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**HardTruth**

There Was No Fall

The reason humankind was created, according to the christian scriptures was in fact due to "There was no man to till the ground." (Gen 2:5)

After the so called fall, humans were run out of Eden to CONTINUE to TILL THE GROUND!! (Gen 3:23)

Where is the fall in that?

Further confirmation to this truth can be found in the statement of, "From the dust you were taken, to dust you return" or "from the Earth you were taken, to Earth you return." (Gen 3:19)

Once again, where is the fall in that?

We were created in the flesh as a slave race only to die in the flesh as a slave race!!

Once again christian scriptures state, "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man IS BECOME AS one of us".. (Gen 3:22)

We became AS god, that's ascension, a move upwards to become As god, not a fall!!

Once again, where is the fall?

___________

If it expects or demands worship, it is not divine!!

**seasnake** · (This post was last modified: 12-29-2011 08:23 PM by seasnake.)

My heritage isn't Middle Eastern. Middle Eastern countries seem to be too controlling, too abusive, too male oriented, too warring, and just too insane. There is simply no way that I would ever embrace any Middle Eastern religion. Hell, my ancestory is German/Italian, and as far as I know my relatives were the ones that tossed Christians into the arenas and nailed Jesus onto the stake.

**Ðґℙ☺ṧ⊥мαη**

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 14792 12-29-2011 08:51 PM

Skippy Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
Skippy Wrote:
So when the Bible says to hamstring their horses or kill the children, it's metaphor but when it says there were only 2 people who started the entire race of people on this planet and that bushes can talk, it's fact? Also, if God is all knowing and wanted man to worship Jesus, why did he send Jesus down late in the game and to only a really small portion of the world? You think he would have sent the guy down right from the start and made an announcement to the whole planet at once. Another question, if you were one of Adam and Eve's sons, did you have to sleep with your mom or sister to have more kids? Yuck.

Actually, the things stated in the first sentence are all fact. Once a person believes Genesis 1:1 and understands that God created every inch of the 13 billion light-year wide expanse of Universe, it's not that hard to believe the other things attributed to Him.

Why did God send Jesus when He did? Who knows. With unlimited wisdom and foresight, perhaps He had a good reason too.

As for Cain and Abel having wives (and I'll speak fundamentally here), perhaps God, in His foresight, was aware of the degeneration of the gene pool throughout the ages of man interbreeding and because of this, decided against openly advocating brother/sister incest in the few three pages of the Bible although that's exactly what must have happened. This is purely speculation of course, since I have no idea and Abram married Sarai, his half-sister

If not anything else, this thread was good for a morning laugh before my coffee.

"Ok, guys, this is God, listen up..... I really don't like inbreeding but it looks like we have no choice here.... so it's ok for a little while but then, Knock it off!! God has spoken!!!

Monty Python couldn't write better material.....

When they switch fact with methaphor it is to support what they believe for it must be right. They make a blind leap of faith.

These verses about killing the children where made in and about times of siege, a city siege. City is then being starved and the verse goes about the wickness that comes with it. On the other hand it try's to tell that if you are undersiege and on the side of good, done nothing wrong, then you will not surrender, it would be a sin in their ancient eye's, and do everything you can to survive. And so one is blessed by killing a kid and another cursed.
Who say's jezus was not with us from the start, i know how twisted the bible has become, perhaps there is more to the dalai lama. Twisted, a reason why some peeps magical got wifes. An incompleet story and people ignore the gaps. Fighting an ignorant mass is like walking through a warm mosquito's.

**The Evil AC** I am not a number!!! User ID: 666 12-29-2011 08:51 PM

The Evil AC Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
Your ignorance is glowing. Rested also means "finished"

The Evil AC Wrote:
Still no word from the believrs because they have no answer to MY proof.

In the context of how it was written it does not show rested to be as finished. If you replace what was written as finished and not rested, it wouldn't make much sense. Just face it...You still can't explain why God had to rest if he is almighty. And why rest the entire day?
Did you ever think that a day is based on the Sun and the single complete rotation of the Earth? MAN was the one that created calendars...Not God. So I guess God created the Earth by using a time frame based on the length of time it takes for the Earth to rotate...but wait, if it took a week to create the earth.......and time is based of that said earth.....Holy shit!! A paradox!! Run for your lives!!!!! YOU FAIL!

I see that no one can explain it!

**Code11583**

In place of Apollonius of Tyana, they put their newly created savior, whom they named "Jesus Christ," who, THEN AND THERE, was first conceived and created in the minds of Roman priests who were later known as the Nicean Church Fathers

. ...So in place of Apollonius of Tyana, they put their newly created savior, whom they named "Jesus Christ," who, THEN AND THERE, was first conceived and created in the minds of Roman priests who were later known as the Nicean Church Fathers. As soon as Jesus was put in the place of Apollonius, the task of the Roman churchmen was TO DESTROY ALL RECORDS concerning Apollonius and his Essenian Early Christian followers during the first three centuries, so that the world might forever be kept in darkness concerning this COLLOSAL DECEPTION

http://www.squidoo.com/jesusapollonius

Just added this to the several other reason why you need to believe the truth.

Yes it is a good idea to change your ways and become more loving and accepting. But it is NOT the only way to heaven as been stated.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 70416 12-29-2011 09:09 PM

LoP Guest Wrote:

I don't have a problem with Christianity or Buddhism or any other religion so long as they harm none. However, this is seldom the case with certain Christians and Muslims.

and therein lies the problem, christianity and islam inherited the "i am right you are wrong, conquer the unbelievers" meme from Judaism - no other religion conquered and encouraged slaying the infidels like Judaism and the Torah. this is why people find christians so obnoxious, more so on the internet than in person.

