@Beyond

You won't get the medical attention you need if the socialised system is so badly managed that it cannot provide it.

The two issues are inextricable.

I'm guessing that you've not needed the NHS too much recently.

Quote:Americans are conditioned from birth to fear the word 'socialism' and anything associated with it.

But, seriously, the UK's NHS is chock full of profiteering commissioners and 'preferential' deals, from drugs to consultant fees to bedpans.

LoP Guest  Wrote:

[quote='Uncle Alyosha' pid='4455249' dateline='1351366021']
It seems you and I agree on a lot!

You put it well: "the UK is generally existing beyond the scope of reason". I'd say that the beleaguered NHS is operating at a level of chronically defensive chaos where not much makes sense.

Yes, healthcare should, IMHO, be free at point of need to all, fairly, regardless of rank, station, ability to pay.

That was Bevan's vision. Like most socialist projects though, its workers found it easy to screw with the system for their own ends (be they ego, money, power, medals, fame, currying favour with gvt or drug companies etc). What's worse is that, as in most socialist systems, workers have a job for life regardless of whether they do the job well or not.

This lack of integrity, lack of accountability and failure to work to the vision is its downfall. My argument, in a nutshell, is that unless you have very rigorous and completely independent, non-political oversight of such a socialist system together with real accountability and genuine sanctions then it will never be or have a chance to become sustainable. As is, the NHS, like Cuba's and Canada's systems, is a co-dependent monster.

Socialist institutions and nations have shown this time and time again. In order to keep them going, leaders/managers/executives need to dictate and enforce their order in ever more scary ways and micro-manage to excruciating degrees. In such a healthcare system, patients become secondary or tertiary priorities. That's not sustainable for patients nor for the country as a whole.

I believe the naivety is in thinking we can translate a wonderful and necessary humanitarian concept into practice. The UK's been trying for more than 60 years now. If the NHS were a properly constituted healthcare company, instead of some weird hybrid hydra, it would have gone to the wall long before now with its stockholders, patients and workers screaming for all sorts of Public Inquiries and Judicial Reviews.

Speaking as an apolitical, the Tories aren't 'out to get' the NHS. They just have a bit more business sense than the Labour lot who have better spin merchants. IMHO, Thatcher's mistake was in calling in a supermarket (supermarket!!) boss to reform the NHS in the late 70s when she should have called in America's finest healthcare purveyors!

Not sure if I put this down clearly - obviously such a massive subject would take a book or two to explain it all. But you get my drift I hope!

You're splicing two different issues in a single issue.

Q:
1) Is socialized medicine better than for profit healthcare?
2) Can Britain organise an orgy in a brothel?

These are two different issues; The thread is about question 1)

A:
1) Yes
2) questionable

The NHS needs to be properly reviewed, not dismantled. Forget that national treasure nonsense, I care that I can get the medical attention I need IF I need it, without reams of paperwork or deciding to risk my health because of the financial implications of getting treatment.

>TrInItY<  Wrote:

A lot of scare tactics have been employed, claiming that healthcare in the USA is becoming socialized. Americans are conditioned from birth to fear the word 'socialism' and anything associated with it.

But here's simple proof that ONLY socialized medicine is sustainable:

Most businesses in a free market system have just one goal as #1. - to increase profits. Our current healthcare system in the USA is a business, so the primary goal is to make profits.

Sheeple say: "Uhm, but I thought the main goal was to keep people healthy."

So naive... Healthy people are the biggest threat to the healthcare BUSINESS.

In countries where there is socialized medicine, the main goal is actually to keep people healthy!!! Because sick people cost the system more money.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ONLY SOCIALIZED MEDICINE CAN BE THE MORAL AND CORRECT CHOICE?????

Don't let yourselves be fooled by another multimillion dollar marketing campaign, dear friends!

Wake up to the Truth!

Read the Obamacare bill. Not you OP. I expect nothing would change your tune. But before anybody buys this socialized medicine crap, they need to inform themselves.

Not