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**Angry Red Man**

LoP Guest Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
presidents can turn on a switch and make everything magically the way they want it.

he can if he's Ron Paul, the magical president!

At least Ron Paul actually understands the Constitution unlike the majority of the hacks that have squatted in that office including the present pretender.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 92168 04-23-2012 11:26 PM

Angry Red Man Wrote:

Take the challenge then. Explain to me why Libertarian principles won't work.

I'll waste another ten minutes of my time,
although this is available for anyone who wants to really know.

Liberterianism is peer-to-peer, which means it can't create complex structures.
Our economy, on the other hand, is hierarchical because it's built on the assumption of job specialization. In other words, the people running the government actually DO know more than YOU do about running a government and creating an efficient economy.

You get efficiency or you get freedom,
you don't get both.

**Angry Red Man**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Angry Red Man Wrote:
Take the challenge then. Explain to me why Libertarian principles won't work.

I'll waste another ten minutes of my time,
although this is available for anyone who wants to really know.

Liberterianism is peer-to-peer, which means it can't create complex structures.
Our economy, on the other hand, is hierarchical because it's built on the assumption of job specialization. In other words, the people running the government actually DO know more than YOU do about running a government and creating an efficient economy.

You get efficiency or you get freedom,
you don't get both.

We have efficiency now? You could have fooled the hell out of me.

What I see now is more and more political appointees, more and more government jobs and more and more goons added to the varied agencies such as DHS and TSA. Overlapping job descriptions so that even if your good with one department you run afoul of another for the exact same issue. Massive waste of finances right across the board. And all of these clowns being financed off the hard work of people like you and me.

And don't get me started on the economy. The government does not help the economy. The government is a parasite upon the economy. Non-productive jobs that do nothing but put barriers in the way of people with actual motivation in creating positions that actually make something or provide an actual service.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 92008 04-23-2012 11:38 PM

LoP Guest Wrote:

Angry Red Man Wrote:
Take the challenge then. Explain to me why Libertarian principles won't work.

I'll waste another ten minutes of my time,
although this is available for anyone who wants to really know.

Liberterianism is peer-to-peer, which means it can't create complex structures.
Our economy, on the other hand, is hierarchical because it's built on the assumption of job specialization. In other words, the people running the government actually DO know more than YOU do about running a government and creating an efficient economy.

You get efficiency or you get freedom,
you don't get both.

OH MY GAWD WHAT KIND OF SHIT DO THEY MAKE YOU DRINK OVER THERE AT THE GUBMINT SHILL BOT FACTORY???

CAN YOU TIE YOUR SHOES AND BLOW YOUR NOSE??

HOW ABOUT WIPE YOUR ASS??

Jptdknpa

**Devout Agnostic**

LoP Guest Wrote:

I'll waste another ten minutes of my time,
although this is available for anyone who wants to really know.

Liberterianism is peer-to-peer, which means it can't create complex structures.
Our economy, on the other hand, is hierarchical because it's built on the assumption of job specialization. In other words, the people running the government actually DO know more than YOU do about running a government and creating an efficient economy.

You get efficiency or you get freedom,
you don't get both.

Freedom, please.

Quote:"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." —Robert Heinlein

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 82316 04-23-2012 11:42 PM

Angry Red Man Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
Angry Red Man Wrote:
So you prefer a nanny state such as Stalin wanted or a fascist state like Hitlers?

Libertarianism has never really been given a chance. Certain monied interests such as the Rothschild banking mafia have always managed to lever their way in and ruin things for the rest of us. The US was putting along quite fine until the mafia decided it wanted a cut and started a few wars and bought a few politicians and squirmed their slimy way in with the Federal Reserve Act.

It all went downhill from there. And you seem to want the status quo to continue. Possibly even worse if you have your way.

Way to our yourself as a ideology driven faither.....

Seriously, just because someone does not agree with Libertarianism does not make them a f*cking stalin fascist state lover...

What the f*ck is wrong with you?

Why are you only aware of two political choices when there are many?

Take the challenge then. Explain to me why Libertarian principles won't work.

I may be an ideology driven faither but at least I'm open and honest about it. And my ideology allows everyone to have their say and not black bagged to another country for indefinite rendition for holding a contrary opinion.

I do not try to sway faith driven people, its a waste of time.

**Angry Red Man**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Angry Red Man Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:
Way to our yourself as a ideology driven faither.....

Seriously, just because someone does not agree with Libertarianism does not make them a f*cking stalin fascist state lover...

What the f*ck is wrong with you?

Why are you only aware of two political choices when there are many?

Take the challenge then. Explain to me why Libertarian principles won't work.

I may be an ideology driven faither but at least I'm open and honest about it. And my ideology allows everyone to have their say and not black bagged to another country for indefinite rendition for holding a contrary opinion.

I do not try to sway faith driven people, its a waste of time.

And yet here I am trying to educate you. How ironic.

chuckle

**Wyldflwr**

You're right. It only worked for the first 150 years of our country's formation.

