Post: #16

LoP Guest  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

I still don't quite understand this. Has he been charged with a crime?

No, he's on a three-day psychiatric assessment in the hospital.

What he wrote in his FB wasn't threatening to anyone neither very unusual. It was just - sorry ladies and gents - nuts.

http://www.fontcraft.com/idiotwars/?p=5795

I know you will fiercely disagree with me, but hey....

You're right, I do fiercely disagree with you - seems you have been conditioned well.

Post: #17

TheMindWars  Wrote:

STOPPITT  Wrote:

TheMindWars  Wrote:

Fact: Be polite and they will continue to do what they are doing because they have no reason to stop.

Illegally detained? For posting his opinion? That is mighty kind. If it can be acceptable for a Marine, it can be acceptable for anyone?

I think you misunderstood my meaning. I was talking about why should we be polite to the hospital holding him?

No harm done. Got it. I just thought it was mighty unkind for them to arrest him

Post: #18

"I'm currently in John Randolph in the psychiatric ward being held against my will," Brandon Raub, 26, said in a telephone interview with the Times-Dispatch. "They were concerned about me calling for the arrest of government officials."

Raub noted that he has been raising questions about 9/11 and signed a petition to reopen an investigation of the terrorist attacks.

Lawyers from The Rutherford Institute represented Brandon Raub during the three-hour hearing today at the John Randolph Medical Center and released a statement, saying Raub has been sentenced to "up to 30 days’ further confinement in a VA psych ward" after "government officials again pointed to Raub’s Facebook posts as the sole reason for their concern and for his continued incarceration."

According to Raub's mother, authorities from the FBI, Secret Service and Chesterfield County PD came to their door on Thursday evening, questioned Raub about his Facebook posts, then handcuffed him and placed him in a Chesterfield PD squad car before taking him to John Randolph Psychiatric Hospital in Hopewell, Va.

Both the FBI and Secret Service said Raub was not arrested or charged, but the Rutherford Institute statement points out that "if the police have put handcuffs on you and you’re being held against your will, that qualifies as an arrest."

When asked about why Raub was placed in a psychiatric ward, FBI Richmond spokeswoman told us that the FBI "had nothing to do with that" and that the FBI typically doesn't "make determinations such as that."

"We went out to interview him because of complaints that our office had received about people coming across his posts and perceiving them as threatening so our office along with Chesterfield County Police Department on Thursday," Rybiski told us. "When we left we had not arrested him, we had not placed our hands on him, we did not detain him and we did not charge him."

Secret Service spokesman Brian Leary said: "The Secret Service assisted the FBI with the interview. He was not arrested by the Secret Service. The Secret Service will continue to monitor the situation. We have no further comment at this time."

The Chesterfield PD – who had previously said the situation "was an FBI matter and we were just there to assist them" – released this statement (emphasis ours):

Chesterfield Police assisted federal authorities in their efforts to interview Brandon J. Raub on Thursday, Aug. 16. After speaking to Raub, officers believed him to be in need of further evaluation.

Chesterfield officers at the scene contacted Chesterfield Mental Health Crisis Intervention. Crisis workers recommended that police take Raub into custody and bring him in for evaluation.

Chesterfield police took Raub into custody for evaluation in accordance with Virginia State Code § 37.2-808 Emergency custody.

Raub was placed in handcuffs after he resisted officers’ attempts to take him into custody.

Raub was evaluated by a Chesterfield mental health official, who determined that he should be held under a temporary [detention] order and transported to John Randolph Medical Center for additional evaluation.

Raub was not arrested and he faces no criminal charges in Chesterfield.

The Virginia statute states that a mental health professional can decide to issue a temporary detention order if "it appears ... that the person (i) has a mental illness and that there exists a substantial likelihood that, as a result of mental illness, the person will, in the near future, (a) cause serious physical harm to himself or others as evidenced by recent behavior causing, attempting, or threatening harm and other relevant information, if any, or (b) suffer serious harm due to his lack of capacity to protect himself from harm or to provide for his basic human needs, (ii) is in need of hospitalization or treatment, and (iii) is unwilling to volunteer or incapable of volunteering for hospitalization or treatment."

"I really love America, and I think that idea that you can be detained and sent somewhere without due process and a lawyer … is crazy," Raub said.

Raub said he served as a Marine in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2005 to 2011, was a combat engineer sergeant and does not own a gun. His mother said he returned from Afghanistan about a year ago and does not have PTSD.

