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**Sine Wave**

Twatwaffle Wrote:

future is doomed? Wrote:
People would still have to work or contribute in some way to society but not everybody would have to work 40+ hrs. a week unless they wanted to with no extra incentive.

What should we do with those that do not wish to work for nor contribute to society?

when the oppression is lifted, so will people's spirits. everyone wants to be useful and feel productive.

**Twatwaffle** lop guest User ID: 114029 08-11-2012 06:54 PM

Sine Wave Wrote:

when the oppression is lifted, so will people's spirits. everyone wants to be useful and feel productive.

Let's agree this will happen as you describe for the sake of a conversation.

What should we do with those that still do not wish to work for nor contribute to society even after the "oppression is lifted"?

**Sine Wave**

Twatwaffle Wrote:

Sine Wave Wrote:
when the oppression is lifted, so will people's spirits. everyone wants to be useful and feel productive.

Let's agree this will happen as you describe for the sake of a conversation.

What should we do with those that still do not wish to work for nor contribute to society even after the "oppression is lifted"?

who are "we" and who gives "we" the authority to do anything with anyone?

in my view people are hardwired to thrive and excel, so for the sake of energy conservation this discussion does not interest me. Heartflowers

**AMPAMPERSAND** · (This post was last modified: 08-11-2012 07:33 PM by AMPAMPERSAND.)

future is doomed? Wrote:

Gibbie Wrote:
Sine Wave Wrote:
a tool? yeah, a control and manipulation tool, to lie and cheat and rob. money has lost all sense of fair exchange, if indeed it ever had any. it's near the end for many reasons, but it's like a top that spins out becoming wobbly and finally rests.

what comes next is the big question, not another corrupted system for sure. but what? and in 5d? money carries a lot of baggage .....

Money is the most efficient way to trade goods and services. Even the communists use money. There are many forms of money and many new types are proposed all the time. The money as debt fraud is beginning to undergo a violent transformation. Who will pick up the pieces when it is finally smashed?

I say get rid of all forms of money and debt altogether. Then let everybody share everything as equally as possible within their communities and as a nation and as a globe. People would still have to work or contribute in some way to society but not everybody would have to work 40+ hrs. a week unless they wanted to with no extra incentive. All products and new gadgets would be distributed in more of a library type fashion. Also, we would have to conserve resources and work together in an extreme fashion. A lot of the things we do today would have to be restructured and redesigned. There would be mandatory voting by the public for politicians that don't have set agendas and aren't being fed with corruption because no form of money. There would be limits and laws in place to ensure safety. Sure, there would be problems in this type of global society but I think it would be much better than what we have today. An egalitarian based society is more like what I'm thinking of.

Sounds like Communism to me, and the problem with Communism is a lack of incentive, this country was made great because producers had incentives.

The beginnings of Money believe it or not is directly tied to food and as necessary. The production of food is by and large seasonal, and money became important as a means of holding the value of food production off season, that is the farmer could sell his produce and hold the money he earned to feed himself through the winter, because his produce would rot. Now in the middle of winter he could pay and an importer for food shipped in from across the globe (where it is summer), and that same importer would buy from the farmer in the summer time.

Like it or not without a credible medium of exchange (money), we would still be living in tents, mudhuts, and log cabins starving and freezing through the winter. The lack of money would decimate civilization, many millions would starve to death. Like I said earlier, Money is a great tool for trade, the problems arise when third parties demand a cut.

**Gibbie** · **Gibbie** ^D ^D ^D whoa User ID: 34710 08-11-2012 08:28 PM **Posts: 7,187**

AMPAMPERSAND Wrote:

future is doomed? Wrote:
Gibbie Wrote:
Money is the most efficient way to trade goods and services. Even the communists use money. There are many forms of money and many new types are proposed all the time. The money as debt fraud is beginning to undergo a violent transformation. Who will pick up the pieces when it is finally smashed?

I say get rid of all forms of money and debt altogether. Then let everybody share everything as equally as possible within their communities and as a nation and as a globe. People would still have to work or contribute in some way to society but not everybody would have to work 40+ hrs. a week unless they wanted to with no extra incentive. All products and new gadgets would be distributed in more of a library type fashion. Also, we would have to conserve resources and work together in an extreme fashion. A lot of the things we do today would have to be restructured and redesigned. There would be mandatory voting by the public for politicians that don't have set agendas and aren't being fed with corruption because no form of money. There would be limits and laws in place to ensure safety. Sure, there would be problems in this type of global society but I think it would be much better than what we have today. An egalitarian based society is more like what I'm thinking of.

