While I would prefer my Glock to a 22lr in a confrontation a 22lr in the hands of a skilled user with good ammo is hardly "wasp spray".
I'm thinking along along these lines, too. with enough practice, you could just take 10 headshots, and that comes down to how much ammo you can afford to practice with.
“The only war that matters is the war against the imagination.
All other wars are subsumed in it.” —Diane DiPrima
While I would prefer my Glock to a 22lr in a confrontation a 22lr in the hands of a skilled user with good ammo is hardly "wasp spray".
I'm thinking along along these lines, too. with enough practice, you could just take 10 headshots, and that comes down to how much ammo you can afford to practice with.
Pfft just a few to the chest man. Get one, shoot a turkey you buy from the store. You'd be surprised what damage they do.
oh, also DO NOT BUY A CHEAP GUN. It will be worthless and you will be left feeling ripped off and frustrated. If you can't have what you want now, wait and save your money. Go to a gun show, many people will be selling their own collections there. This is the best place to make deals.
While I would prefer my Glock to a 22lr in a confrontation a 22lr in the hands of a skilled user with good ammo is hardly "wasp spray".
I'm thinking along along these lines, too. with enough practice, you could just take 10 headshots, and that comes down to how much ammo you can afford to practice with.
Pfft just a few to the chest man. Get one, shoot a turkey you buy from the store. You'd be surprised what damage they do.
This is the kind of stuff i need to hear. I've shot a 22 pistol before, but nothing fleshy, the target was a hollow interior door, and it wasnt very impressive in that context. i had to look pretty hard to find the holes it made.
“The only war that matters is the war against the imagination.
All other wars are subsumed in it.” —Diane DiPrima
oh, also DO NOT BUY A CHEAP GUN. It will be worthless and you will be left feeling ripped off and frustrated. If you can't have what you want now, wait and save your money. Go to a gun show, many people will be selling their own collections there. This is the best place to make deals.
couldnt agree more.
One of the reasons I favor the all-22 route is that the top-of-the-line is bottom-of-the-barrel-priced compared to higher calibers.
“The only war that matters is the war against the imagination.
All other wars are subsumed in it.” —Diane DiPrima
Free Range Humans Registered User User ID: 90627 04-23-2012 03:31 PM
Posts: 1,866
I'm thinking along along these lines, too. with enough practice, you could just take 10 headshots, and that comes down to how much ammo you can afford to practice with.
Pfft just a few to the chest man. Get one, shoot a turkey you buy from the store. You'd be surprised what damage they do.
This is the kind of stuff i need to hear. I've shot a 22 pistol before, but nothing fleshy, the target was a hollow interior door, and it wasnt very impressive in that context. i had to look pretty hard to find the holes it made.
Human's die all the time from "pinhole" leaks in organs and critical arteries but most importantly is to choose the right ammo. You can practice with cheap bulk like Remington Golden Bullet for $20 per 500 but when it comes to putting meat in the pot or even something more serious CCI Minimag is the minimum with CCI Velocitor being the most potent for pistols.
itsuitsthewest Registered User User ID: 92077 04-23-2012 03:52 PM
Posts: 275
Hello there DA, actually a .22 is deadly for a very simple reason, it has the force to enter the skull but not enough force to exit, so it goes in there and rattles around acting like a blender turning the brain to mush.
Religion huh? Millions of people killing each other over who has the best imaginary friend, yeah, ok.
Stormson Registered User User ID: 92085 04-23-2012 04:01 PM
Posts: 4,014
While I would prefer my Glock to a 22lr in a confrontation a 22lr in the hands of a skilled user with good ammo is hardly "wasp spray".
I'm thinking along along these lines, too. with enough practice, you could just take 10 headshots, and that comes down to how much ammo you can afford to practice with.
No, it doesnt. THIS is where real COMBAT training (or RL experience) comes into play over and above learning to shoot.
First of all, YES, you must practice and practice allot. Yes, the range is mandatory... HOWEVER, never EVER forget that killing beer cans is NOTHING like combat. The only place that people make perfect head shots is in Hollywood... It JUST doesnt happen in real life and your a fool if you try. Beer cans and paper targets dont move. They are not charging at you full speed... They are not coked up or methed out... They are not bobbing to and fro and hell bent on YOUR destruction. At the range, your hands are not shaking from the sudden shock, fear and adrenalin rush of a surprise attack. Dont EVER attempt to make a head shot in combat. Period.
Second... if you are determined to use a .22, then God help you... The only advice i can give you concerning ammo is to save the cheap stuff for the range... Keep it loaded with CCI Stingers at home.
It may be of interest that the Rugar is indeed a fine weapon. In fact (dont ask me how I know this), a silenced version was long the weapon of choice by the Mossad for assassination\ execution.
