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The cunning intelligence of the adversary
The Evil AC
I am not a number!!!
User ID: 666
04-11-2012 04:23 AM

 



Post: #16
devil RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
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Ray-Ray Debarge
lop guest
User ID: 82249
04-11-2012 04:28 AM

 



Post: #17
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
goldenfleeced  Wrote: (04-11-2012 04:18 AM)
Ozymandias  Wrote: (04-11-2012 04:10 AM)
Nolo  Wrote: (04-11-2012 04:05 AM)
I would start with the concept of infinity and how that would apply to reincarnation...not in any religious or supernatural terms, but using what we know of logic and mathematics, the nature of time both linear and fractal, and human nature as we experience it.

If there has been an endless progression of reincarnations, regressing infinitely past the point we presently occupy, and potentially infinitely into the future; and if we could somehow 'visit' our distant ancestor and our equally distant progeny; we should see a difference in the human condition; IF reincarnation is a mechanism to 'improve'.

I doubt if we would see it.
And the reason is, given how 'close' the claim is that we are preparing to 'ascend', the observable data does not fit the parameter of advancement. We are no more empathic or noble or honorable or kind, as a race, than we were as far back in our recorded history reports. Maybe we've even gotten worse.
Given an infinite time so far, up to this point, it doesn't seem likely that any more infinite time (which is an absurdity in and of itself, like comparing the 'sizes' of the infinite sets of all numbers with that of the infinity of the set of even numbers...it makes no difference) added to it, would make any difference.

A point on an infinite line, positionally, is equivalent to any and all positions points upon that line. There is no 'middle' to measure from, or 'ends' either, so all points would be equal.
That means whatever conditions that you find at any arbitrary measuring point will be repeated at all measuring points.
Infinite means no conclusion, no high point beyond which there is no low point, because if it had been achievable, then it would have developed or happened by random chance an extremely long time ago, and we would not be having this discussion.

Because we have only a eye-blink of a sampling of an infinite time-line, some say a history of a few thousand years, some claim hundreds of thousands of years; and given the known size and age of the universe; and the possibility of other parallel universes; why are we stuck here instead of ascended by now?

That can only be IF reincarnation is an energy conservation cycle like the precipitation cycle in nature.

What we were eons of billions of cycles ago, is what we are now, and what we will be in all the tomorrows afterwords.

That is a cosmos that is both eternal and Creator-less. Or, it is its own grandpa, so to speak.
No Purpose...just a cosmos that goes creaking along forever...little infestations of sentience rising and falling endlessly...the same yesterday, today, and forever.



To me then, the idea of reincarnation is not only meaningless, but would have no 'reason' to have come about, much less for it to have arisen or been incorporated or whatever explanation there may have been for it to exist. But even it were a blind mechanism within the cosmos that circulates sentient material, it's no 'usable' tool for us... other than the meaningless rationalization on the part of sentience to justify its awareness.


Now, if you want to consider a finite cosmos...that had some sort of beginning; then that Beginning would have a 'rationale' or logical reason for its existence, both it and its elements, reincarnation among them.

That begs the question of something coming into being...something from nothing...and for that, the metaphysical has to be taken into account.
And if something like the universe has a beginning, then it's not outside the bounds of speculation to consider it might having an end. Perhaps in repeating cycles, perhaps a one-time shot.

And if the metaphysical has to be used for an explanation for creation, then that brings the question of reincarnation as just one of many competing cosmologies; and not as previously stated, an indisputable 'fact'.

I bet you're a blast at parties.

Actually... it could be worse. And if, 'God' forbid, one were stranded on a desert island... well, Tom Hanks never got that out of a volleyball, I'm sure.

:)

Maybe he could have, but not without deflating it. chuckle
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The Martini Maven
shaken with a twist
User ID: 88886
04-11-2012 04:30 AM

Posts: 30,956



Post: #18
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
i like hot twisted pretzels with mustard Cheer



as far as faith goes the blood of Christ forgives

we are only human and should try to be decent

not be shitheads and expect to be forgiven just because

Wink

the path on this plane is a test
and everything happens for a reason
though injustices are hurtful

the evil in charge manifest this hateful climate we are experiencing right now

patience is faith

Hugs

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nolomolistari
pneumanaut
User ID: 82245
04-11-2012 04:37 AM

Posts: 2,880



Post: #19
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
Well, there are some that dedicate themselves to parties and getting numb...and those that try to expand, even while at parties.

