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The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
LoP Guest
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09-10-2013 06:19 PM

 



Post: #46
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
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LoP Guest
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09-10-2013 06:28 PM

 



Post: #47
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2013 06:19 PM)
http://ca.isohunt.com/download/417839173...cy.torrent

And here's another . http://archive.org/stream/CaesarsMessiah...s_djvu.txt

But people won't believe facts...they want myth dammit.
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Diana Highnight
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09-10-2013 06:29 PM

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Post: #48
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2013 06:28 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2013 06:19 PM)
http://ca.isohunt.com/download/417839173...cy.torrent

And here's another . http://archive.org/stream/CaesarsMessiah...s_djvu.txt

But people won't believe facts...they want myth dammit.

myths are more fun....
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Gracie
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09-10-2013 06:31 PM

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Post: #49
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
Another great thread, Absurdious. up
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Ahriman nli
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09-10-2013 07:20 PM

 



Post: #50
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
Guitar Doctor  Wrote: (09-10-2013 02:27 PM)
Ahriman nli  Wrote: (09-10-2013 09:08 AM)
It was through christian willingness to fight on behalf of Constantine that we have Jesus now instead of Sol Inviticus or Mithra or whatever name the 'winner' would have gave him.

Now we can trace the origins to the book of Mark. Luke and Matthew are both rewrites and additions to Mark. So there are really only two gospels. The synoptic and then John. Which reads like nothing else. It actually 'explains' much of the 'allegory' of the synoptics if you take that plunge into straight hermetics.

But obviously the Romans literalized the whole teaching. Clouded it right up.

yeah3
Don't forget "Q" source. Theologians knew some of the four gospels came from an unknown source they called "Q". It had been destroyed in the RC church book burnings along with the Nag Hammadi and Dead sea scrolls as these books told alternative stories and were contradictory to the RC's goal.

I remember discussion this with a top Theologian some 30 years ago. They knew stuff they were not suppose to tell the laity unless they asked. I was particularly interesting in the manipulations, I never realized the right questions to ask, he was hinting but I was too young to understand. They keep as many secrets as masons.

The other accounts portray Jesus as a man, not the son of God. This was not acceptable to the RC church as a vehicle for control over the masses.

Imagine the furor over that as people in the churches are told anybody could do manipulations, not just those who choose to believe in God. They didn't want the people doing the manipulations, so they told them God did it and they were only to ask God to do them otherwise it was Witchcraft. Hence why the Churches of today do not perform miracles left, right and center. And also why the burned and hunted witches and psychics [and they still do]

Underneath the Vatican is the biggest repository of Occult books known. Don't doubt there is a group within the Vatican who reads and uses these practices for personal Gain.

Jesus taught Witchcraft and the world was a false matrix created by an Evil entity, imagine that going mainstream. No wonder the RC church burned all those books.

In the account of Judas he told the followers the God they followed in the Hebrew temples was the demiurge. Only Judas could accept it straight away in the account, the rest were mind controlled by indoctrination and found it difficult to accept.[this was set after the resurrection as he showed them anyone could make a body of light and place their consciousness inside it and continue existence] That was never going to make it to the acceptable list of books in the bible.

For people who say "everyone is equal in the eyes of the Lord" they don't seem to treat women equally in the RC church. In fact they have a massive system of ranking to separate the laity from the priesthood.

Excellent post GD. Cheer

Yep. I forgot about Q. The sayings of the Essene teacher of righteousness. The gospel of Thomas is along those lines. No wonder why that didn't get cannonized either. Dosen't fit control. chuckle
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Ahriman nli
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09-10-2013 07:21 PM

 



Post: #51
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
Howdy  Wrote: (09-10-2013 04:29 PM)
Ahriman nli  Wrote: (09-10-2013 09:08 AM)
It was through christian willingness to fight on behalf of Constantine that we have Jesus now instead of Sol Inviticus or Mithra or whatever name the 'winner' would have gave him.

Now we can trace the origins to the book of Mark. Luke and Matthew are both rewrites and additions to Mark. So there are really only two gospels. The synoptic and then John. Which reads like nothing else. It actually 'explains' much of the 'allegory' of the synoptics if you take that plunge into straight hermetics.