That being said, it is still a HORRIBLE choice for home defense. Yes, the .22 is responsible for a LARGE amount of killing the world over... The problem is not its lethality, but its STOPPING power. Most of those who die from it, die on the operating table hours later. My cousin was shot with a .22 standing right next to me.... it bounced around inside too, but he calmly walked to the bathroom, inspected the entrance wound and went upstairs to phone the ambulance.... He did not "nod out" for at least 10 mins. The point here is that, yes, you may kill him (my cousin lived), but thats really not at issue here. Its non of your BUSINESS if an intruder lives or dies... That is a responsibility that HE took on the moment he entered your home. What IS your business is STOPPING him. Stopping ALL forward motion... And doing so instantly, before he can do any, or any more, damage. The .22, IMO, simply cannot be relied upon to do that reliably. Sure.. you MIGHT get lucky and pull it off... Or you might not. Yes, it IS better then a can of wasp spray.... But damned if I'd bet my life, of the lives of my loved ones, on it.
Hello there DA, actually a .22 is deadly for a very simple reason, it has the force to enter the skull but not enough force to exit, so it goes in there and rattles around acting like a blender turning the brain to mush.
again with the headshots. my dad grew up on a farm, he told me about this once, and said this is how they would put down lame animals.
“The only war that matters is the war against the imagination.
All other wars are subsumed in it.” —Diane DiPrima
While I would prefer my Glock to a 22lr in a confrontation a 22lr in the hands of a skilled user with good ammo is hardly "wasp spray".
I'm thinking along along these lines, too. with enough practice, you could just take 10 headshots, and that comes down to how much ammo you can afford to practice with.
No, it doesnt. THIS is where real COMBAT training (or RL experience) comes into play over and above learning to shoot.
First of all, YES, you must practice and practice allot. Yes, the range is mandatory... HOWEVER, never EVER forget that killing beer cans is NOTHING like combat. The only place that people make perfect head shots is in Hollywood... It JUST doesnt happen in real life and your a fool if you try. Beer cans and paper targets dont move. They are not charging at you full speed... They are not coked up or methed out... They are not bobbing to and fro and hell bent on YOUR destruction. Dont EVER attempt to make a head shot in combat. Period.
i would happily accept combat training, but who needs perfection if youve got good aim and 10 chances per clip? thats a serious question btw. i appreciate all the feedback in here.
“The only war that matters is the war against the imagination.
All other wars are subsumed in it.” —Diane DiPrima
Stormson Registered User User ID: 92085 04-23-2012 04:14 PM
Posts: 4,014
I'm thinking along along these lines, too. with enough practice, you could just take 10 headshots, and that comes down to how much ammo you can afford to practice with.
No, it doesnt. THIS is where real COMBAT training (or RL experience) comes into play over and above learning to shoot.
First of all, YES, you must practice and practice allot. Yes, the range is mandatory... HOWEVER, never EVER forget that killing beer cans is NOTHING like combat. The only place that people make perfect head shots is in Hollywood... It JUST doesnt happen in real life and your a fool if you try. Beer cans and paper targets dont move. They are not charging at you full speed... They are not coked up or methed out... They are not bobbing to and fro and hell bent on YOUR destruction. Dont EVER attempt to make a head shot in combat. Period.
i would happily accept combat training, but who needs perfection if youve got good aim and 10 chances per clip? thats a serious question btw. i appreciate all the feedback in here.
You really think your gonna GET 10 shots???
Your not.
A full grown man, at full speed, can cover a distance of 21 feet in less then a single second.... HOW far away did you say he'd be inside your home?
At best you'll get 2-3 chances... Maybe only one. Your hands will be shaking... You wont be thinking straight and you may not even be able to SEE straight.
You shook... He bobbed... You missed that head shot. Your gutted like a fish with your wife and kid screaming in the background... NOW what?
THIS is reality. THIS is how most firefights take place.
No, it doesnt. THIS is where real COMBAT training (or RL experience) comes into play over and above learning to shoot.
First of all, YES, you must practice and practice allot. Yes, the range is mandatory... HOWEVER, never EVER forget that killing beer cans is NOTHING like combat. The only place that people make perfect head shots is in Hollywood... It JUST doesnt happen in real life and your a fool if you try. Beer cans and paper targets dont move. They are not charging at you full speed... They are not coked up or methed out... They are not bobbing to and fro and hell bent on YOUR destruction. Dont EVER attempt to make a head shot in combat. Period.
i would happily accept combat training, but who needs perfection if youve got good aim and 10 chances per clip? thats a serious question btw. i appreciate all the feedback in here.
You really think your gonna GET 10 shots???
Your not.
A full grown man, at full speed, can cover a distance of 21 feet in less then a single second.... HOW far away did you say he'd be inside your home?
At best you'll get 2-3 chances... Maybe only one. Your hands will be shaking... You wont be thinking straight and you may not even be able to SEE straight.
You shook... He bobbed... You missed that head shot. Your gutted like a fish with your wife and kid screaming in the background... NOW what?
THIS is reality. THIS is how most firefights take place.
Take this persons advice he knows what he's talking about, a .22 is a good choice for a trained assassin in a close quarters situ, but not for combat. I use a .22 long rifle, but only for vermin control, I'm simply not Rambo, and I just don't think walking around packing with the intention of killing in self defense is healthy. I am a fast runner, and as here in the UK there are not many fully automatic weapons, I think running is the best choice, but I am just a stupid limey with bad teeth!