Raub wrote five articles about economics and the Richmond Liberty Movement for the website Don't Tread On Me and his Linked-In profile says he owns a small coin business through the Numis Network.

John W. Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute, said the following: “For government officials to not only arrest Brandon Raub for doing nothing more than exercising his First Amendment rights but to actually force him to undergo psychological evaluations and detain him against his will goes against every constitutional principle this country was founded upon. This should be a wake-up call to Americans that the police state is here.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/former-ma...911-2012-8

Post: #19

RUTHERFORD INSTITUTE DEFENDS MARINE ARRESTED: Statement on Hearing

**BREAKING NEWS** Virginia Cop Block just received this statement from The Rutherford Institute on Brandon Raub’s incarceration/ hearing.
“FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: August 20, 2012
Contact: Nisha N. Whitehead, Ph: (434) 978-3888; Cell: (434) 466-6168; [email protected]

RUTHERFORD INSTITUTE DEFENDS MARINE ARRESTED, INCARCERATED IN PSYCH WARD & DETAINED INDEFINITELY FOR POSTING POLITICAL VIEWS, SONG LYRICS TO FACEBOOK

CHESTERFIELD, VA— The Rutherford Institute has come to the defense of a former Marine, 26-year-old Brandon Raub, who was arrested, detained indefinitely in a psych ward and forced to undergo psychological evaluations based solely on the controversial nature of lines from song lyrics, political messages and virtual card games which he posted to his private Facebook page. Although the FBI and Chesterfield County police have not charged Brandon Raub, a resident of Chesterfield County, Va., with committing any crime, they arrested Raub on Thursday, August 16, 2012, and transported him to John Randolph Medical Center, where he was held against his will due to alleged concerns that his Facebook (FB) posts were controversial and “terrorist in nature.” In a hearing held at the hospital, government officials disregarded Raub’s explanation that the Facebook posts were being interpreted out of context, sentencing him up to 30 days’ further confinement in a VA psych ward. In coming to Raub’s defense, Rutherford Institute attorneys are challenging Raub’s arrest and forcible detention, as well as the government’s overt Facebook surveillance and violation of Raub’s First Amendment rights.

“For government officials to not only arrest Brandon Raub for doing nothing more than exercising his First Amendment rights but to actually force him to undergo psychological evaluations and detain him against his will goes against every constitutional principle this country was founded upon. This should be a wake-up call to Americans that the police state is here,” said John W. Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute. “Brandon Raub is no different from the majority of Americans who use their private Facebook pages to post a variety of content, ranging from song lyrics and political hyperbole to trash talking their neighbors, friends and government leaders.”

Brandon Raub, a former Marine who has served tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, was detained by FBI agents and police officers at his home in Chesterfield County based upon the nature of content posted to his Facebook page in recent months. Like many Facebook users, Raub uses his FB page to post songs lyrics and air his political opinions, as well as engage in virtual online games with other users. On Thursday, August 16, police and FBI agents arrived at Raub’s home, asking to speak with him about his Facebook posts. They did not provide Raub with a search warrant. Raub was cooperative and agreed to speak with them. Without providing any explanation, levying any charges against Raub or reading him his rights, law enforcement officials then handcuffed Raub and transported him first to the police headquarters, then to John Randolph Medical Center, where he was held against his will. Outraged onlookers filmed the arrest and posted the footage to YouTube. Law enforcement officials have stated in press reports that Raub was not arrested. However, as attorney John Whitehead points out, if the police have put handcuffs on you and you’re being held against your will, that qualifies as an arrest. In a hearing before a judge on August 20, government officials again pointed to Raub’s Facebook posts as the sole reason for their concern and for his continued incarceration. Ignoring Raub’s explanations about the fact that the FB posts were being read out of context and his attorney’s First Amendment defense, the judge agreed that Raub should be incarcerated at a VA hospital for up to 30 more days. Rutherford Institute attorneys are working to challenge Raub’s detention and the highly unconstitutional nature of the government’s actions.

The Rutherford Institute, a nonprofit civil liberties organization, provides legal assistance at no charge to individuals whose constitutional rights have been threatened or violated.”

Post: #20

Mike  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

I still don't quite understand this. Has he been charged with a crime?

No, he's on a three-day psychiatric assessment in the hospital.

What he wrote in his FB wasn't threatening to anyone neither very unusual. It was just - sorry ladies and gents - nuts.

http://www.fontcraft.com/idiotwars/?p=5795

I know you will fiercely disagree with me, but hey....

You're right, I do fiercely disagree with you - seems you have been conditioned well.