But obviously the Romans literalized the whole teaching. Clouded it right up.

yeah3

It is interesting that you just float over John, perhaps the most important of all of the gospels. Copies of his gospel have been found that can be dated to the actual time of Christ. In it, he clearly states that he was there, with Christ, one of the original Apostles.

What's more, it IS historical fact, by way of ROMAN writings that Jesus did exist and was crucified. It is also quite clear that the early Christians were hunted down and killed for their beliefs.

Yet, what is dismissed most often is that, here was a group of people, completely shattered and lost, literally hiding in a room in Jerusalem right after their leader, Jesus was killed, afraid that the Romans were going to slaughter them one after another. They didn't know what to do or where to go.

Suddenly, however, they are leaving that room, courageous, unafraid, spreading the Word of God all over the middle east, publically acknowledging that they might die for doing it, yet fear it not. They even march straight into Rome to deliver the message, directly into the hands of those who would capture and kill them.

That is quite a change in attitude in just a few days, is it not?

What possibly could have lit such a fire in these men and women, transforming them, erasing the fear of death from their hearts?

Christ's Resurrection.

He showed up again, performing miracles and walking through walls and told them, straight out, that they would live with Him forever after this life.

And that is why Christianity lives today.

If Christ had simply died or, as some suggest, pretended to die, Christianity would have whimpered away into the nothingness of ancient history. Those men in hiding in the room would never have gone out into the world to spread the message without fear of death if Christ had not returned to them from actual death, transformed in his appearance.

I didn't float over John. It's a hermetic masterpiece. Much more there than meets the eye at first glance.


yeah3
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HardTruth
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09-10-2013 07:26 PM

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Post: #52
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2013 06:09 AM)
masonic tripe. Jesus is an historic fact that even wikipedia has had to admit.

http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_history.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus



The Evidence for the Existence of Jesus
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoMerykoCY[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoMerykoCY

facepalm

Wiki is now the source for all that is Holy?

Surely you jest!!

.

If it seeketh, expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!

Candle Galaxy
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LoP Guest
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09-11-2013 05:44 PM

 



Post: #53
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
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Full Circle
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09-11-2013 06:10 PM

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Post: #54
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
Howdy  Wrote: (09-10-2013 04:29 PM)
Ahriman nli  Wrote: (09-10-2013 09:08 AM)
It was through christian willingness to fight on behalf of Constantine that we have Jesus now instead of Sol Inviticus or Mithra or whatever name the 'winner' would have gave him.

Now we can trace the origins to the book of Mark. Luke and Matthew are both rewrites and additions to Mark. So there are really only two gospels. The synoptic and then John. Which reads like nothing else. It actually 'explains' much of the 'allegory' of the synoptics if you take that plunge into straight hermetics.

But obviously the Romans literalized the whole teaching. Clouded it right up.

yeah3

It is interesting that you just float over John, perhaps the most important of all of the gospels. Copies of his gospel have been found that can be dated to the actual time of Christ. In it, he clearly states that he was there, with Christ, one of the original Apostles.

What's more, it IS historical fact, by way of ROMAN writings that Jesus did exist and was crucified. It is also quite clear that the early Christians were hunted down and killed for their beliefs.

Yet, what is dismissed most often is that, here was a group of people, completely shattered and lost, literally hiding in a room in Jerusalem right after their leader, Jesus was killed, afraid that the Romans were going to slaughter them one after another. They didn't know what to do or where to go.

Suddenly, however, they are leaving that room, courageous, unafraid, spreading the Word of God all over the middle east, publically acknowledging that they might die for doing it, yet fear it not. They even march straight into Rome to deliver the message, directly into the hands of those who would capture and kill them.

That is quite a change in attitude in just a few days, is it not?

What possibly could have lit such a fire in these men and women, transforming them, erasing the fear of death from their hearts?

Christ's Resurrection.

He showed up again, performing miracles and walking through walls and told them, straight out, that they would live with Him forever after this life.

And that is why Christianity lives today.

