"If it harms none feel free to do it."

"Be excellent to each other."

There, I saved you a lot of time and worry over the rest of that BS.

Full Circle  Wrote:

LOPastor  Wrote:

I understand it is not Paulinity. But we quote him because he is SO good at pointing us PAST him and to Jesus. Never once does he take credit for himself, instead he takes all his accomplishments and makes them nothing in comparison with Jesus, and knowing him. Paul points to Jesus. And we point at what he says because what he is saying is pointing to Jesus.

"I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law. I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault. I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done. Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ" Philippians 3:5-8

Maybe what you need to look at is what Jesus is saying....and that is pointing PAST him to the Father.

But Jesus is the Father :) That is what makes the whole Christianity thing work.

LoP Guest  Wrote:

ĶĨĽĿŨМľŃǺŢľ  Wrote:

there is no hell

Then why does Jesus Christ warn of hell to the sinners?
I bet you're one of those new age christian types awaiting the anti christ. Only pleasing itching ears with "there is no hell". Do as thou wilt there is no hell so drink from the cup of sin and fornication and death. Your new age religion is death. Jesus Christ rebuke you.

f*ck your false religions and your false gods, they have zero power, grasshopper!!

.

barbsat  Wrote:

"If it harms none feel free to do it."

"Be excellent to each other."

There, I saved you a lot of time and worry over the rest of that BS.

NICE JOB!!!
Sneakin' in some good ole Satanism on us huh?
Very crafty... I hear your master gives yuh points for hiding stuff in plain sight.
Why... it kinda even sounds like the GOLDEN RULE!!!

LoP Guest  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

that seems pretty close to my understanding. hell is where God isn't. it is absence or separation from the Divine. we have shades of hell here on earth, but are never completely separated from the Creator.

as for the purpose of biblical law, what did Jesus say was the whole of the law? love God and the golden rule. that's it. and when the law isn't written into your heart, that's when you find yourself needing to be told everything to do, or not do.

"love God"

God is the Word, Old Testament and New Testament (John 1:1, Genesis
1:1), and man is to live by his every word (Matthew 4:4).

You think God gave man the Bible because it doesn't matter?

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a
liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4)

http://bible.cc/jeremiah/31-33.htm

http://bible.cc/hebrews/8-10.htm

LoP Guest  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

"love God"

God is the Word, Old Testament and New Testament (John 1:1, Genesis
1:1), and man is to live by his every word (Matthew 4:4).

You think God gave man the Bible because it doesn't matter?

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a
liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4)

http://bible.cc/jeremiah/31-33.htm

http://bible.cc/hebrews/8-10.htm

For by grace are ye saved through faith
(Ephesians 2:8)

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word (John 1:1, Gensesis 1:1) of God.
(Romans 10:17)

There was a Legit Question on another thread before I grew tired of the LOPGuest just going on a tirade and insulting people and I left. So I want to address that.

I made the argument that it wasn't by the Law; rather, obeying a bunch of rules, that produced salvation. Instead, the law was to show us our sinfulness and need for Jesus. It is through the Law, we become conscious of sin. We become aware of it. We recognize it. The acquaintance with the Law or condemnation of the Law, is what works us towards repentance and faith. This consciousness breaks the deception of thinking that we can be good enough to be accepted by God. The Law took away every hope of salvation except faith in a savior. This was the purpose of the Law.'

Romans 3:19-22
"Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are. But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

So then, naturally the next question is, I can do whatever I want then, right? Legit Question. That question is directly answered in the bible.

"Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? Romans 6:1-2

'God's forgiveness does not make sin less serious; Jesus' death for sin shows us the dreadful seriousness of the matter. Jesus paid with his life so we could be forgiven. The availability of God's mercy isn't an excuse for careless living and moral laxness.' In other words, just because we ARE forgiven, we still shouldn't try and sin, because God gave his life to forgive our sins.

So what should we do?

Well Colossians 3:1-10 says,

"Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth. For you died to this life, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. And when Christ, who is your life, is revealed to the whole world, you will share in all his glory. So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming. You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world. But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language. Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds. Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him."

