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**dolphin** · (This post was last modified: 08-20-2012 10:57 PM by dolphin.)

LoP Guest Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
dolphin Wrote:
I have never read the bible and I am a Hermetist; not a Christian.

I am partial to the 10 Commandments and most especially to the Golden Rule.

As far as I know there has only ever been one Christian throughout history. The rest are all wannabees.
"As far as I know there has only ever been one Christian throughout history. The rest are all wannabees."
WELL... you almost get it.
THAT is why it is salvation BY FAITH.
Nobody is good enough to be a Christian. (Though admittedly many THINK they are.)
Salvation by faith in the person of Jesus Christ sets Christianity apart from all the other religions.
All other religions... including FAUX CHRISTIANITY... REQUIRE doing stuff to obtain salvation or the equivalent there of.

No, you're just repeating the lie that the false apostle Paul sowed into the minds of many Christians: that salvation is by faith alone. James 2:14-26 tells a whole different story:

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:14-26 (KJV)

Abraham was justified because he ACTED in righteousness.

I got a different meaning out of that than you did.

That passage makes me think of the "Emperor Who Had No Cloths"

He had Faith that he was wearing the clothes, but it did him no good because he was really naked. You can't just imagine (have faith) your wearing clothes by pretending to put some on. You actually have to get dressed and that requires the effort of actually getting something real that you can touch, see, and feel. You can't trust the charlatan (false prophet) to tell you they are there.

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled (ie. Have Faith); notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

The moral being...

God and Faith only helps those who help themselves and others by procuring and providing the necessities of the physical world.

Even so faith, if it hath not (physical) works, is dead

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 110758 08-20-2012 11:01 PM

dolphin Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:
"As far as I know there has only ever been one Christian throughout history. The rest are all wannabees."
WELL... you almost get it.
THAT is why it is salvation BY FAITH.
Nobody is good enough to be a Christian. (Though admittedly many THINK they are.)
Salvation by faith in the person of Jesus Christ sets Christianity apart from all the other religions.
All other religions... including FAUX CHRISTIANITY... REQUIRE doing stuff to obtain salvation or the equivalent there of.

No, you're just repeating the lie that the false apostle Paul sowed into the minds of many Christians: that salvation is by faith alone. James 2:14-26 tells a whole different story:

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:14-26 (KJV)

Abraham was justified because he ACTED in righteousness.

I got a different meaning out of that than you did.

That passage makes me think of the "Emperor Who Had No Cloths"

He had Faith that he was wearing the clothes, but it did him no good because he was really naked. You can't just imagine (have faith) your wearing clothes by pretending to put some on. You actually have to get dressed and that requires the effort of actually getting something real that you can touch, see, and feel. You can't trust the charlatan (false prophet) to tell you they are there.

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled (ie. Have Faith); notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

The moral being...

God and Faith only helps those who help themselves and others by procuring and providing the necessities of the physical world.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead

If a brother or sister is naked, it doesn't do any good to say "go, be warm and filled" (if you haven't actually DONE anything to clothe them or fill their belly). Same as faith without works....you can say all day long that you have faith but if you don't show it by your works, your faith (and claiming that you have faith) means little. That's what the passage is referring to. And again, Abraham (to use just ONE example) was justified because he ACTED in righteousness.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 110758 08-20-2012 11:08 PM

Dolphin,

I don't know why you think you have a different meaning from that passage than I have. You essentially proved my point.

Without actually DOING something, whether in the case of the Emperor with no clothes or the passage from the book of James, faith (or saying something is so) means nothing. You need to follow that up with acting on it. Which is where works come in. An example of this is someone who claims to be a Christian because they believe in Christ, yet don't do anything to turn away from living a lifestyle that Christ would find objectionable (sinful). It's a constant effort, which is why Christ said that those who endure until the end will be saved. He also said that those who say "Lord, Lord" will be thrust away because they WORK iniquity. He said by their fruits shall they be known.

**dolphin** · (This post was last modified: 08-20-2012 11:30 PM by dolphin.)

LoP Guest Wrote:

If a brother or sister is naked, it doesn't do any good to say "go, be warm and filled" (if you haven't actually DONE anything to clothe them or fill their belly). Same as faith without works....you can say all day long that you have faith but if you don't show it by your works, your faith (and claiming that you have faith) means little. That's what the passage is referring to. And again, Abraham (to use just ONE example) was justified because he ACTED in righteousness.

That Abraham story never set right with me. I don't put much stock in it. Sounds more like a parable to me. Its either that, or the man was suffering from schizophrenia and damn near murdered his own kid.

Of course delusions are real to those who are having them. Who's to say. Even if a delusion is a valid form of reality it is only meant for the one having it. Sharing your personal delusions and promoting them as objective reality with other people is a no go in my book and it qualifies as a con job if others try to lay it second hand on people and sell it as reality.

LoP Guest Wrote:

Dolphin,

I don't know why you think you have a different meaning from that passage than I have. You essentially proved my point.

Without actually DOING something, whether in the case of the Emperor with no clothes or the passage from the book of James, faith (or saying something is so) means nothing. You need to follow that up with acting on it. Which is where works come in. An example of this is someone who claims to be a Christian because they believe in Christ, yet don't do anything to turn away from living a lifestyle that Christ would find objectionable (sinful). It's a constant effort, which is why Christ said that those who endure until the end will be saved. He also said that those who say "Lord, Lord" will be thrust away because they WORK iniquity. He said by their fruits shall they be known.

