Post: #1

I live in a tiny corner of the world so I only know about the peoples that live near here, but I see many connections to other cultures and countries.

Feel free to add what you might know about the origins of the tribal peoples you might know about and maybe we will see patterns ignored by orthodoxy who believe ancient people did not mix and travel across the ocean and seas.

I also find it interesting that the Syrians claim to be from Sirius.


Many years ago I had a book called the first two million years, it was a Large hardcover book and claimed to have all of the known roots and origins of all the peoples of the world.

Well it didn't and it was badly written and they had nothing in any sort of chronological order.
They had not consulted with many peoples and it was just a lot of old fashioned ideas with some fluff and it was being sold as fact.

I only really know about NZ and the Polynesian peoples who came here and more recently we have uncovered about other cultures living here before the polynesians came 850 years ago.

The Polynesians have been traced back the foot hills of Cambodia and were the Lapita pottery people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfdMVcn3wsg

We see they started to go into the sea around 3000 years ago. This it thought the be population pressures.

The Orthodox theory is that tribes of people would live in an area until the population grew too big them they would go expand their boarders until they encountered too much resistance or they found geographical boundaries and that would be the new size of their tribal lands.
Many people would flee large approaching tribes to escape death.

The unorthodox theory is that natural climate change or natural disasters caused these mass migrations or possible out breaks of killer diseases.

More likely combinations of the two are what caused the large mass migrations found in Asia.

The ancient ancestors of the Polynesians left from many points around Thailand, Cambodia and South East China.

They have been traced by Language across the pacific [many of the words used in the Philippines are the same as the words in the Maori language , wai for water for instance] and also by the pottery debris left behind and the Art as well.

We see that they went westward across the Pacific sailing into the wind so they would be blown back if they became lost.

They swept past NZ and did not discover it until 1250AD according the orthodox theories.

At that point we see seven waves of immigration.

Early European explorers and settlers of NZ tell the story of Seven great canoes but this is a misconception aided by their lack of understanding of the language.
The Maori had no written language until the Europeans arrived and started to write it down after their own fashion.

Oral traditions are often told as stories to make them easy to remember, so many of the stories were taken literally instead of figuratively by the early Europeans.

An until recently that was the history as we knew it. But anomalies started to be found and some of the guardians of the Maori tribal knowledge have come forth with the information they have been keeping for centuries.

Much of this was scoffed at by historians and scholars until very recently where indisputable evidence has arisen.

Archaeological excavations have revealed that people were living in NZ as far back as 2000 years ago.
The last wave of Maori immigration [ 650 years ago] contained the most organised and violent of all the previous tribes .
They did not want to live alongside the peoples already there they wanted control and ownership and they set about getting it.

They would kill all the men and incorporate the women and children into the tribe.
Like all conquerors they would take the best things from those they conquered and incorporate them into their culture.

We see the symbols of the Egyptians and possibly Greeks and Romans in their art and designs.
The Haka was originally performed on the bended knee and it was in tribute to Bes an Egyptian figure.[The modern Haka is a perversion pulling the piss]

We see the secrets of working green-stone [Jade] coming into their culture.
The Kumara [Sweet potato] becomes a staple food and is from South America originally.
The art and weaving designs also appear to be adapted from South America but with organic form instead of geometric form.

There are 27 excavations in NZ that are embargoed because they contain non Maori artefacts and with the land claims they worry if it was revealed that they were not the original inhabitants they might not get the deals[ this is just worry over nothing as they have a contract with the crown]

Stone circles in the same design as Stone henge have been found on the Tip of the North Island they are at least 2000 years old.

The questions we ask now are who were these peoples and how and why did they come to NZ in these times.
It is a damn long way away from anywhere.

Why did the Polynesians leave Asia?
Who were they escaping from or was it a natural disaster?

Hopefully by comparing tribal migrations around the world patterns previously discounted will be revealed.

