

It takes around four months to send a probe to Mars right now. So I think you've got some data mixed up in your head.

It starts in three weeks, earth is much closer to the sun than Mars is.

In five months it reaches Mars and hits it, Earth is next month, I don't think you appreciate the scale and size of the solar system or its mechanics. I certainly hope you've made some prep otherwise.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 153181
08-06-2013 03:56 PM

 



Post: #48
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
GREY LENSMAN  Wrote: (08-06-2013 03:47 PM)
MMM

INTERESTING POUNDED WITH CHARGED PATRICLES, LESS THAN ONE PER CUBIC METRE.

SOME POUNDING

S977

GL

Those charged particles contain around 3 THz of electrical energy. One touches you, you won't be around long, maybe fractions of a second. You won't even feel it, it'll be that fast.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 183335
08-06-2013 04:06 PM

 



Post: #49
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
indigowiz  Wrote: (08-06-2013 02:18 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (08-06-2013 01:40 PM)
Then the dates of the eclipses, new moon cycles and transits of venus etc would be a year out also, because in the codices they are listed in the Long Count format. Think about the transit of venus last year, that won't happen again until 2117 AD.
Also, the decendents of the Maya living today in Guatemala use the GMT correlation, don't you think they would notice?

The eclipses, new moon cycles and transits of Venus etc counted out some Mayan unit(s) of time but the Mayan Calendar ended on the Solstice 21st December 2012. There was no instruction manual on how to determine the final date it was arrived at by a consensus of Mayan scholars not a unanimous one I might add.

Did they start the December Solstice count at 1 or 0, was the interpretation the count ends on the first Summer Solstice after the X,Y or Z number of eclipses, new moon cycles and transits of Venus etc when the 2012 Summer Solstice was the zero and the next one in December 2013 was the first!

That's the limit to my knowledge of the Mayan calendar I am only theorizing I have no data like ISON I can measure.

I will gladly concede defeat to your superior knowledge of the Mayan calendar. Hiding

No need to do that, I just wandered why you were pointing a finger at the scholars, then trying to deny it.
Yes there are adjustments to the GMT correlation, GMT +2 and GMT +3, so far GMT +2 is the best fit I believe, and we're only talking an adjustment of plus two or three days.
Those correlations came after matching different things, from carbon dated wooden carvings in temples, matching those to Spanish accounts dated in the Julian calendar, and then to the Gregorian calendar, and then checking correlations to the venus tables etc in the codices. Using your logic, last year's venus transit should have happened this year. it didn't.
If you think the Maya were wrong in their calculations for the birth of the new sun, that is fair enough, maybe they were. If it flips now, they weren't even a year out. If it had flipped fully (iirc the south pole did flip last year - ?) last year around december they would have nailed it, but this is a double peaked cycle anyway and even NASA got their forecast wrong.
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-Vod-
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User ID: 56113
08-06-2013 04:09 PM

Posts: 891



Post: #50
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (08-06-2013 03:55 PM)
-Vod-  Wrote: (08-06-2013 03:21 PM)
Ok, but you'll see in 5 months, nothing special will happen.

5 months? Who told you that?

It takes around four months to send a probe to Mars right now. So I think you've got some data mixed up in your head.

It starts in three weeks, earth is much closer to the sun than Mars is.

In five months it reaches Mars and hits it, Earth is next month, I don't think you appreciate the scale and size of the solar system or its mechanics. I certainly hope you've made some prep otherwise.

I meant 4 month (december) when it will be visible.
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Bicnarok
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User ID: 183339
08-06-2013 04:10 PM

Posts: 4,009



Post: #51
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
It´s ELENIN revisited..S977


Comet ISON will be nice to see, especially interesting if it dives into the sun. Other than that....

...Doom off.

chuckle

[Image: 1Wlteoi.gif?1]
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Jeffro
Zamboni Driver
User ID: 170735
08-06-2013 04:10 PM

Posts: 5,345



Post: #52
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
Popcorn
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2013 04:11 PM by Jeffro.) Quote this message in a reply
Solar Warrior
Registered User
User ID: 183331
08-06-2013 04:18 PM

Posts: 3,712



Post: #53
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
Bicnarok  Wrote: (08-06-2013 04:10 PM)
It´s ELENIN revisited..S977


Comet ISON will be nice to see, especially interesting if it dives into the sun. Other than that....