How's that donkey vs. elephant working out for you?

chuckle

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 82316 04-24-2012 12:00 AM

Wyldflwr Wrote:

You're right. It only worked for the first 150 years of our country's formation.

How's that donkey vs. elephant working out for you?

I believe the classic response is "worked for whom exactly?"

**Twatwaffle** lop guest User ID: 92174 04-24-2012 12:21 AM

LoP Guest Wrote:

In other words, the people running the government actually DO know more than YOU do about running a government and creating an efficient economy.

Could have fooled me, with the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

But I remain open to the possibility that you are correct, so:

Exactly how much more power do these masterminds need to usurp to create the utopia they've been promising?

Because I'm beginning to lose faith.

**The Evil AC** I am not a number!!! User ID: 666 04-24-2012 07:40 AM

Wyldflwr Wrote:

You're right. It only worked for the first 150 years of our country's formation.

How's that donkey vs. elephant working out for you?

A slavery driven expolitative system with a replaceable workforce is NOT liberty.
Or do you think all the people in the Industrial revolution loved it to live in the factory and if they got sick they were screwed?

And the Ron Paul revolution is funded by Peter Thiel, a bilderberger, his other biggest contributor is a military weapons manufacturer.

And the Goldstandard was an idea of the CFR and the Rothshilds have all the gold.
Then there is the free market fairy tale in which the Rockefellers Rothchilds etc can take over once and for all bye buying everyhing they want witthout any regulation.

The french revolution btw, mister retardo WASNt anything illuminati,it was one of the few genune revolutions, but cultist retards will never think or read for themselves.

And the reason why libertarianism always failed is that people are f*cking idiots.
You cant govern yoursefl, you cant live in a society, on your won,and there arent only nice people out there helping each other.

in a libertarian society, the first criminal who wants power will get it.

**Arch Phoenix**

Twatwaffle Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
In other words, the people running the government actually DO know more than YOU do about running a government and creating an efficient economy.

Could have fooled me, with the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

But I remain open to the possibility that you are correct, so:

Exactly how much more power do these masterminds need to usurp to create the utopia they've been promising?

Because I'm beginning to lose faith.

The problem with the american governbment is sadly rooted in the constitution.
Your government consists only of 2 parties, and not one politician has to be afraid that he will lose his job if he sucks.
I cant tell you how many times politicians caved into the peoples demands cause they knew their power could be over soon if they dont cave in.

Your government doesnt care , cause with only 2 parties, there cant be a wrong one in power.

**Luvapottamus**

Early Federalist-leaning American newspapers during the French Revolution referred to the Democratic-Republican party as the "Jacobin Party". The most notable examples are the Gazette of the United States, published in Philadelphia, and the Delaware and Eastern Shore Advertiser, published in Wilmington, during the elections of 1798.

In modern American politics, the term Jacobin is often used to describe extremists of any party who demand ideological purity. For instance, in the lead-up to the 1964 Republican National Convention, the press referred to supporters of the insurgent Arizona conservative Barry Goldwater as "Cactus Jacobins" in their effort to unseat the moderate East Coast branch of the party (see Rockefeller Republican).[3] Goldwater had written in his seminal The Conscience of a Conservative (1960) that "Throughout history, true Conservatism has been at war equally with autocrats and with 'democratic' Jacobins."[4] The term was again used by some analysts with the advent of the Tea Party movement in 2009-2010, with The New Republic commentator Eve Fairbanks describing right-wing opponents of moderate Republican Congressman Wayne Gilchrest as "Jacobin conservatives".[5] In the May 27, 2010, issue of The New York Review of Books, Columbia professor Mark Lilla analyzed five recent books dealing with American political party discontent in a review titled, "The Tea Party Jacobins".[6] 2010 also saw the launch of an American based radical publication, Jacobin (magazine).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin_%28politics%29

French Jacobins were lefties.

So there's that.

Wiki supports the tea party Jacobin thing, but the Tea Party left Ron Paul, so there's that too.

You'd do better arguing Austrian Economics than this.

**Luvapottamus**

Arch Phoenix Wrote:

Twatwaffle Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:
In other words, the people running the government actually DO know more than YOU do about running a government and creating an efficient economy.

Could have fooled me, with the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

But I remain open to the possibility that you are correct, so:

Exactly how much more power do these masterminds need to usurp to create the utopia they've been promising?

Because I'm beginning to lose faith.

The problem with the american governbment is sadly rooted in the constitution.
Your government consists only of 2 parties, and not one politician has to be afraid that he will lose his job if he sucks.
I cant tell you how many times politicians caved into the peoples demands cause they knew their power could be over soon if they dont cave in.

Your government doesnt care , cause with only 2 parties, there cant be a wrong one in power.

The duopoly is nowhere in the constitution. It's extra-constitutional.

We've had other parties. Democrats haven't been around all that long.

**Strategos**

Comparing the French Revolution and Communism to Libertarianism?

Are you high?