Post: #2

The Australian Koori's, were careful about inter-breeding. Once the tribe had become too big, and cousins were in danger of falling for each other, the tribe would be split. A group would be sent away, to start their own tribe, and I guess to find another tribe to mate with. I wonder how much that had to do with the spread of people through out the world as well. The same concept would go back to biblical times.

Post: #3

ANCIENT TONGA AND THE LOST CITY OF MU'A

Recent findings by archaeologists have suggested that evidence exists of a greater population throughout the Pacific region that was more consistent with the estimates put forward by Cook and Durville and much larger than that recorded by the later European presence in Oceania. This Web site looks at one of the remainders of an earlier civilisation - Ancient Tonga and the Lost City of Mu'a.

In the traditional view of ancient Tonga, the islands were first settled about 3500 years ago as part of the movement of seafarers from the western islands of Indonesia to the Pacific Islands beyond New Guinea. With their movements determined by the discovery of the distinctive Lapita pottery, the Lapita people continued out into the western Pacific, beyond the already inhabited Solomon Islands and Vanuatu archipelago to the uninhabited islands of Fiji, Tonga and Samoa. Archaeologists speculate that the Lapita people existed for about 1,000 years and then suddenly the use of pottery died out and the technology was lost.

From 1500 B.C. to 500 B.C. an empire of pottery-making people spanned the western Pacific and it is these people that are considered to have made the megaliths of Tonga, including the building of the city of Mu'a and Tonga's great Trilithon. During this period, it is more likely that the Tongans never lost the ability to make long ocean journeys.

Indeed, evidence indicates that Tonga was the central naval base for a pan-Pacific empire that existed for thousands of years and had only fallen into decline a few hundred years before European contact.

The building of the ancient capital city of Mu'a must have begun many thousands of years ago when the islands were slightly lower in relation to ocean and the lagoon. In fact, Tonga had risen about a metre over the last few thousand years and thus constructions as the wharf at Mounu and the canals are now useless. The lowering of the water into the lagoon is quite possibly the reason for the abandonment of Mu'a.

The central area of Mu'a was surrounded by a huge canal, or moat. This gigantic canal is so large, it was thought to be a sunken road to early archaeologists who could not believe that giant canal fortifications were built, or needed, by the early Tongans. Furthermore, the massive rocks at the ancient port on the lagoon side of Mu'a are evidence of the docking of huge transoceanic vessels in ancient times. The fort of Mu'a was already an ancient ruin, unused by the Tongans, at the time of European colonization of the Pacific.

The emerging picture of ancient Tonga is one of an extremely advanced culture that built a sophisticated system of roads, canals, monumental pyramids, and other large stone remains. The entire island was probably a densely populated much as it is today. Roads left Mu'a in all directions, and the large double canoes and reed ships could even enter into the interior of the island by utilizing the canal. The glory of ancient Tonga has already been forgotten, but the monumental ruins of this ancient land continue to signal the present day with a hint of the former greatness when Tonga was the capital of Polynesia.

Archaeologists are unsure as to the exact reason for the abandonment of the Lost City of Mu'a. Evidence does suggest however that a rise in the land level rendered the wharf and the canal system inoperative. This is thought to be one possible reason why Mu'a was abandoned.


http://www.janeresture.com/tonga_mua/index.htm

Post: #4

The Scandinavians have a similar story about these vanir people who would run a breeding cult and exile the lessers.

They would have a Olympic games sort of thing and the winners would breed with the pure high priestesses on Boke's day the original Boxing day according to them.

One of those cool story bro's that might be true.

Post: #5

Polonesians settled parts of the west coast of the US and Mexico down through parts of South America. This has been found due to skull shapes and canoe designs etc from these areas. The Polonesians were exceptional sailors...

Post: #6

Spank The Monkey  Wrote:

Polonesians settled parts of the west coast of the US and Mexico down through parts of South America. This has been found due to skull shapes and canoe designs etc from these areas. The Polonesians were exceptional sailors...

