LoP Guest  Wrote:

GUANO  Wrote:

The Dragon... Which is yet another Egregore lol...

other than in Revelation 13, where can this Dragon be found ??

It is the "Diverse Beast" spoken of by Daniel... Daniel 7. It has 10 horns also, but it gives it's horns (power) to the beast with seven heads... lol

LoP Guest  Wrote:

GUANO  Wrote:

One thing about a king is that he can ultimately be held responsible (in the mind, and thus bring closure).

in all places, in the mind, in the books, on the tongues....

Jesus Christ is subject to these conditions as would any 'king'

I understand that.

David  Wrote:

I find Jaynes' theory of kingship and god as arising from the bicameral mind fascinating.

Julian Jaynes


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Julian Jaynes (February 27, 1920 – November 21, 1997) was an American psychologist, best known for his book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (1976), in which he argued that ancient peoples were not conscious.

Jaynes defines "consciousness" more narrowly than most philosophers. Jaynes' definition of consciousness is synonymous with what philosophers call "meta-consciousness" or "meta-awareness" i.e. awareness of awareness, thoughts about thinking, desires about desires, beliefs about beliefs. This form of reflection is also distinct from the kinds of "deliberations" seen in other higher animals such as crows insofar as Jaynesian consciousness is dependent on linguistic cognition.

Jaynes wrote that ancient humans before roughly 1200 BC were not reflectively meta-conscious and operated by means of automatic, nonconscious habit-schemas. Instead of having meta-consciousness, these humans were constituted by what Jaynes calls the "bicameral mind". For bicameral humans, when habit did not suffice to handle novel stimuli and stress rose at the moment of decision, neural activity in the "dominant" (left) hemisphere was modulated by auditory verbal hallucinations originating in the so-called "silent" (right) hemisphere (particularly the right temporal cortex), which were heard as the voice of a chieftain or god and immediately obeyed.

Jaynes wrote, "[For bicameral humans], volition came as a voice that was in the nature of a neurological command, in which the command and the action were not separated, in which to hear was to obey."[1] Jaynes argued that the change from bicamerality to consciousness (linguistic meta-cognition) occurred over a period of centuries beginning around 1200 BC. The selection pressure for Jaynesian consciousness as a means for cognitive control is due, in part, to chaotic social disorganizations and the development of new methods of behavioral control such as writing.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Jaynes

In ancient times, Jaynes noted, gods were generally much more numerous and much more anthropomorphic than in modern times, and speculates that this was because each bicameral person had their own "god" who reflected their own desires and experiences.[3] He also noted that in ancient societies the corpses of the dead were often treated as though still alive (being seated, dressed and even fed) and argued that the dead bodies were presumed to be still living and the source of auditory hallucinations (see ancestor worship).[2] This adaptation to the village communities of 100 individuals or more formed the core of religion. Unlike today's hallucinations, the voices of ancient times were structured by cultural norms to produce a seamlessly functioning society. In Ancient Greek culture there is often mention of the Logos, which is a very similar concept. It was a type of guiding voice that was heard as from a seemingly external source.

Jaynes inferred that these "voices" came from the right brain counterparts of the left brain language centres—specifically, the counterparts to Wernicke's area and Broca's area. These regions are somewhat dormant in the right brains of most modern humans, but Jaynes noted that some studies show that auditory hallucinations correspond to increased activity in these areas of the brain.[2]

Even in modern times, Jaynes notes that there is no consensus as to the cause or origins of schizophrenia (the subject is still hotly debated). According to Jaynes, schizophrenia is simply a vestige of humanity's earlier state.[2] Recent evidence shows that many schizophrenics don't just hear random voices but experience "command hallucinations" instructing their behavior or urging them to commit certain acts. As support for Jaynes's argument, these command hallucinations are little different from the commands from gods which feature so prominently in ancient stories.[2] Indirect evidence supporting Jaynes's theory that hallucinations once played an important role in human mentality can be found in the recent book Muses, Madmen, and Prophets: Rethinking the History, Science, and Meaning of Auditory Hallucination by Daniel Smith.[4]