I'll go along with that.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 110758 08-20-2012 11:35 PM

dolphin Wrote:

That Abraham story never set right with me. I don't put much stock in it. Sounds more like a parable to me. Its either that, or the man was suffering from schizophrenia and damn near murdered his own kid.

Of course delusions are real to those who are having them. Who's to say. Even if a delusion is a valid form of reality it is only meant for the one having it. Sharing your personal delusions and promoting them as objective reality with other people is a no go in my book.

You're not even open to the possibility that the story of Abraham happened as was written? It's either a parable, or he was a schizo? What sort of search for truth is that? "I'll look everywhere, EXCEPT there."

"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make one's mind up about nothing - to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts."
- John Keats

"The greatest derangement of the human mind is to believe because one wishes it to be so."
- Louis Pasteur
(which also includes NOT believing because one wishes it NOT to be so)

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 110758 08-20-2012 11:43 PM

By the way, I think we've derailed this thread enough. If you want to continue we should start a new thread. We're very much off topic.

**dolphin** · (This post was last modified: 08-21-2012 12:36 AM by dolphin.)

LoP Guest Wrote:

dolphin Wrote:
That Abraham story never set right with me. I don't put much stock in it. Sounds more like a parable to me. Its either that, or the man was suffering from schizophrenia and damn near murdered his own kid.

Of course delusions are real to those who are having them. Who's to say. Even if a delusion is a valid form of reality it is only meant for the one having it. Sharing your personal delusions and promoting them as objective reality with other people is a no go in my book.

You're not even open to the possibility that the story of Abraham happened as was written? It's either a parable, or he was a schizo? What sort of search for truth is that? "I'll look everywhere, EXCEPT there."

"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make one's mind up about nothing - to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts."
- John Keats

"The greatest derangement of the human mind is to believe because one wishes it to be so."
- Louis Pasteur
(which also includes NOT believing because one wishes it NOT to be so)

There is nothing necessarily wrong with being a Schizo at all.

Modern day media disinformation gives it a bad wrap because it sensationalizes the criminal behaviors of those afflicted by it.

It complete ignores the other realm of schizo experienced by people who regard it as a blessing.

Consider the newly released television show called "Perception" about the Professor who helps the police solve the crimes.

His auditory hallucinations are helpful entities. He had Joan of Arc helping him in a recent episode.

People with Schizo can have Angels too you know. Not just demons.

Quote:Of course delusions are real to those who are having them. Who's to say. Even if a delusion is a valid form of reality it is only meant for the one having it. Sharing your personal delusions and promoting them as objective reality with other people is a no go in my book and it qualifies as a con job if others try to lay it second hand on people and sell it as objective reality to profit off of a great man's delsusions.

Again delusions are real to those who have them. What better way for the Proverbial God to speak to us without interfering in the perfect universe with its mathmatical purity that is creation?

By the way one of least known modern day definitions of schizophrenia entails what psychiatrists refer to as "Unexplained Higher Brain Functions".

The general public is woefully dumbed down on the subject.

**Leopardsands** · **Leopardsands** Goth Pug User ID: 76478 08-24-2012 08:08 PM **Posts: 13,699**

**Karu**

Leopardsands Wrote:

**Karu**

**dolphin**

"We (the Malthusian Oligarchs) must proceed with caution and guard every move made, for the lower order of people are showing signs of restless commotion. Prudence will therefore show a policy of apparently yielding to the popular will until our plans are so far consummated that we can declare our designs without fear of any organized resistance.

The Farms, Media Outlets, and Business sectors in the United States should be stringently regulated to discourage success, and we must take immediate steps to take them over, or bankrupt them.

At the coming political conventions our men must attend and direct its movement to destroy the influence and popularity of Ron Paul, or else there will be set on foot such antagonism to our designs as may require force to overcome. This at the present time would be premature. We are not yet ready for such a crisis. Capital must protect itself in every possible manner through combination (conspiracy) and legislation.

The courts must be called to our aid, debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.

When through the process of the law, the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of the government applied to a central power of imperial wealth under the control of the leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders.

History repeats itself in regular cycles. This truth is well known among our principal men who are engaged in forming an imperialism of the world. While they are doing this, the people must be kept in a state of political antagonism.

The questions of Liberalism must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of Conservatism must be forced to view through the Republican Party.

By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expand their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete action, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished."

Oligarch Banksters like the Warburgs & Rothschilds started WW2 for profit and to further their agenda for world government as envisioned by Cecil John Rhodes.

They took the lead and Oligarchs and Billionairs all over the world jumped on the band wagon. Many of them were founding partners in the Bank of International Settlements.

Understand what has gone on and is going on, or you cannot make an informed judgent about anything regarding geopolitics.

It is these same type of people with the same ideas and vision up to the same old no good using a rewrite of the same script substituting the "World War" with "The Global War on Terror".

Above is my slightly edited version of the Bankers Manifesto which explains it best. See the link for the unedited version.
http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=7124

**Pope Frank**

Certain corporations are favored because it's the government that owns them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pRPBKJQnyU