Thanks for that.
It totally screws the old theory of culture spread put forth by orthodoxy.
Their idea was there cannot have been contact because there would have been more influence on each of the cultures and many similar things would be found in each.

I think there is but they did not look hard enough, now we are uncovering more.

Big links between the Maori and South America.
Lake Titicaca dried up around 800AD causing the populating to go elsewhere.

There were using shallow lakes with causeways extending out into the lakes with soil on top like a hydroponic system with solar heating.

These methods produce ten times the yield that we get today with so-called modern farming methods.
We suspect that with their food growing methods that they could have sustained a million plus people.

So sometime around 800AD we should see some population movement in South America.

Post: #7

Egyptians in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q89Es0VVCcA

Post: #8

Guitar Doctor  Wrote:

Spank The Monkey  Wrote:

Polonesians settled parts of the west coast of the US and Mexico down through parts of South America. This has been found due to skull shapes and canoe designs etc from these areas. The Polonesians were exceptional sailors...

Thanks for that.
It totally screws the old theory of culture spread put forth by orthodoxy.
Their idea was there cannot have been contact because there would have been more influence on each of the cultures and many similar things would be found in each.

I think there is but they did not look hard enough, now we are uncovering more.

Big links between the Maori and South America.
Lake Titicaca dried up around 800AD causing the populating to go elsewhere.

There were using shallow lakes with causeways extending out into the lakes with soil on top like a hydroponic system with solar heating.

These methods produce ten times the yield that we get today with so-called modern farming methods.
We suspect that with their food growing methods that they could have sustained a million plus people.

So sometime around 800AD we should see some population movement in South America.

There's too much similarity between myths, stories, and religions for there not to have been a common ground. And connection.

Post: #9

Mysterious Australia - Chapter 1

One day in 1931 on a windswept sandhill, the remains of the shoreline a long-vanished lake about 100km south of the Murray River, at Glenloth, Victoria, John Gibbs, a 10 year old local boy, was playing in the shell grit of an ancient Aboriginal midden. In a basin of the sandhill amid the debris of broken shells, he picked up a large fragmenting football-size lump of petrified mud. Protruding from one of the fragments, he found a small bronze coin. Years later a Melbourne Museum numismatist would identify it as Greek, and that it had been minted in Egypt during the reign of the Greek Ptolemy Philometor the 6th in the 2nd century B.C.

There will be more to say about this coin in a future chapter. The suggestion as to how the coin turned up where it was found is of course that it had been left behind by ancient visitors; Greek explorers perhaps, or even Arabs, Indians or Malayans with whom the Greeks traded.

Similarly, in 1961 a family picnicking on the Daly River, west of Katherine in the Northern territory, found a gold scarab, an object of worship of the ancient Egyptians. How did this valuable ornament find its way to such a remote location? One might ask the same question of a carved stone head of the ancient Chinese Goddess Shao Lin {protectress of mariners at sea} removed from a beachfront hillside at Milton, on the New South Wales far south coast in 1983.

The many ancient rock inscriptions of Phoenician, Libyan, Egyptian, Celtic, Scandinavian and other origins that have turned up across Australia. Relics, rock inscriptions and megalithic ruins left here by seafaring adventurers who came here from civilisations now long turned to dust. They sailed in search of new lands rich in gold, silver, copper and tin, precious stones and pearls, using the worlds' oceans as watery highways.

It is one of the objectives of this book to demonstrate that these people not only discovered and mined the mysterious "great south land" and its neighbours, but established colonies {some of which may have survived for generations} and were large and important enough to establish a local ruling class. By the time they vanished they had influenced the cultures of the native peoples of the region, leaving behind them ghostly megalithic ruins of temples, tombs and pyramids and rock scripts in a host of ancient tongues; relics that continue to perplex conservative historians and question the dogma that the peoples of the ancient world lacked the ability to construct and navigate oceangoing water craft.

