News

**OTOC** · (This post was last modified: 03-06-2012 06:34 AM by OTOC.)

OpenEnded Wrote:

a sign that we hit the peak of sc24..

a lot of talk in here today about sunspot 1429
but i have not seen anyone mention that this large northern sunspot region have the same polarity characteristics as a southern located sunspot

for anyone who may not know
the polaritys reverse when the sun goes through a solar reversal, also known as the solar maximum
at that time, the leading polaritys of the sunspot regions switch places

we can see in this magnetogram image taken in 2002
[link to soi.stanford.edu]
that sunspots in the northern region are of a positive/negative structure
with the leading area (on the right) being positive (white), and on the left being the negative
(white on the right, black on the left)
in the southern sunspots, its the opposite
(black on right, white on the left)

when the sun went through a polar reversal in around 2003, that it does each 10-12 years, these polaritys reverse
this is why, we now see sunspots in the northern region with black on the right, white on the left
and the sunspots in the southern region white on the right, and black on the left
as we see here in a magnetogram image from SDO for March 7th 2011
the day this thread was made
[link to sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov]

now compair that magnetogram image to the latest magnetogram image for today
[link to sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov]

notice anything odd?
how about how... this huge sunspot 1429 has the same polarity (positive/negative - white on right, black on left) and the ones in the southern region do
1429 is the opposite of all other northern region sunspots

"
sorry the links don't work but the black and white patterns are pretty easy to see..

To the point, try look at sunspot genesis http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/assets/img/brow...2_HMIB.jpg that's 1429 on the far north east.

And take a close look http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/assets/img/brow...2_HMIB.jpg

Sunspots are a convoluted mess of magnetic field lines for the most part and the magnetogram only has the ability to see the surface, but basically, for 1429 the polarity is the same as the rest in the northern, it's just been so twisted over the days that it appears at a quick glance to be the alternate polarity.

look close you can see the 'white' on the left on it, look earlier in it's life and you can more clearly see the 'white' on the left.

Further note, If the magnetic poles had shifted you would see massive uprising in the 'normal' polarity sunspots, and that sunspot would actually be extremely calm for it's size.

Anon

**OpenEnded** · (This post was last modified: 03-06-2012 06:59 AM by OpenEnded.)

LoP Guest Wrote:

I was under the impression that the solar maximum is an 11 year cycle (give or take), but the greater cycle was a 22 year cycle. That the sun reverses polarity every 22 years not every solar maximum, but every other one.

Am I mistaken?

the cycles start with a new polarity, and the sun changes polarities mid cycle from my understanding..

EDIT.. the polarities change once per 11 year cycle..
edit2.. the full cycle is two 11 year (roughly) cycles, terminology issues

**OpenEnded** · **RE: Solar Watch: 8 X Flares and 76 M Flares so far, starting 7/27/11**

The Janitor Wrote:

look close you can see the 'white' on the left on it, look earlier in it's life and you can more clearly see the 'white' on the left.

Further note, If the magnetic poles had shifted you would see massive uprising in the 'normal' polarity sunspots, and that sunspot would actually be extremely calm for it's size.

thx janitor,

it is all twisted, for sure, but i see a lot of white on that western side, and poking around a bit in the forums i see more people talking about it. supposedly 3 or 4% of all regions have reverse polarity for whatever reasons (ijust read that on the solarham forum)..

aren't we due for a maximum?

we'll have to see more to know if this is a reversal i suppose..

**OpenEnded** · (This post was last modified: 03-06-2012 06:47 AM by OpenEnded.)

here;s an article about the reversals..

The solar magnetic cycle that flips polarity at the poles approximately every 11 years is dependent on the reversing flux from spent sunspots that migrate to the poles. During this cycle we are already seeing low sunspot activity as well as an increase in the speck ratio. Now we are seeing Negative Sunspots that will continue to erode the power of solar cycle 24. I think this will show a cycle that is out of magnetic balance, and will require another subsequent cycle before we get back on track to normal solar activity

http://www.landscheidt.info/?q=node/196

**OTOC** · **RE: Solar Watch: 8 X Flares and 76 M Flares so far, starting 7/27/11**

OpenEnded Wrote:

thx janitor,

it is all twisted, for sure, but i see a lot of white on that western side, and poking around a bit in the forums i see more people talking about it. supposedly 3 or 4% of all regions have reverse polarity for whatever reasons (ijust read that on the solarham forum)..

aren't we due for a maximum?

we'll have to see more to know if this is a reversal i suppose..

Yes indeed some do, but there is a reason that sunspot is so active and that is that it is fighting against the magnetic polarity, it started out as a normal polarity sunspot and changed into what we see now.

People talking about things doesn't make them true, remember all that with venus on the cor 2 camera's and how people thought that venus had a coronal mass ejection because of the diffraction of light entering the camera baffles?

Trust me this sunspot is just twisted to the point that it looks like it's the alternate polarity.

Further, sunspot cycles, solar cycles aren't exactly 11 years so can be much longer, some shorter, sometime in the future we will have one, but exactly when that is and if it will be soon is for the most part just a guess.

Best estimates put the max in 2014.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 79813 03-06-2012 06:50 AM

OpenEnded Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
I was under the impression that the solar maximum is an 11 year cycle (give or take), but the greater cycle was a 22 year cycle. That the sun reverses polarity every 22 years not every solar maximum, but every other one.

Am I mistaken?

the cycles start with a new polarity, and the sun changes polarities mid cycle from my understanding..