Quote:Reincarnation is a Spiritual Law!
Nothing stands in it's way because, it's just the way it is!


I figured it was a good starting point because so much of the OP's rationale hinged upon this major point.


Before taking on the much more interesting:


Quote:the grand deception that the adversary has





But if you need no cosmology that requires reason, critical thinking, or logic...then help yourself to feel-good jingoism.

MVNDVS VVLT DECIPI
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goldenfleeced
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User ID: 42706
04-11-2012 04:37 AM

Posts: 9,582



Post: #20
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
The Lucky AC  Wrote: (04-11-2012 01:43 AM)
Close but no cigar.

Reincarnation means you did not break free and they tricked you into the box again and you failed.

We are eternal, there is no need to come back to this hollow place, seek you true nature and follow that.

There is no doubt that it is written that you must be born again. I believe that this 'reincarnation' of ourselves, which is born of 'water and spirit' (Qabalistically, these represent Wisdom), is the eternal 'self' which represents the 'twice-born' or 'sons' of 'God,' as opposed to the unregenerated sons of Man, and which 'twice born' are the true heirs to the Father's eternal kingdom.

Whether or not there is a necessity to be 'reborn' physically in order to accomplish this, I cannot say... all I know is that unless one is re-born, one cannot inherit the kingdom. Clean clothes are needed for the wedding... they are provided at no cost, but you have to come and get them. It will be a limited time offer, at some point... you know, the show must go on...


:)

...what is this which is written in the Tanakh, `'The very rock which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone’?

The Light shineth in Darkness, and the Darkness comprehendeth it not...

The 'door' to my new house... http://paradisejournal.freeforums.net/
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Dr. Woo

User ID: 53145
04-11-2012 05:12 AM

Posts: 6,554



Post: #21
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
River of Life  Wrote: (04-11-2012 01:39 AM)
We could already be living in it
I meant to say, we should already be living in it

Only you can help bring it about

The question is

How long are you going to wait?

The mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work unless it's open - Frank Zappa
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nolomolistari
pneumanaut
User ID: 82245
04-11-2012 05:21 AM

Posts: 2,880



Post: #22
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
Whata ya know...try and keep religion OUT of the discussion, keep away from Biblethumpin quotes...and the crowd says you're unfit for parties.

Hummmm...I recall a Quote about the fickleness of the crowds...something like if you're too serious they demand you to lighten up; and when you lighten up, they accuse you of being frivolous.

Here's a Christian response to a heathen notion, without a whisper of religion...and what do you know...without the overtly Christian 'message' to bash; they have nothing to say...no reasoned critique...just mindless sheep repetition of the same old tired newageweenie pseudo revelation.

Pot
Kettle
Black
...on your Christian 'mindless sheep' flaming.

MVNDVS VVLT DECIPI
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Nyhee
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User ID: 89080
04-11-2012 05:36 AM

Posts: 3,607



Post: #23
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
Reincarnation is a Spiritual Law!


Which form?

The Hindu form?

The Original Buddha form?

The many Buddhist monastery forms?

The Zen form?

The Hippie/Beatles form?

The early Luciferian Trust form?

The pre-2000 form?

The post-2000 form that involves being a God?

The current form that involves being a communal God?

The form that will exist in a few years, if nothing changes, where we are all one with Oprah Winfrey?

Yes, I am frightened of that one...
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Nyhee
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User ID: 89080
04-11-2012 05:44 AM

Posts: 3,607



Post: #24
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
Nolo  Wrote: (04-11-2012 05:21 AM)
Whata ya know...try and keep religion OUT of the discussion, keep away from Biblethumpin quotes...and the crowd says you're unfit for parties.