...Doom off.

chuckle

LOP's skeptics will regret acting cocky by August 19 2013....chucklechuckleLmaoLmao
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 153181
08-06-2013 04:31 PM

 



Post: #54
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
-Vod-  Wrote: (08-06-2013 04:09 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (08-06-2013 03:55 PM)
5 months? Who told you that?

It takes around four months to send a probe to Mars right now. So I think you've got some data mixed up in your head.

It starts in three weeks, earth is much closer to the sun than Mars is.

In five months it reaches Mars and hits it, Earth is next month, I don't think you appreciate the scale and size of the solar system or its mechanics. I certainly hope you've made some prep otherwise.

I meant 4 month (december) when it will be visible.

No you'll be able to see it with the naked eye in three weeks. Just like you could see it pass around the sun on the arrival.

It'll be here in around 49-50 days. Download Stelarium and put the NASA data into it and you'll see yourself. In four/five months it hits Mars. In 50ish days it earth gets in the direct path of it's enormus tail of meteors that are pretty big and all that energy it's charged up with from sliding by the giant nuclear furance and electrical storm that has been running non-stop for 4.5 billion years.

Besides it doesn't matter, nuclear war starts tomorrow, as I said. The Majority of you will never see it. Russians have made it clear that this war is going to be ICBM based and there isn't anything to be done about it.
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Spark
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User ID: 172121
08-06-2013 05:10 PM

Posts: 1,989



Post: #55
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
indigowiz  Wrote: (08-06-2013 04:32 AM)
NASA is outright lying about the size of ISON

In a July 17 article on space.com titled "Comet ISON: A Timeline of This Year's Sungrazing Spectacle" a Hubble propaganda photograph from NASA dated 8 May 2013, was slipped in this time with a faux scale.

Here is the article where the photograph appeared:

http://www.space.com/22002-comet-ison-ti...flyby.html

Here's the photo with my annotations (Fig 1):

[Image: 52005cc349788.jpg]


They are obviously keeping an eye on the conspiracy sites and manipulating the information to head off any debate about the true size of this comet.

After my last thread where I used NASA's own article about the Spitzer images to show how a reported comet tail of 300,000 km would put the coma at 50,000 km the above article came out.

Again a photograph with a blue filter is used with a faux scale to dramatically reduce the apparent size of it appears. The blue filter will also fade out any cold debris travelling with it.

When this latest photograph appeared the scale had reduced the apparent size of ISON by a factor of 85% so I decided to investigate it to see how they did it.

My first instinct was it wasn't even a photograph of ISON I fired up Stellarium and dialled it back to the 8th May 2013 and zoomed into ISON. The back ground stars show it is ISON, so I decided to check the scale.

Stellarium reported the two stars Azimuth and Altitude as:
Object --------------------------------------Deg-Min-Secs-Decimal Degrees
Star - Magnitude 9.80 (B-V: 0.41) AZIMUTH---45--49--54---45.832
Star - Magnitude 9.80 (B-V: 0.41) ALTITUDE---15---9---2---15.151
Star - Magnitude 9.80 (B-V: 1.04) AZIMUTH---45--53---4---45.884
Star - Magnitude 9.80 (B-V: 1.04) ALTITUDE---14--58--49---14.980

Here is a diagram explaining the concept of Azimuth and Altitude:

[Image: 52005d128f565.png]


Stellarium reported that on 8th May 2013 ISON's distance from Earth was 4.33729697 AU.

I then drew it in 3D CAD with a scale of 1 metre to the AU for the 4.33730 AU radius of the sphere and measured to tiny little chord joining the two plotted stars.

[Image: 52005d645cd38.jpg]


Using this line as the scale line I in Fig 1 I plotted the size of ISON's spherical coma and tail distance from its centre.

The figures are twice what I got in my earlier Spitzer photograph!
ISON's spherical Coma plotted out at 107,350 km That's slightly smaller than Saturn at 116,464 km!

ISONS Tail from centre of coma to faintest end plotted out at 1,610,300 km.

I used this method again on Stellarium as it simulates a photograph of the sky with the correct apparent magnitudes to cross check the calculated size of the Sun and Moon at three different dates to estimate error.

I got ranges for the Sun at 126% and 96% times the stated size for the Sun and 102% for the Moon so the method works with an estimated error margin of +0 -8%

But wait there's more jaw dropping news!