But even if you're unable to do those things perfectly and you makes mistakes, our hope and salvation is still in Jesus.

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

For by grace are ye saved through faith
(Ephesians 2:8)

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word (John 1:1, Gensesis 1:1) of God.
(Romans 10:17)

Ahriman  Wrote:

You quote Paul, an ex-pharisee with baggage imho. Giving Paul the benefit of the doubt, he was writing well meaning letters - not scripture. His insistance on the Law is his one major failing. If your faith be what it says it is.

He contradicts the words of Jesus. He contradicts himself.

It's not Paulianity it's Christianity.

Just my 2cent.

Agree with Ahriman and would add my own points and that is if its going to be "CHRISTIANITY" that is going to be taught, it should be the words of Christ.

I have studied many religions. There is not one that is better than another. I have read the Bible many, many times. I rejected all the bs I was taught in Churches, "Christ"ian schools, and every source, dogma or doctrine other than the words of Christ. In those words there is truth.

Jesus never told his followers to build a church. Even told them NOT to worship him, only God the Father. He never said to follow the law, instead he broke the laws, on purpose and for a purpose. Why did he purposely heal, cast out demons, perform work, on the Sabbath? Overturn the money changer's tables and chase them out of the temple? To show that it is not the law and the teachings of priests and pharisees, and buying and selling has no place in the church. Instead it is the spirit of truth and acting justly, treating ones neighbor well, giving the shirt off ones back and coat as well, carrying a load for someone two miles - instead of one, stopping to help the injured person. Forsaking all earthly wealth and following Him.
Saved, rapture, grace through blood sacrifice, are not teachings of Christ, this is worship of a mystery, something else entirely.

The doctrines and laws of Ammon Amen Apollyon Mystery Babylon are blood and flesh sacrifice, hierarchy of priests, division between clergy and laymen, interpretation and doctrine of god through priests, salvation through belief and faith, enforced or encouraged tithing, monetary transactions in the churches, tax exemptions (give unto Caesar), laws/rules/cannons/offices/ordinations/cardinals/bishops/popes etc., confession, flagellation, prayers to saints, all idolatry.

Evangelism and bible thumping have destroyed any possible understanding of the teachings of Jesus (actually Yeshua) that people in this age might have found out on their own. Most reasonable, sane people hate someone in their face preaching, especially when they can tell the person sugar coating it doesn't believe it or follow it themselves.

The greatest scam satan ever pulled on humankind was to make them believe that faith, not works, is the key to salvation.

Every prayer ever said in the history of the world combined is less than one good open-hearted, kind and selfless action for a person in need.

There was a Legit Question on another thread before I grew tired of the LOPGuest just going on a tirade and insulting people and I left. So I want to address that.

I made the argument that it wasn't by the Law; rather, obeying a bunch of rules, that produced salvation. Instead, the law was to show us our sinfulness and need for Jesus. It is through the Law, we become conscious of sin. We become aware of it. We recognize it. The acquaintance with the Law or condemnation of the Law, is what works us towards repentance and faith. This consciousness breaks the deception of thinking that we can be good enough to be accepted by God. The Law took away every hope of salvation except faith in a savior. This was the purpose of the Law.'

Romans 3:19-22
"Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are. But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

So then, naturally the next question is, I can do whatever I want then, right? Legit Question. That question is directly answered in the bible.

"Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? Romans 6:1-2

'God's forgiveness does not make sin less serious; Jesus' death for sin shows us the dreadful seriousness of the matter. Jesus paid with his life so we could be forgiven. The availability of God's mercy isn't an excuse for careless living and moral laxness.' In other words, just because we ARE forgiven, we still shouldn't try and sin, because God gave his life to forgive our sins.

So what should we do?

Well Colossians 3:1-10 says,

"Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth. For you died to this life, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. And when Christ, who is your life, is revealed to the whole world, you will share in all his glory. So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming. You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world. But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language. Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds. Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him."

But even if you're unable to do those things perfectly and you makes mistakes, our hope and salvation is still in Jesus.