Hummmm...I recall a Quote about the fickleness of the crowds...something like if you're too serious they demand you to lighten up; and when you lighten up, they accuse you of being frivolous.

Here's a Christian response to a heathen notion, without a whisper of religion...and what do you know...without the overtly Christian 'message' to bash; they have nothing to say...no reasoned critique...just mindless sheep repetition of the same old tired newageweenie pseudo revelation.

Pot
Kettle
Black
...on your Christian 'mindless sheep' flaming.

They don't often like smart Christians on this forum.

Heartflowers
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nolomolistari
pneumanaut
User ID: 82245
04-11-2012 05:49 AM

Posts: 2,880



Post: #25
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
Those that advocate reincarnation are just dodging an ultimate Justice.

Part of Life is knowing that you're tested. But what happens with failure?

Well, if it never really counts against you, who needs graduation if you can perpetually stay in school?

The results of failure out in the wild is death...interview any unhealthy animal...how is it any different with humans and the spiritual realm?

MVNDVS VVLT DECIPI
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Nyhee
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User ID: 89080
04-11-2012 05:55 AM

Posts: 3,607



Post: #26
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
I know there's a price we pay for the evil we do. And that
God has allowed that to remain with us as we move up, unless we ask him to fight our darkness that resides within us.

I know that there is no perpetually burning souls in hell, Jesus said that those who suffer that second death, their souls and bodies are utterly destroyed.

I imagine only a very few will ever suffer that fate, and only out of mercy, because anyone that gets erased out of reality will be suffering so badly in their wickedness that there is no other answer for them.
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nolomolistari
pneumanaut
User ID: 82245
04-11-2012 06:07 AM

Posts: 2,880



Post: #27
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
Since we're going to bandy religion around anyway, I might as well throw my hat in the ring and say that it seems that everyone gets the desire of their heart, because that heart's desire grows a person into what they become.

You truly do earn your own reward, the work of your hands, the desire of your heart, and what you serve.


The thing about your desires taking you to a place where you have no power to perform or create what it is you've grown yourself into, expecting the environment to support it to just magically appear, is the ultimate tragedy, because you'll find you have betrayed yourself.

You are free to wish and plan and live as if the desires of the Deity have no relevancy...but by the same token, once you've gotten that, just how skilled are you at creating reality? One that will support you once the Creator you removed yourself from is no longer there to provide such things?

MVNDVS VVLT DECIPI
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2012 06:09 AM by nolomolistari.) Quote this message in a reply
FreedomStands
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User ID: 14247
04-11-2012 06:09 AM

Posts: 24,910



Post: #28
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
River of Life  Wrote: (04-11-2012 01:39 AM)
The cunning intelligence of the adversary

You don't have to be cunning if people are extremely stupid.

EXPLAINING GOD THROUGH REASON
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Easy-Rel...a-Nutshell
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Bug
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User ID: 63862
04-11-2012 08:21 PM

Posts: 383



Post: #29
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
Jptdknpa

FreedomStands  Wrote: (04-11-2012 06:09 AM)
River of Life  Wrote: (04-11-2012 01:39 AM)
The cunning intelligence of the adversary

You don't have to be cunning if people are extremely stupid.
This is a great thread, and THAT ^ was incredibly funny!! Rofl

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Tenderness and kindness are not signs of weakness and despair, but manifestations of strength and resolution." ~Khalil Gibran
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Dr. Woo

User ID: 53145
04-11-2012 11:05 PM

Posts: 6,554



Post: #30
RE: The cunning intelligence of the adversary
Nawayru  Wrote: (04-11-2012 05:36 AM)
Reincarnation is a Spiritual Law!


Which form?

The Hindu form?

The Original Buddha form?

The many Buddhist monastery forms?

The Zen form?

The Hippie/Beatles form?

The early Luciferian Trust form?

The pre-2000 form?

The post-2000 form that involves being a God?

The current form that involves being a communal God?

The form that will exist in a few years, if nothing changes, where we are all one with Oprah Winfrey?

Yes, I am frightened of that one...
I think the point is that reincarnation is fact whether you believe in it or not

The mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work unless it's open - Frank Zappa
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