If Christ had simply died or, as some suggest, pretended to die, Christianity would have whimpered away into the nothingness of ancient history. Those men in hiding in the room would never have gone out into the world to spread the message without fear of death if Christ had not returned to them from actual death, transformed in his appearance.

Actually, it's been said by many that the Gospel of John was written in rebuttal to the Gospel of Thomas.

Thus, Thomas pulls from the creation myth the idea that
all humans have innate access to knowledge of the divine.
John, on the other hand, counters this
idea by arguing that the divine light is uniquely present in the
logos
ñ that the primordial human of
light is in fact the
logos
ñ and that only through the incarnation of the
logos
in Jesus do humans
have access to the primordial light.
(Pagels 1999:480-481.)

http://alexnvv.axspace.com/documents/Joh...perNvV.pdf

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LoP Guest
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09-11-2013 06:49 PM

 



Post: #55
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
Full Circle  Wrote: (09-11-2013 06:10 PM)
Actually, it's been said by many that the Gospel of John was written in rebuttal to the Gospel of Thomas.

Thus, Thomas pulls from the creation myth the idea that
all humans have innate access to knowledge of the divine.
John, on the other hand, counters this
idea by arguing that the divine light is uniquely present in the
logos
ñ that the primordial human of
light is in fact the
logos
ñ and that only through the incarnation of the
logos
in Jesus do humans
have access to the primordial light.
(Pagels 1999:480-481.)

http://alexnvv.axspace.com/documents/Joh...perNvV.pdf
What John forgets is the God the Son is a universal creative artifact and nothing is made without it.

Jesus: "What you do unto the least of these people, you do unto me."

The Logos is the real corner stone of every soul. In, at and is our very center of being.
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JT
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09-11-2013 06:49 PM

 



Post: #56
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
Extra-biblical references and texts that support the existence of Christ.

"Let's begin our inquiry with a passage that historian Edwin Yamauchi calls "probably the most important reference to Jesus outside the New Testament."{4} Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:

Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . .{5}"

"Pliny was the Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. In one of his letters, dated around A.D. 112, he asks Trajan's advice about the appropriate way to conduct legal proceedings against those accused of being Christians."

Perhaps the most remarkable reference to Jesus outside the Bible can be found in the writings of Josephus, a first century Jewish historian. On two occasions, in his Jewish Antiquities, he mentions Jesus. The second, less revealing, reference describes the condemnation of one "James" by the Jewish Sanhedrin. This James, says Josephus, was "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ."

Evidence from the Babylonian Talmud

Evidence from Lucian

Lucian of Samosata was a second century Greek satirist. In one of his works, he wrote of the early Christians as follows:

The Christians . . . worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . [It] was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/...ources.htm

"Testimony from the Romans

Cornelius Tacitus (ca. 56-120) was a Roman senator, consul and governor of the Roman province of Anatolia (covering most of modern-day Turkey) as well as one of ancient Rome's greatest historians. Late in his life he wrote a 16-volume history of the Roman emperors, the Annals.

No friend to either Nero or Christians, Tacitus writes that Nero blamed "a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace." He goes on to explain that "Christus [Christ], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty [crucifixion] during the reign of Tiberius at the hand of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome ..." ( Annals, 15:44, quoted by Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ, 1998, p. 82)."

http://www.ucg.org/booklet/jesus-christ-...urces-con/

III.Ancient Secular Historians

F.Suetonius

G. Galen

H.Celsus
http://www.doxa.ws/Jesus_pages/HistJesus7.html

I agree with post #4 - Saul of Tarsus (Paul) was a Roman agent that adulterated the message, discredited the rebellion, and codified the movement into an institution, in direct support of Roman interests.

There has been much ruin brought onto the message that Yeshua, Christos, whatever name the historical person who caused a rebellion and a new message in Rome, was bringing.
Revisionism will not change the core message, but certainly does it harm.
There is more historical evidence of the existence, than there is supporting the thesis that it was an elaborate Flavian invention.