The fact is that people were putting to sea centuries before the invention of a written language, and that the water craft they sailed in were far from flimsy. Although my book concerns the 'unknown' history of Australia's discovery and exploration, it also is to some degree a history of ancient mining activities throughout the Australian-West Pacific region. In forthcoming chapters, I shall demonstrate that, at various times in antiquity, and during the Copper and Bronze ages in particular, Australia's coastline saw the sails of mineral-seeking peoples from many ancient exotic lands.


http://www.mysteriousaustralia.com/chapter1.html

Post: #10

The Mahogany Ship; What is it and what would finding it mean for Australian history?

In a nutshell the Mahogany ship is the remains of an ancient shipwreck, built of mahogany, reported to lie in the sand dunes behind the long beach west of Warrnambool. The fact that the mahogany ship was first officially noted in 1836 as already being an ancient shipwreck only about 40 years after the First Fleet arrived in Australia implies that the mahogany ship was wrecked before British settlement of Australia which in turn implies that another sea faring nation, most likely the Spanish or the Portuguese, had explored the East coast of Australia long before Captain Cook.
Mahogany, like teak, is a very hard wood and does not rot as rapidly as oak, pine and other European timbers (see accounts of eye wittnesses below).

The fact that the mahogany ship is reported as having a hull made of mahogany implies that it is a ship of non-European origins, which again implies that the Portuguese or Spanish, who both had colonies in Asia from the 15th century, 300 years before Cook sailed the Pacific, explored the Australian coast.

If the Mahogany ship is found and can be proved to be pre-Cook and belonging to either Spain or Portugal the claims that Cook used stolen Spanish or Portuguese maps to navigate the Pacific and to find Australia's east coast, which claims have been circulating in Australian history circles for nearly 200 years, would suddenly be proven. This would mean that the entire history of Australia would have to be re-written and the perpetual, Anglo-centric claim that Captain James Cook was the world's greatest navigator would have to be dropped in favor of a Spanish or Portuguese navigator.


http://www.stradbrokeislandgalleon.com/m...yship.html

Post: #11

Great stuff spacey.

The navigator peoples of the world understood it was round. The Vikings, Egyptians, Phoneticians, Chinese being just a handful. Add to that the Polynesians and other peoples who lived on the oceans of the world.

We also see ancient trade between South Africa to the Horn of Africa and beyond, this can only have bee done efficiently by boat.

Lots of interesting things in Australia, the majority of the population never leave the coastline and the Aboriginal people have learned not to share their secret location because of what has happened tot he ones they did tell the white settlers about.

Post: #12

Here's a new one I hadn't heard about - Pyramids in Hawaii

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB4COpF9_wE


Hi Guitar Doc. How are you going today. It will be fun contributing to this thread, thanks for making it.

Post: #13

Graham Hancock makes an excellent case for how the reed boats in Egypt were constructed IDENTICALLY to how they are still constructed by natives on Lake Titicaca.

And these are sea-faring boats. Not built for cruising around the lake....

Post: #14

The Australian aboriginals weren't dumb, they lived where we live now, on the coasts where they were able to fish, and at the mouths of rivers, where wildlife is abundant. They would have had settlements in all the richer areas we took from them. It was the English who generously gave them the deserts to live in, and forced them inland, assuming they would die there.

And yes, you are correct in that they stopped telling us anything, once they saw us rob and destroy the things which were sacred to them.

Post: #15

Full Circle  Wrote:

Graham Hancock makes an excellent case for how the reed boats in Egypt were constructed IDENTICALLY to how they are still constructed by natives on Lake Titicaca.

And these are sea-faring boats. Not built for cruising around the lake....

I saw a documentary recently about a ship they had found at the bottom of a big lake, in Italy I think it was. They came to the conclusion that it was Calgiula's vacation party cruise ship. He ruled Rome in the years 37-41AD.

It had brass taps, and indications that it had hot running water on board, with a bath and flushable toilet. It also had infloor heating. We didn't think of that until this century. If they could make something like that for a pleasure cruises, they were very capable of building ocean going vessels.