It's okay; smile you're at Lunatic Outpost.

http://www.fontcraft.com/idiotwars/?p=5795

Quote:...The threatening statements and photos of Raub posting semi-nude with an antique shotgun are not particularly unusual for young people acting out their dissatisfaction with the increasingly restrictive government in the United States. What may distinguish his page is the combination of revolutionary rhetoric with clearly nutty conspiracy theories and the fact that he has a military background – a triple threat of red flags which may have drawn the attention of law enforcement.

However, his last few posts before he was taken into custody suggest that he may have been involved in deliberately attracting the attention of federal law enforcement and he seems to have been aware that he was going to be taken into custody a day before it happened when he posted “The Revolution will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to lead it. ” It seems likely that he believed that his arrest would be some sort of catalyst for revolution.

It is significant that Raub was not arrested, but rather put under psychiatric evaluation. This seems like a relatively rational response to his behavior. While it is absolutely unacceptable to have the government monitoring private internet postings and evaluating online behavior as the basis for arresting people, if Raub did deliberately draw attention to himself as being potentially dangerous, putting him on a three-day psychiatric assessment was a more reasonable response than arresting him and treating him as a terrorist.

It has been well established that the irrational belief in conspiracies can be a symptom of a mental disorder called Cognitive Dissonance, which can lead to delusions and violent or self-destructive behavior in its most extreme form. Victims become paranoid and separated from reality and ultimately sociopathic and unable to relate to other people normally. Traditionally this disorder is dismissed as harmless, but it is not surprising that in combination with violent statements and aggressive behavior it might be considered a matter of concern.

If the people around the shooters had watched for warning signs like this then the recent shooting sprees in Colorado and Wisconsin might have been avoided. In both cases the men involved had shown increasingly peculiar behavior and had cut off ties to family and friends. If they had received psychiatric help before their behavior became dangerous many lives might have been saved...

Post: #21

oh
and on this thread if one disagrees with the whole violation of 1st amendment rights ideal, are they asked to leave too?

First Amendment rights do not include threats or inciting violence, whether they are quoting a song or the Bible, especially if one is a battle-hardened Marine - PERIOD! If he didn't exercise the common sense that god gave a tree in posting this, he needs to be exactly where he is. Sorry the poor guy feels like he's being held against his will but DUH, dumbshit, what exactly did you think would happen?

Post: #22

ButtonsArentToys  Wrote:

oh
and on this thread if one disagrees with the whole violation of 1st amendment rights ideal, are they asked to leave too?

First Amendment rights do not include threats or inciting violence, whether they are quoting a song or the Bible, especially if one is a battle-hardened Marine - PERIOD! If he didn't exercise the common sense that god gave a tree in posting this, he needs to be exactly where he is. Sorry the poor guy feels like he's being held against his will but DUH, dumbshit, what exactly did you think would happen?

If I read his comments as threats then I would feel equally obligated to read anybody who quotes one of numerous quotes from our founding fathers (tree of liberty being refreshed as one example) as threatening as well. I just don't see it as threatening, perhaps approaching that territory but not there yet IMO.

Post: #23

Mike  Wrote:

ButtonsArentToys  Wrote:

oh
and on this thread if one disagrees with the whole violation of 1st amendment rights ideal, are they asked to leave too?

First Amendment rights do not include threats or inciting violence, whether they are quoting a song or the Bible, especially if one is a battle-hardened Marine - PERIOD! If he didn't exercise the common sense that god gave a tree in posting this, he needs to be exactly where he is. Sorry the poor guy feels like he's being held against his will but DUH, dumbshit, what exactly did you think would happen?

If I read his comments as threats then I would feel equally obligated to read anybody who quotes one of numerous quotes from our founding fathers (tree of liberty being refreshed as one example) as threatening as well. I just don't see it as threatening, perhaps approaching that territory but not there yet IMO.

well someone up the page pointed out quite clearly and all I really have to say in my opinion about it comes from the perspective of being the mom of a soldier who has and who has many friends who have PTSD/TBI. We are told often to watch for warning signs such as this in our soldiers and their friends. There is a reason for this.
Given that this particular Marine still believes that it is the job of the USA to bring God to the rest of the world, and he pretty much throws in with the rest of the religious crackers that this whole war on terror is nothing more than the right wing's attempt to dupe the Christian population of this country into believing that they have God's blessing to act violently in His behalf, says volumes. No he didn't say all that, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to boil it all down. The US military is not God's Army as some so desperately want to believe.