If it doesn't get any bigger at its closest approach to Earth on the 26th December 2013 at 0.428 AU distance it's coma will cover 8.9 degrees OR appear 17.8 times the diameter of the Sun or Moon whose angular size is .5 degree. It's tail will cover 98.8 degrees of the sky. At Midday on the day of Closest approach 28 December 2013 from London England in the Northern Hemisphere ISON will be 50 degrees above the northern horizon, the tail will stretch down to the horizon away from the Sun with approximately 50 degrees of it visible in the southern hemisphere rising up from the Northern Horizon! As the day rolls around ISON will appear to circle the North Celestial Pole its tail sweeping out away from the Sun like the minute hand of a clock across the sky as the hours tick by.

If these figures are correct it should be as bright as Jupiter is now when it first appears around the 10th of this month (August). Its close approach to Mars on the 1st October 2013 will be the key event to determining what happens next.

Why NASA is deliberately down playing its size is an ominous sign ISON is a game changer!

Great topic and an amazing presentation Indigowiz! I am fascinated by and am beginning to study Astronomy; no easy task, so, props to you for that... Applause
I've thought about ISON and I know Nasa and those guys know about NAMES; why Ison? Is it a name for I, Son of God, Coming in the Sky? Is this the Cosmic Faery Dusting that will 'raise' our consciousness and refine our cellular structure? I mean, the dust should hit us, right? "From dust, to dust...") I'm not overly concerned because I know there is a Divine Order to The Cosmos and we will be just fine, but this IS on exciting times and very interesting, to say the least! Thanks again... S137 Omgsign
From this, Gtfikfkl ...to this, Trippynana ? Scratchinghead Peace (I guess we'll seee!) 5

Our Spirit is Our Light and Our Life; The Body is just a Vehicle.
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2013 05:20 PM by Spark.) Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 183335
08-06-2013 05:56 PM

 



Post: #56
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (08-06-2013 04:31 PM)
No you'll be able to see it with the naked eye in three weeks. Just like you could see it pass around the sun on the arrival.

Nope, it isn't expected to be naked eye visible until November. You will probably need a telescope or binoculars to see it in September, but considering it isn't brightening as expected...
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Bicnarok
Registered User
User ID: 183339
08-06-2013 06:07 PM

Posts: 4,009



Post: #57
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
this is also interesting.




[Image: 1Wlteoi.gif?1]
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 183374
08-06-2013 07:31 PM

 



Post: #58
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
Bicnarok  Wrote: (08-06-2013 06:07 PM)
this is also interesting.




Bump
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 166818
08-06-2013 08:28 PM

 



Post: #59
ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
Yeah, they're definitely downplaying it. A couple weeks ago they said the tail was 300,000 km, now they're saying its only 92,000 km. The tail would get longer, as the comet gets closer to the sun, not shorter!
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indigowiz
Registered User
User ID: 136365
08-07-2013 01:55 AM

Posts: 2,851



Post: #60
devil ISONS spherical coma has expanded to the size of Saturn!
DanfromtheHills  Wrote: (08-06-2013 02:44 PM)
indigowiz  Wrote: (08-06-2013 04:32 AM)
NASA is outright lying about the size of ISON

In a July 17 article on space.com titled "Comet ISON: A Timeline of This Year's Sungrazing Spectacle" a Hubble propaganda photograph from NASA dated 8 May 2013, was slipped in this time with a faux scale.

Here is the article where the photograph appeared:

http://www.space.com/22002-comet-ison-ti...flyby.html

Here's the photo with my annotations (Fig 1):

[Image: 52005cc349788.jpg]


They are obviously keeping an eye on the conspiracy sites and manipulating the information to head off any debate about the true size of this comet.

After my last thread where I used NASA's own article about the Spitzer images to show how a reported comet tail of 300,000 km would put the coma at 50,000 km the above article came out.

Again a photograph with a blue filter is used with a faux scale to dramatically reduce the apparent size of it appears. The blue filter will also fade out any cold debris travelling with it.

When this latest photograph appeared the scale had reduced the apparent size of ISON by a factor of 85% so I decided to investigate it to see how they did it.

My first instinct was it wasn't even a photograph of ISON I fired up Stellarium and dialled it back to the 8th May 2013 and zoomed into ISON. The back ground stars show it is ISON, so I decided to check the scale.