[edit] Breakdown of bicameralism

Jaynes theorized that a shift from bicameralism marked the beginning of introspection and consciousness as we know it today. According to Jaynes, this bicameral mentality began malfunctioning or "breaking down" during the second millennium BC. He speculates that primitive ancient societies tended to collapse periodically, (as in Egypt's Intermediate Periods and the periodically vanishing cities of the Mayas) as changes in the environment strained the socio-cultural equilibria sustained by this bicameral mindset. The mass migrations of the second millennium BC, caused by Mediterranean-wide earthquakes, created a rash of unexpected situations and stresses that required ancient minds to become more flexible and creative. Self-awareness, or consciousness, was the culturally evolved solution to this problem. This necessity of communicating commonly observed phenomena among individuals who shared no common language or cultural upbringing encouraged those communities to become self-aware to survive in a new environment. Thus consciousness, like bicamerality, emerged as a neurological adaptation to social complexity in a changing world.

Jaynes further argues that divination, prayer and oracles arose during this breakdown period, in an attempt to summon instructions from the "gods" whose voices could no longer be heard.[2] The consultation of special bicamerally operative individuals, or of casting lots and so forth, was a response to this loss, a transitional era depicted for example in the book of 1 Samuel. It was also evidenced in children who could communicate with the gods, but as their neurology was set by language and society they gradually lost that ability. Those who continued prophesying, being bicameral according to Jaynes, could be killed.[5][6] Leftovers of the bicameral mind today, according to Jaynes, include religion, hypnosis, possession, schizophrenia and the general sense of need for external authority in decision-making.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_...meral_Mind

This 'meta-consciousness' can be said to also be the 'deciding factor' as to what the ancients thought constituted a 'god'... (The ability to perceive right and wrong)...

What gave humans this 'meta-consciousness'... what is the 'apple'?

How is this different from Mary Kelsey's and Emile Burkheim's concept of the "collective conciousness"?

GUANO  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

other than in Revelation 13, where can this Dragon be found ??

It is the "Diverse Beast" spoken of by Daniel... Daniel 7. It has 10 horns also, but it gives it's horns (power) to the beast with seven heads... lol

huh ????

Revelation 13:2 clearly states that the Beast and the Dragon are two entirely different entities

and what is in the book of Daniel is about the Beast, and not the Dragon

so i ask again, other than in Revelations 13, where else can this Dragon be found ??

And did the apple just evolve -- or did someone give it to us?


Exactly.

I think something happened with the human race and our consciousness in the last 3500 years or so and that that is related to the rapid rise of civilizations around the earth -- beginning in teh "Fertile Crescent".

It is said that whenever a group of individuals unite for a common purpose or goal, an Egregore is created. Formed of the very thoughts and motivations of the group, the Egregore is the personification of the group as an individual, organic, heirarchal body. In its earlier stages of ‘life’, the Egregore is under strict supervision by its parent or parents and it is limited in the ways it can interact with the real world, it is typically confined to the purpose of providing for a common need: defense, justice, food, education, etc. But what happens when this entity becomes too independent to be controlled? Can it become more powerful than those who created it? What are the forces which motivate it? Are they predictable?

I will be launching a new blog which will be dedicated to studying of the nature and origins as well as how to protect yourself from the influence of these dangerous, semi-conscious entities...

Had some very interesting visions and thoughts about the Egregore as I was drifting off to sleep last night.

I'll see if I can gather them up here in a bit. It was quite trippy to say the least.

Our "culture" could be nothing more than an Egregore.
Our "beliefs" could be nothing more than an Egregore.
And the black magicians in control know and understand this, and will manipulate it to their end.
Hell, you could say movements such as OWS, groups such as Anon, political candidates such as Ron Paul, they could all simply be the external manifestations that are build upon an Egregore.
Life is a f*cking Egregore fractal.