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

real loving....
Tissue

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 70416 12-29-2011 09:11 PM

seasnake Wrote:

Hell, my ancestory is German/Italian, and as far as I know my relatives were the ones that tossed Christians into the arenas and nailed Jesus onto the stake.

lol, germany the home of martin luther, and italy, the home of rome. sure...the history of western civ is more or less the history of christianity.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 70416 12-29-2011 09:12 PM

shiny happy god!

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.

(Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

**seasnake**

LoP Guest Wrote:

seasnake Wrote:
Hell, my ancestory is German/Italian, and as far as I know my relatives were the ones that tossed Christians into the arenas and nailed Jesus onto the stake.

lol, germany the home of martin luther, and italy, the home of rome. sure...the history of western civ is more or less the history of christianity.

I'll go with the ancient ancestors that preceeded Charlemagne than with those after. My German ancestors are atheists but not sure how far back atheism goes in the ancient history of my family. Charlemagne forced everyone to convert or they were put to death.

**Mohammed**

LoP Guest Wrote:

and therein lies the problem, christianity and islam inherited the "i am right you are wrong, conquer the unbelievers" meme from Judaism - no other religion conquered and encouraged slaying the infidels like Judaism and the Torah. this is why people find christians so obnoxious, more so on the internet than in person.

I never have any difficulties with Christians, Catholics, JWs or Mormons in person. They take one look at me and assume. Lmao

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 14792 12-29-2011 09:25 PM

The Evil AC Wrote:

The Evil AC Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:
Your ignorance is glowing. Rested also means "finished"

In the context of how it was written it does not show rested to be as finished. If you replace what was written as finished and not rested, it wouldn't make much sense. Just face it...You still can't explain why God had to rest if he is almighty. And why rest the entire day?
Did you ever think that a day is based on the Sun and the single complete rotation of the Earth? MAN was the one that created calendars...Not God. So I guess God created the Earth by using a time frame based on the length of time it takes for the Earth to rotate...but wait, if it took a week to create the earth.......and time is based of that said earth.....Holy shit!! A paradox!! Run for your lives!!!!! YOU FAIL!

I see that no one can explain it!

Good question about the day of rest, i think God had to reflect on the things he did and perhaps it is a human invention for we definitly have to reflect on the things we do. We need proper time to look at the results and discus the quality of the fruit it has brought. This is no longer being done properly in this fast moving world where we have deadlines to meet and no time to spare.

God created our solar system and we based our calendars on the earth orbit and rotation. We took what was already there and made it into a calendar. Our current version is truly human made, roman made, just look at your birthday. If it is 3 then it is alway's on 3 but look at the day, this year monday next year tuesday. Look at sunday, day of rest, alway's on sunday but then the number changes. Either your birthday or the holy day is a joke chuckle

. In the mayan calendar all these day's and times are fixxed in place, 3 on monday is then alway's 3 on monday. That calendar works with their solar calendar which is why it is so accurate. God created this and the cycles so God provided the means to, God gave us a calendar.

A paradox, where ? We are bound to this time, God is not. Discussing it however is futile.

**Wolf Pup** · (This post was last modified: 12-29-2011 09:27 PM by Wolf Pup.)

The Evil AC Wrote:

The Evil AC Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:
Your ignorance is glowing. Rested also means "finished"

In the context of how it was written it does not show rested to be as finished. If you replace what was written as finished and not rested, it wouldn't make much sense. Just face it...You still can't explain why God had to rest if he is almighty. And why rest the entire day?
Did you ever think that a day is based on the Sun and the single complete rotation of the Earth? MAN was the one that created calendars...Not God. So I guess God created the Earth by using a time frame based on the length of time it takes for the Earth to rotate...but wait, if it took a week to create the earth.......and time is based of that said earth.....Holy shit!! A paradox!! Run for your lives!!!!! YOU FAIL!

I see that no one can explain it!

Hey "J" or AC 69538....I await your explanation on this

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 70416 12-29-2011 09:26 PM

Mohammed Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
and therein lies the problem, christianity and islam inherited the "i am right you are wrong, conquer the unbelievers" meme from Judaism - no other religion conquered and encouraged slaying the infidels like Judaism and the Torah. this is why people find christians so obnoxious, more so on the internet than in person.
I never have any difficulties with Christians, Catholics, JWs or Mormons in person. They take one look at me and assume.

well now the west just invades the countries, its a form of prostelyzation via sword, you should know islamic countries see the usa as a "christian" country. politics, ideals (freedom), and jesus intertwined in one at the end of an m16 barrel.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 70416 12-29-2011 09:28 PM

seasnake Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
seasnake Wrote:
Hell, my ancestory is German/Italian, and as far as I know my relatives were the ones that tossed Christians into the arenas and nailed Jesus onto the stake.

lol, germany the home of martin luther, and italy, the home of rome. sure...the history of western civ is more or less the history of christianity.

I'll go with the ancient ancestors that preceeded Charlemagne than with those after. My German ancestors are atheists but not sure how far back atheism goes in the ancient history of my family. Charlemagne forced everyone to convert or they were put to death.

interesting. and good point, evangelicals like to point out how islam was spread through violence, or by the sword, christianity was spread in very much the same way. even the so called reformers were some ruthless fuckers, martin luther, john calvin, etc.