11 years: Most obvious is a gradual increase and more rapid decrease of the number of sunspots over a period ranging from 9 to 12 years, called the Schwabe cycle, named after Heinrich Schwabe. Differential rotation of the sun's convection zone (as a function of latitude) consolidates magnetic flux tubes, increases their magnetic field strength and makes them buoyant (see Babcock Model). As they rise through the solar atmosphere they partially block the convective flow of energy, cooling their region of the photosphere, causing 'sunspots'. The Sun's apparent surface, the photosphere, radiates more actively when there are more sunspots. Satellite monitoring of solar luminosity since 1980 has shown there is a direct relationship between the solar activity (sunspot) cycle and luminosity with a solar cycle peak-to-peak amplitude of about 0.1 %.[3] Luminosity has also been found to decrease by as much as 0.3 % on a 10 day timescale when large groups of sunspots rotate across the Earth's view and increase by as much as 0.05 % for up to 6 months due to faculae associated with the large sunspot groups.[23]
22 years: Hale cycle, named after George Ellery Hale. The magnetic field of the Sun reverses during each Schwabe cycle, so the magnetic poles return to the same state after two reversals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation

The physical basis of the solar cycle was elucidated in the early twentieth century by George Ellery Hale and collaborators, who in 1908 showed that sunspots were strongly magnetized (this was the first detection of magnetic fields outside the Earth), and in 1919 went on to show that the magnetic polarity of sunspot pairs:
Is always the same in a given solar hemisphere throughout a given sunspot cycle;
Is opposite across hemispheres throughout a cycle;
Reverses itself in both hemispheres from one sunspot cycle to the next.
Hale's observations revealed that the solar cycle is a magnetic cycle with an average duration of 22 years. However, because very nearly all manifestations of the solar cycle are insensitive to magnetic polarity, it remains common usage to speak of the "11-year solar cycle".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cycle

Ok so the 22 year cycle is stating this? if 1990 is + then 2001 is - and 2012 is +

hmmmm ok, my apologies perhaps it does reverse polarity every 11 years thereabouts.

So ok, just to make sure I have gotten this right, because apparently I have been given some bad info.

The sun is currently in the same polarity that it was in during the 1990 solar max, or cycle 22 correct?

So If I assign cycle 24 a + value, I can go back for each cycle + - + - correct?

**OpenEnded** · (This post was last modified: 03-06-2012 07:11 AM by OpenEnded.)

LoP Guest Wrote:

The sun is currently in the same polarity that it was in during the 1990 solar max, or cycle 22 correct?

So If I assign cycle 24 a + value, I can go back for each cycle + - + - correct?

i assume so, but i've never checked those. that's the way it works from my understanding (which is currently challenged:/)

but yes, one cycle of 22 years(roughly) containing 2 dominant polarities for 11 years each..

the current cycle (really half cycle) of sc24 seems to be showing signs of reversal earlier than expected, calling for a possibly weaker or shorter cycle than average..

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 79813 03-06-2012 07:10 AM

Thanks OE I am just know starting to really look into these things. I have lots to learn still.

**OpenEnded** · **RE: Solar Watch: 8 X Flares and 76 M Flares so far, starting 7/27/11**

LoP Guest Wrote:

Thanks OE I am just know starting to really look into these things. I have lots to learn still.

you're welcome, glad u could make it..

**OpenEnded** · **RE: Solar Watch: 8 X Flares and 76 M Flares so far, starting 7/27/11**

The Janitor Wrote:

Best estimates put the max in 2014.

glad to see you're hanging with us old friend.. seems like the old suntard guard will never go away:)

**OpenEnded** · **RE: Solar Watch: 8 X Flares and 76 M Flares so far, starting 7/27/11**

"This always happens around the time of solar maximum," says David Hathaway, a solar physicist at the Marshall Space Flight Center. "The magnetic poles exchange places at the peak of the sunspot cycle. In fact, it's a good indication that Solar Max is really here."
...
The Sun's magnetic poles will remain as they are now, with the north magnetic pole pointing through the Sun's southern hemisphere, until the year 2012 when they will reverse again. This transition happens, as far as we know, at the peak of every 11-year sunspot cycle -- like clockwork.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sci...st15feb_1/

**808hawk** · **808hawk** ∆ User ID: 17901 03-06-2012 08:18 AM **Posts: 2,399**

Solarham hadn't heard of that, good site, thanks op.

**808hawk** · **808hawk** ∆ User ID: 17901 03-06-2012 08:25 AM **Posts: 2,399**

Does anyone know how long a reversal takes. Is it over a fairly long period like a year or months. Is it possibly a whamo event.

**OpenEnded** · **RE: Solar Watch: 8 X Flares and 76 M Flares so far, starting 7/27/11**

808hawk Wrote:

Does anyone know how long a reversal takes. Is it over a fairly long period like a year or months. Is it possibly a whamo event.

it starts in the core and takes about a year to show up on the surface. chances are it has already started. whether 1429 is reversed or if that means the cycle is reaching maximum are still debateable imo..

**808hawk** · **808hawk** ∆ User ID: 81790 03-06-2012 09:57 AM **Posts: 2,399**

OpenEnded Wrote:

808hawk Wrote:
Does anyone know how long a reversal takes. Is it over a fairly long period like a year or months. Is it possibly a whamo event.

it starts in the core and takes about a year to show up on the surface. chances are it has already started. whether 1429 is reversed or if that means the cycle is reaching maximum are still debateable imo..

thank you. So are sunspots multiple poles, much like what's predicted as a prelude to a magnetic pole reversal on earth. Or are they just solar weather as in edi's and currents similar to cloud formations high and low pressures and densities.