Stellarium reported the two stars Azimuth and Altitude as:
Object --------------------------------------Deg-Min-Secs-Decimal Degrees
Star - Magnitude 9.80 (B-V: 0.41) AZIMUTH---45--49--54---45.832
Star - Magnitude 9.80 (B-V: 0.41) ALTITUDE---15---9---2---15.151
Star - Magnitude 9.80 (B-V: 1.04) AZIMUTH---45--53---4---45.884
Star - Magnitude 9.80 (B-V: 1.04) ALTITUDE---14--58--49---14.980

Here is a diagram explaining the concept of Azimuth and Altitude:

[Image: 52005d128f565.png]


Stellarium reported that on 8th May 2013 ISON's distance from Earth was 4.33729697 AU.

I then drew it in 3D CAD with a scale of 1 metre to the AU for the 4.33730 AU radius of the sphere and measured to tiny little chord joining the two plotted stars.

[Image: 52005d645cd38.jpg]


Using this line as the scale line I in Fig 1 I plotted the size of ISON's spherical coma and tail distance from its centre.

The figures are twice what I got in my earlier Spitzer photograph!
ISON's spherical Coma plotted out at 107,350 km That's slightly smaller than Saturn at 116,464 km!

ISONS Tail from centre of coma to faintest end plotted out at 1,610,300 km.

I used this method again on Stellarium as it simulates a photograph of the sky with the correct apparent magnitudes to cross check the calculated size of the Sun and Moon at three different dates to estimate error.

I got ranges for the Sun at 126% and 96% times the stated size for the Sun and 102% for the Moon so the method works with an estimated error margin of +0 -8%

But wait there's more jaw dropping news!

If it doesn't get any bigger at its closest approach to Earth on the 26th December 2013 at 0.428 AU distance it's coma will cover 8.9 degrees OR appear 17.8 times the diameter of the Sun or Moon whose angular size is .5 degree. It's tail will cover 98.8 degrees of the sky. At Midday on the day of Closest approach 28 December 2013 from London England in the Northern Hemisphere ISON will be 50 degrees above the northern horizon, the tail will stretch down to the horizon away from the Sun with approximately 50 degrees of it visible in the southern hemisphere rising up from the Northern Horizon! As the day rolls around ISON will appear to circle the North Celestial Pole its tail sweeping out away from the Sun like the minute hand of a clock across the sky as the hours tick by.

If these figures are correct it should be as bright as Jupiter is now when it first appears around the 10th of this month (August). Its close approach to Mars on the 1st October 2013 will be the key event to determining what happens next.

Why NASA is deliberately down playing its size is an ominous sign ISON is a game changer!

Where are your 3d rotational coordinates (L, Az, Al) for comet ISON? Did you use vector math when finding out the length of the green Chord in your original post? It is a 2d representation of a 3d line, and thus will be shorter than the actual physical length.

The method I used you will not find in any astronomy book, I invented it myself so you will have to think outside the square but inside the sphere.

We are talking about an analysis of a 2D photograph which you are right requires spherical geometry equations to solve.

I am only average at maths so I let the 3D CAD software do the calculations for me.

I only used ISON'S distance from the Earth (Observer) to create a 3D sphere on which I plotted the the azimuth and elevation of the two stars joined by the green line. The stars are light years away but just like a planetarium their position can be plotted on a sphere using their known azimuth and altitude their RA (Right Ascension) would be used to determine their position in time for a planetarium simulation which shows how the sky appears to move as the Earth revolves on ts axis. RA was not used.

The photograph then is a tiny square of the surface area of the sphere and because it is so tiny its curve is minute and ignored for the purpose of approximation.

The length of the line joining the two plotted stars in 3D CAD is a chord so it also is an approximation.

The purpose of the exercise is to prove or disapprove the scale line NASA provided in the subject Hubble photograph. The numbers I got show that the scale they provided was false.

I then just measured the Length of ISON'S tail and diameter onscreen with a scale ruler then the length of the green line then by a simple proportion calculation determined the length.

Obviously the tail length can't be a real length because it runs away from the observer and would be shortened in this oblique view, if we had a photograph at right angles to tails axis it would be more accurate.

I used this method to cross check the Sun and Moon diameters with two back ground stars and I quoted my estimated error margin. It gave good approximations. So it does work.

But it will all be academic soon when it appears to the naked eye.

As they say in motor bike racing:

"When the flag drops the bullshit stops!"

I am Alpha and Omega
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