Free Range Humans  Wrote:

Stormson  Wrote:

You really think your gonna GET 10 shots???

Your not.

A full grown man, at full speed, can cover a distance of 21 feet in less then a single second.... HOW far away did you say he'd be inside your home?

At best you'll 2-3 chances... Your hands will be shaking... You wont be thinking straight and you may not even be able to SEE straight.

You shook... He bobbed... You missed the head shot. Your gutted like a fish with your wife and kid screening in the background... NOW what?

THIS is reality. THIS is how most firefights take place.

I've seen a couple firefights myself and even an M240 isn't going to drop someone if all you did was pierce their love handles but a round of 5.56 will accidentally kill someone deader than a doornail at 1400M if it rains down in defilade and hits someone in the head. Inside a residential structure there is only so much room to move, you can hit someone down a hallaway or standing in a doorway as many times as you can pull the trigger and most of your bullets will hit paydirt.

Any gun will do if you will do.

If the OP can hit a volleyball sized target swinging on a rope he can hit a running man in the head at any distances he can legitimately call it "self defense".

Now it's up to him to buy his pistol and about 10 mags and burn up a brick of 22lr every weekend until he can "do the do".

He will probably get something bigger some day but the huge mistake I see people make is that they buy a gun that increases their wounding power but decreases their probability of hitting the target and cuts the amount of accurately fired rounds they can put in the air by 80%.

Better to be 100% with a 22lr than to be half-assed with a .45

True enough except that a vollyball at the range will NOT be shooting back. He will not be under the stress that accompanies combat, and he will not have his own body and brain working against him as in real life combat. A .22LR may or may not pierce the scull, even if it DOES hit (unlikely)... Chances are under these circumstances he will get a glancing blow to one side or the other.

I would rather be able to do what your saying with a .45. But even if i could, I would still be aiming for center of mass.... And PERHAPS the femoral artery... Never the head.

As for the rest, I suggest the 12G over and above all else for home protection for many reasons. Loaded with 00B you get 21 rounds of .32 caliber in a single pull of the trigger.... Last i checked 21 was more then 10 and 32 was bigger then 22. You also have the issue of over penetration... Walls are not made of stone today. If he misses (and he WILL), where does that round end up? Does it go harmlessly into the ceiling? Or does it pass through the paper thin wall and hit your little girl asleep in her bed? The 12G has plenty of power if your aiming where you should be (center of mass), yet will be caught in most walls without going through them to do God knows what on the other side.

I DO understand the economic issues involved.... But HOW much is your life worth? The lives of your loved ones? Is this REALLY an area where you want to scrimp???

I DO understand the economic issues involved.... But HOW much is your life worth? The lives of your loved ones? Is this REALLY an area where you want to scrimp???

Great for target practice but otherwise a pee shooter. Useless for self defense.

He will probably get something bigger some day but the huge mistake I see people make is that they buy a gun that increases their wounding power but decreases their probability of hitting the target and cuts the amount of accurately fired rounds they can put in the air by 80%.

You really think your gonna GET 10 shots???

Your not.

A full grown man, at full speed, can cover a distance of 21 feet in less then a single second.... HOW far away did you say he'd be inside your home?

At best you'll get 2-3 chances... Maybe only one. Your hands will be shaking... You wont be thinking straight and you may not even be able to SEE straight.

You shook... He bobbed... You missed that head shot. Your gutted like a fish with your wife and kid screaming in the background... NOW what?

THIS is reality. THIS is how most firefights take place.

I DO understand the economic issues involved.... But HOW much is your life worth? The lives of your loved ones? Is this REALLY an area where you want to scrimp???

Stormson  Wrote:

I DO understand the economic issues involved.... But HOW much is your life worth? The lives of your loved ones? Is this REALLY an area where you want to scrimp???

I get where you are coming from 100% and I defend my domicile with a Glock and a Benelli but I have also been professionally trained and put tens of thousands of rounds down rage in the last 22 years with someone else footing the bill for 8 of them. He doesn't have that kind of time, learning curve and maybe not even the budget to shoot up $20,000 worth of ammo to get in his groove so the 22lr might just be the best choice for him(not for everyone).

Look at some of the videos I posted, they show CCI Minimags and Velocitors in 22lr opening up to .40 caliber and getting 11in of penetration. That is adequate to kill any thin skinned animal under 300lbs if they are hit in the A-Zone of the thoracic cavity and for sure if they are hit in the brainpan.

If he only has limited resources and experience I would rather see him with a MkIII, 10 mags and 2,000+rds of ammo than a Glock 22C, 2 mags and 200rds of ammo for the same money.

Down the road he could hit the pawn shop and get an old $250 pump 12ga for what a couple of months of shooting 40cal would have cost him.

Down the road he could hit the pawn shop and get an old $250 pump 12ga for what a couple of months of shooting 40cal would have cost him.

Free Range Humans  Wrote:

Down the road he could hit the pawn shop and get an old $250 pump 12ga for what a couple of months of shooting 40cal would have cost him.

I like the shotgun shell adapter for the flare gun that somebody posted. Do you think i'd need a stock for that?

Free Range Humans  Wrote:

Down the road he could hit the pawn shop and get an old $250 pump 12ga for what a couple of months of shooting 40cal would have cost him.

I like the shotgun shell adapter for the flare gun that somebody posted. Do you think i'd need a stock for that?

Even though the 12G is more expensive to shoot, it seems to me to make far greater economic sense as well.... This is of course the REASON most of our fore bearers had at least one in their arsenal. Times where even tougher in days past and you had to be sharp to make it... A multi purpose gun for the same price as a specialized one seems pretty sharp to me.

Stormson  Wrote:

Even though the 12G is more expensive to shoot, it seems to me to make far greater economic sense as well.... This is of course the REASON most of our fore bearers had at least one in their arsenal. Times where even tougher in days past and you had to be sharp to make it... A multi purpose gun for the same price as a specialized one seems pretty sharp to me.

A shotgun doesnt take practice.



I'm going to continue seeking out informed opinions on my 22 theory, but this is definitely worth thinking about.

Free Range Humans  Wrote:

Down the road he could hit the pawn shop and get an old $250 pump 12ga for what a couple of months of shooting 40cal would have cost him.

I like the shotgun shell adapter for the flare gun that somebody posted. Do you think i'd need a stock for that?