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

Johntaraz  Wrote:

Ahriman  Wrote:

You quote Paul, an ex-pharisee with baggage imho. Giving Paul the benefit of the doubt, he was writing well meaning letters - not scripture. His insistance on the Law is his one major failing. If your faith be what it says it is.

He contradicts the words of Jesus. He contradicts himself.

It's not Paulianity it's Christianity.

Just my 2cent.

Agree with Ahriman and would add my own points and that is if its going to be "CHRISTIANITY" that is going to be taught, it should be the words of Christ.

I have studied many religions. There is not one that is better than another. I have read the Bible many, many times. I rejected all the bs I was taught in Churches, "Christ"ian schools, and every source, dogma or doctrine other than the words of Christ. In those words there is truth.

Jesus never told his followers to build a church. Even told them NOT to worship him, only God the Father. He never said to follow the law, instead he broke the laws, on purpose and for a purpose. Why did he purposely heal, cast out demons, perform work, on the Sabbath? Overturn the money changer's tables and chase them out of the temple? To show that it is not the law and the teachings of priests and pharisees, and buying and selling has no place in the church. Instead it is the spirit of truth and acting justly, treating ones neighbor well, giving the shirt off ones back and coat as well, carrying a load for someone two miles - instead of one, stopping to help the injured person. Forsaking all earthly wealth and following Him.
Saved, rapture, grace through blood sacrifice, are not teachings of Christ, this is worship of a mystery, something else entirely.

The doctrines and laws of Ammon Amen Apollyon Mystery Babylon are blood and flesh sacrifice, hierarchy of priests, division between clergy and laymen, interpretation and doctrine of god through priests, salvation through belief and faith, enforced or encouraged tithing, monetary transactions in the churches, tax exemptions (give unto Caesar), laws/rules/cannons/offices/ordinations/cardinals/bishops/popes etc., confession, flagellation, prayers to saints, all idolatry.

Evangelism and bible thumping have destroyed any possible understanding of the teachings of Jesus (actually Yeshua) that people in this age might have found out on their own. Most reasonable, sane people hate someone in their face preaching, especially when they can tell the person sugar coating it doesn't believe it or follow it themselves.

The greatest scam satan ever pulled on humankind was to make them believe that faith, not works, is the key to salvation.

Every prayer ever said in the history of the world combined is less than one good open-hearted, kind and selfless action for a person in need.

I'm more of the opinion that the greatest scam the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he doesn't exist.

Also, how would you respond to this verse:

Ephesians 2:8 & 9
For it is by his grace that we have been saved through faith, and this faith was not from you, but it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest anyone should boast.


You see, when someone becomes a christian, their works will SHOW their faith. I agree with everything you say about church, priests, pastors, ministers, etc. I am a christian, worships Christ and God in spirit and in truth, pray, and spread the Gospel to those who haven't heard it or don't understand it. But I do not think works are necessary. I truly believe from what I have learned that FAITH is all that matters to God, because if you can have faith, you have made the biggest leap: trusting Christ. Once you trust that he was who he said he was, you inevitably believe that every word he spoke was the word of God, and will do exactly what he said; IE: your works will show this.

Your salvation is not BECAUSE of your works, for then a man who is a christian millionaire who gives $500,000 to the poor every year could boast that he is a greater christian than a man who makes $10,000
and gives every penny, plus the shirt off his back, to his neighbor.

Your works and obedience to Christ's commands will change the moment you believe. You can read the Bible as an atheist and agree that what Jesus says is pretty smart, not believe in God, or that Jesus was the son of God, and still have GREAT works. But if you never believed in God or Jesus in your life, how do your works matter?


Obviously we are DOING things all our lives. Breathing, eating, etc. A believer will preach the Gospel everywhere they go, and always do what Christ taught. Their wors don't save them though...


I don't want to mock or belittle or anything. This argument of "faith + works" = salvation is an interesting one to me. I'm very interested to read your response. Once again, as I've stated above, it's my view that true believers will produce works that go along with Christ's teaching, but not that they should believe their works are what is saving them.