Sounds like Communism to me, and the problem with Communism is a lack of incentive, this country was made great because producers had incentives.

The beginnings of Money believe it or not is directly tied to food and as necessary. The production of food is by and large seasonal, and money became important as a means of holding the value of food production off season, that is the farmer could sell his produce and hold the money he earned to feed himself through the winter, because his produce would rot. Now in the middle of winter he could pay and an importer for food shipped in from across the globe (where it is summer), and that same importer would buy from the farmer in the summer time.

Like it or not without a credible medium of exchange (money), we would still be living in tents, mudhuts, and log cabins starving and freezing through the winter. The lack of money would decimate civilization, many millions would starve to death. Like I said earlier, Money is a great tool for trade, the problems arise when third parties demand a cut.

People under communist rule had lots of incentive. You work or you are put in a gulag or worse.

**future is doomed?**

Gibbie Wrote:

AMPAMPERSAND Wrote:
future is doomed? Wrote:
I say get rid of all forms of money and debt altogether. Then let everybody share everything as equally as possible within their communities and as a nation and as a globe. People would still have to work or contribute in some way to society but not everybody would have to work 40+ hrs. a week unless they wanted to with no extra incentive. All products and new gadgets would be distributed in more of a library type fashion. Also, we would have to conserve resources and work together in an extreme fashion. A lot of the things we do today would have to be restructured and redesigned. There would be mandatory voting by the public for politicians that don't have set agendas and aren't being fed with corruption because no form of money. There would be limits and laws in place to ensure safety. Sure, there would be problems in this type of global society but I think it would be much better than what we have today. An egalitarian based society is more like what I'm thinking of.

Sounds like Communism to me, and the problem with Communism is a lack of incentive, this country was made great because producers had incentives.

The beginnings of Money believe it or not is directly tied to food and as necessary. The production of food is by and large seasonal, and money became important as a means of holding the value of food production off season, that is the farmer could sell his produce and hold the money he earned to feed himself through the winter, because his produce would rot. Now in the middle of winter he could pay and an importer for food shipped in from across the globe (where it is summer), and that same importer would buy from the farmer in the summer time.

Like it or not without a credible medium of exchange (money), we would still be living in tents, mudhuts, and log cabins starving and freezing through the winter. The lack of money would decimate civilization, many millions would starve to death. Like I said earlier, Money is a great tool for trade, the problems arise when third parties demand a cut.

People under communist rule had lots of incentive. You work or you are put in a gulag or worse.

I think you're right. Communists are usually ruthless, but that isn't exactly what I'm preaching. Communists have a lot of problems. There are ways you can still have incentives just not based off of a currency. There is always an incentive to survive otherwise people would just give up and die all the time. I love the idea of barter because it still creates a safer economical system than fiat currency.

Some people can't even work but should be able to survive. If everyone came together as a collective whole and voted on things as a collective whole rather than have "representatives". That alone would solve a lot of problems.

Money just does not work. It hasn't in the past and doesn't right now. Neither does war, power, or oppression. We can easily do away with these things if we put our minds to it. I have heard several success stories of businesses in which all of the employees own a business equally, and they all work equally within the business, and they all make business decisions for the business, and they are highly successful businesses. This is because everyone is watching everyone else back and everybody is looking out for each other. We can do the same thing but on a more global scale. Take out the money factor and give people other incentives like more vacation time if they work so many hours of overtime. There are ways to create an almost utopia like lifestyle for the majority of the world, but everybody is too afraid to try them or deny that they would even work. How can you achieve greatness if you aren't willing to take the risk? Answer me that.

**future is doomed?**

Twatwaffle Wrote:

future is doomed? Wrote:
People would still have to work or contribute in some way to society but not everybody would have to work 40+ hrs. a week unless they wanted to with no extra incentive.

What should we do with those that do not wish to work for nor contribute to society?

Difficult question that would probably have to be answered by the community as a whole, not a group of representatives, or a dictator. This answer would probably be the best answer.

**Twatwaffle** lop guest User ID: 114029 08-11-2012 10:44 PM

future is doomed? Wrote:

Twatwaffle Wrote:
What should we do with those that do not wish to work for nor contribute to society?