Religion huh? Millions of people killing each other over who has the best imaginary friend, yeah, ok.
Free Range Humans Registered User User ID: 90627 04-23-2012 04:33 PM
Posts: 1,866
No, it doesnt. THIS is where real COMBAT training (or RL experience) comes into play over and above learning to shoot.
First of all, YES, you must practice and practice allot. Yes, the range is mandatory... HOWEVER, never EVER forget that killing beer cans is NOTHING like combat. The only place that people make perfect head shots is in Hollywood... It JUST doesnt happen in real life and your a fool if you try. Beer cans and paper targets dont move. They are not charging at you full speed... They are not coked up or methed out... They are not bobbing to and fro and hell bent on YOUR destruction. Dont EVER attempt to make a head shot in combat. Period.
i would happily accept combat training, but who needs perfection if youve got good aim and 10 chances per clip? thats a serious question btw. i appreciate all the feedback in here.
You really think your gonna GET 10 shots???
Your not.
A full grown man, at full speed, can cover a distance of 21 feet in less then a single second.... HOW far away did you say he'd be inside your home?
At best you'll 2-3 chances... Your hands will be shaking... You wont be thinking straight and you may not even be able to SEE straight.
You shook... He bobbed... You missed the head shot. Your gutted like a fish with your wife and kid screening in the background... NOW what?
THIS is reality. THIS is how most firefights take place.
I've seen a couple firefights myself and even an M240 isn't going to drop someone if all you did was pierce their love handles but a round of 5.56 will accidentally kill someone deader than a doornail at 1400M if it rains down in defilade and hits someone in the head. Inside a residential structure there is only so much room to move, you can hit someone down a hallaway or standing in a doorway as many times as you can pull the trigger and most of your bullets will hit paydirt.
Any gun will do if you will do.
If the OP can hit a volleyball sized target swinging on a rope he can hit a running man in the head at any distances he can legitimately call it "self defense".
Now it's up to him to buy his pistol and about 10 mags and burn up a brick of 22lr every weekend until he can "do the do".
He will probably get something bigger some day but the huge mistake I see people make is that they buy a gun that increases their wounding power but decreases their probability of hitting the target and cuts the amount of accurately fired rounds they can put in the air by 80%.
Better to be 100% with a 22lr than to be half-assed with a .45
Stormson Registered User User ID: 92094 04-23-2012 04:47 PM
Posts: 4,014
i would happily accept combat training, but who needs perfection if youve got good aim and 10 chances per clip? thats a serious question btw. i appreciate all the feedback in here.
You really think your gonna GET 10 shots???
Your not.
A full grown man, at full speed, can cover a distance of 21 feet in less then a single second.... HOW far away did you say he'd be inside your home?
At best you'll 2-3 chances... Your hands will be shaking... You wont be thinking straight and you may not even be able to SEE straight.
You shook... He bobbed... You missed the head shot. Your gutted like a fish with your wife and kid screening in the background... NOW what?
THIS is reality. THIS is how most firefights take place.
I've seen a couple firefights myself and even an M240 isn't going to drop someone if all you did was pierce their love handles but a round of 5.56 will accidentally kill someone deader than a doornail at 1400M if it rains down in defilade and hits someone in the head. Inside a residential structure there is only so much room to move, you can hit someone down a hallaway or standing in a doorway as many times as you can pull the trigger and most of your bullets will hit paydirt.
Any gun will do if you will do.
If the OP can hit a volleyball sized target swinging on a rope he can hit a running man in the head at any distances he can legitimately call it "self defense".
Now it's up to him to buy his pistol and about 10 mags and burn up a brick of 22lr every weekend until he can "do the do".
He will probably get something bigger some day but the huge mistake I see people make is that they buy a gun that increases their wounding power but decreases their probability of hitting the target and cuts the amount of accurately fired rounds they can put in the air by 80%.
Better to be 100% with a 22lr than to be half-assed with a .45
True enough except that a vollyball at the range will NOT be shooting back. He will not be under the stress that accompanies combat, and he will not have his own body and brain working against him as in real life combat. A .22LR may or may not pierce the scull, even if it DOES hit (unlikely)... Chances are under these circumstances he will get a glancing blow to one side or the other.
I would rather be able to do what your saying with a .45. But even if i could, I would still be aiming for center of mass.... And PERHAPS the femoral artery... Never the head.
As for the rest, I suggest the 12G over and above all else for home protection for many reasons. Loaded with 00B you get 21 rounds of .32 caliber in a single pull of the trigger.... Last i checked 21 was more then 10 and 32 was bigger then 22. You also have the issue of over penetration... Walls are not made of stone today. If he misses (and he WILL), where does that round end up? Does it go harmlessly into the ceiling? Or does it pass through the paper thin wall and hit your little girl asleep in her bed? The 12G has plenty of power if your aiming where you should be (center of mass), yet will be caught in most walls without going through them to do God knows what on the other side.
I DO understand the economic issues involved.... But HOW much is your life worth? The lives of your loved ones? Is this REALLY an area where you want to scrimp???
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George Soros Switches From Physical Gold to Gold Stocks and That is Very Bullish for Gold Prices