The message of do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love God, actively condemn hypocrites, speak out against injustice and oppression, resist worldly temptations and tyrannies over your soul, help the needy; this message is revolutionary.
What has been done to it for selfish ends and the control over the minds of the weak does not warrant attack, derision, and abolition. The religious institutions and authorities that have co-opted the message and turned it into an enterprise of religiosity, a mockery of spirituality and truth, should be the target of blame.
To bring discredit on the message serves the ptb, their agenda, their goals and ends.
The message has the power to change hearts and minds, and it provides a means of resisting the ptb as well as living a moral and ethical life based on principles.
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LoP Guest
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09-11-2013 06:52 PM

 



Post: #57
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
Also found this is response to John: Romans 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
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LoP Guest
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09-11-2013 07:08 PM

 



Post: #58
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
Howdy  Wrote: (09-10-2013 05:45 PM)
Diana Highnight  Wrote: (09-10-2013 05:13 PM)
it means they sold you a bill of goods promising riches in the next life if you take their f$cking in this one...a lie...a slave's religion...a tool of an empire that dreamt big...

but, still, a morsel of spiritual truth...enough to breed acceptance...not enough to spread revolution...

I hear this argument often so, I have to ask, where do you find slavery in Christianity?

Are parents literal slaves to their children when they work from a place of love?

Are we slaves to our parents when we show them love and respect?

Are we slaves to our communities when we contribute a portion of our income to build schools and roads and water mains?

Christ asked us to do only two things: (1) Love the Creator with all your heart and mind. (Your ultimate Father.) (2) Treat other people as you would like to be treated yourself.

That is the ENTIRE message. EVERYTHING is contained within those two commandments; charity, peace, respect, love, community, and on and on.

Still, some people look at these two commandments and resent the first one. Why, they ask, do I have to bend my knee to God? If He is so great, why does He need me to go around telling Him how great He is? He must be some wacko narcissist.

Actually, God talks about this in the Bible. He says that He doesn't need our praise at all. He simply knows that whenever we forget to pray each day, our minds turn from the spiritual and begin to focus on worldly things. By not praying, we humans begin to morally decay at an alarming rate. (Look out the window or turn on the news right now and tell me this fact is wrong.)

As SOON as we forget to maintain either of these two commandments, the world immediately gets a little shittier.

Wherein, then, do you see slavery in these two commandments?

I really would like to know.

From your perspective maybe.

I dont pray everyday and I am involved in worldly dealings daily yet my morals are stronger than when I was dragged to church every Sunday and asked to be an altar boy which now just bugs me out since I really had no choice.

BTW most slaves dont realize their slaves until they get a taste of true freedom. So it doesnt even need to be mentioned and why would they mention it if they did have slaves or wanted to make slaves of the Roman people.
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lone
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09-11-2013 07:08 PM

 



Post: #59
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
absurdious  Wrote: (09-10-2013 05:22 AM)
Quote:Dr. Rod Blackhirst, Lecturer in Religious Studies at La Trobe University, Australia explains how he independently came to the conclusion that the Flavian Caesars created Christianity. This is an excerpt from the complete Blackhirst interview done for the Caesar's Messiah documentary. It is available as a Bonus Scene on the Blu-ray dvd of "Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus" produced by Fritz Heede, Nijole Sparkis and Joe Atwill. Find out more at caesarsmessiahdoc.com




,,,another deluded ' scholar ' ...who does not understand the difference between Evils Mimick and the Truth.

Go,
let those souls who believe him perish.
and he as well.

anyway they think they Like what they hear from him.

im so tired.

i tell you -
only souls, who WANT to be against Him listen to this deluded scholars 'message' .

So i ve said.
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LoP Guest
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09-11-2013 07:20 PM

 



Post: #60
The Flavian Thesis: Origins of Christianity
lone  Wrote: (09-11-2013 07:08 PM)
i tell you -
only souls, who WANT to be against Him listen to this deluded scholars 'message' .

So i ve said.

Good grief!

No soul perishes because they are exploring an alternative hypothesis.

It's called the learning process.

Also, Grace is not something one chooses, is it?

I thought that Grace was given, not earned, not of human works.
Self-righteousness, yes, but that is something completely different.

All of the Apostles denied Christ and all fell asleep, according to you,
they desired to abandon him.
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