Difficult question that would probably have to be answered by the community as a whole, not a group of representatives, or a dictator. This answer would probably be the best answer.

Does a person have a right to be left alone?

Does a "community" have the right to compel someone to engage or the right to coerce or otherwise punish those that have no desire to be engage?

**Gibbie** · **Gibbie** ^D ^D ^D whoa User ID: 34710 08-11-2012 10:49 PM **Posts: 7,187**

Twatwaffle Wrote:

future is doomed? Wrote:
Twatwaffle Wrote:
What should we do with those that do not wish to work for nor contribute to society?

Difficult question that would probably have to be answered by the community as a whole, not a group of representatives, or a dictator. This answer would probably be the best answer.

Does a person have a right to be left alone?

Does a "community" have the right to compel someone to engage or the right to coerce or otherwise punish those that have no desire to be engage?

There are over 5 million felons in america and thousands of unpunished white collar criminals. Not everyone is going to play by the rules!

**future is doomed?**

Twatwaffle Wrote:

future is doomed? Wrote:
Twatwaffle Wrote:
What should we do with those that do not wish to work for nor contribute to society?

Difficult question that would probably have to be answered by the community as a whole, not a group of representatives, or a dictator. This answer would probably be the best answer.

Does a person have a right to be left alone?

Does a "community" have the right to compel someone to engage or the right to coerce or otherwise punish those that have no desire to be engage?

If someone doesn't want to contribute then "why" exactly should they have the right to be a part of the community. That's how our society is now. The only difference in this new world is that low-lifes would have more opportunities to work. If they don't want to work then they can't be banished to the forest or something as punishment until they decide they want to contribute in some way to the community.

**future is doomed?**

Gibbie Wrote:

Twatwaffle Wrote:
future is doomed? Wrote:
Difficult question that would probably have to be answered by the community as a whole, not a group of representatives, or a dictator. This answer would probably be the best answer.

Does a person have a right to be left alone?

Does a "community" have the right to compel someone to engage or the right to coerce or otherwise punish those that have no desire to be engage?

There are over 5 million felons in america and thousands of unpunished white collar criminals. Not everyone is going to play by the rules!

The answer is building a wall around each community that safeguards the community. All communities talk to each other. One solution is that anybody that doesn't want to play by the rules gets banished to the outside walls of the community where they have to survive on their own.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 90900 08-12-2012 06:46 AM

AMPAMPERSAND Wrote:

future is doomed? Wrote:
Gibbie Wrote:
Money is the most efficient way to trade goods and services. Even the communists use money. There are many forms of money and many new types are proposed all the time. The money as debt fraud is beginning to undergo a violent transformation. Who will pick up the pieces when it is finally smashed?

I say get rid of all forms of money and debt altogether. Then let everybody share everything as equally as possible within their communities and as a nation and as a globe. People would still have to work or contribute in some way to society but not everybody would have to work 40+ hrs. a week unless they wanted to with no extra incentive. All products and new gadgets would be distributed in more of a library type fashion. Also, we would have to conserve resources and work together in an extreme fashion. A lot of the things we do today would have to be restructured and redesigned. There would be mandatory voting by the public for politicians that don't have set agendas and aren't being fed with corruption because no form of money. There would be limits and laws in place to ensure safety. Sure, there would be problems in this type of global society but I think it would be much better than what we have today. An egalitarian based society is more like what I'm thinking of.

Sounds like Communism to me, and the problem with Communism is a lack of incentive, this country was made great because producers had incentives.

The beginnings of Money believe it or not is directly tied to food and as necessary. The production of food is by and large seasonal, and money became important as a means of holding the value of food production off season, that is the farmer could sell his produce and hold the money he earned to feed himself through the winter, because his produce would rot. Now in the middle of winter he could pay and an importer for food shipped in from across the globe (where it is summer), and that same importer would buy from the farmer in the summer time.

Like it or not without a credible medium of exchange (money), we would still be living in tents, mudhuts, and log cabins starving and freezing through the winter. The lack of money would decimate civilization, many millions would starve to death. Like I said earlier, Money is a great tool for trade, the problems arise when third parties demand a cut.

That is not Communism you ignorant American, it is Socialism in its true form.
Communism is when the people work to support the Government and then the Government gives out everything that it decides that the people require to exist in its Society.
You must have went to school in the Republic of the United States of America, you know the one and only TRUE Democracy. The USA is not a Democracy like you have been told either it is a Republic.