Post: #24

LoP Guest  Wrote:

LoP Guest  Wrote:

I still don't quite understand this. Has he been charged with a crime?

No, he's on a three-day psychiatric assessment in the hospital.

What he wrote in his FB wasn't threatening to anyone neither very unusual. It was just - sorry ladies and gents - nuts.

http://www.fontcraft.com/idiotwars/?p=5795

I know you will fiercely disagree with me, but hey....

I agree it was a bit nuts.Radical.
I do however really understand where he is coming from.
I am not immediate family so was hung up on.

Post: #25

Mike  Wrote:

ButtonsArentToys  Wrote:

oh
and on this thread if one disagrees with the whole violation of 1st amendment rights ideal, are they asked to leave too?

First Amendment rights do not include threats or inciting violence, whether they are quoting a song or the Bible, especially if one is a battle-hardened Marine - PERIOD! If he didn't exercise the common sense that god gave a tree in posting this, he needs to be exactly where he is. Sorry the poor guy feels like he's being held against his will but DUH, dumbshit, what exactly did you think would happen?

If I read his comments as threats then I would feel equally obligated to read anybody who quotes one of numerous quotes from our founding fathers (tree of liberty being refreshed as one example) as threatening as well. I just don't see it as threatening, perhaps approaching that territory but not there yet IMO.

I looooove founding fathers quotes as well! My favorite ones are:

“Dude; what does mine say?” - Thomas Jefferson
“Sweet; what does mine say?” - Alexander Hamilton

Post: #26

Cognitive Dissonance = Aware Dissident

Correct?

An opinion that is not congruent with, so called 'authority'?

That's not a legal framework for any reaction.

Its a value judgement.

(made by people who fund their jobs through ambiguous medical jargon that doesn't have an actual insurance medical billing code)

So what is the exact medical diagnosis?

The one that has the billing code.

Post: #27

This is unprecedented

LoP Guest  Wrote:

RUTHERFORD INSTITUTE DEFENDS MARINE ARRESTED: Statement on Hearing

**BREAKING NEWS** Virginia Cop Block just received this statement from The Rutherford Institute on Brandon Raub’s incarceration/ hearing.
“FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: August 20, 2012
Contact: Nisha N. Whitehead, Ph: (434) 978-3888; Cell: (434) 466-6168; [email protected]

RUTHERFORD INSTITUTE DEFENDS MARINE ARRESTED, INCARCERATED IN PSYCH WARD & DETAINED INDEFINITELY FOR POSTING POLITICAL VIEWS, SONG LYRICS TO FACEBOOK

CHESTERFIELD, VA— The Rutherford Institute has come to the defense of a former Marine, 26-year-old Brandon Raub, who was arrested, detained indefinitely in a psych ward and forced to undergo psychological evaluations based solely on the controversial nature of lines from song lyrics, political messages and virtual card games which he posted to his private Facebook page. Although the FBI and Chesterfield County police have not charged Brandon Raub, a resident of Chesterfield County, Va., with committing any crime, they arrested Raub on Thursday, August 16, 2012, and transported him to John Randolph Medical Center, where he was held against his will due to alleged concerns that his Facebook (FB) posts were controversial and “terrorist in nature.” In a hearing held at the hospital, government officials disregarded Raub’s explanation that the Facebook posts were being interpreted out of context, sentencing him up to 30 days’ further confinement in a VA psych ward. In coming to Raub’s defense, Rutherford Institute attorneys are challenging Raub’s arrest and forcible detention, as well as the government’s overt Facebook surveillance and violation of Raub’s First Amendment rights.

“For government officials to not only arrest Brandon Raub for doing nothing more than exercising his First Amendment rights but to actually force him to undergo psychological evaluations and detain him against his will goes against every constitutional principle this country was founded upon. This should be a wake-up call to Americans that the police state is here,” said John W. Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute. “Brandon Raub is no different from the majority of Americans who use their private Facebook pages to post a variety of content, ranging from song lyrics and political hyperbole to trash talking their neighbors, friends and government leaders.”

Brandon Raub, a former Marine who has served tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, was detained by FBI agents and police officers at his home in Chesterfield County based upon the nature of content posted to his Facebook page in recent months. Like many Facebook users, Raub uses his FB page to post songs lyrics and air his political opinions, as well as engage in virtual online games with other users. On Thursday, August 16, police and FBI agents arrived at Raub’s home, asking to speak with him about his Facebook posts. They did not provide Raub with a search warrant. Raub was cooperative and agreed to speak with them. Without providing any explanation, levying any charges against Raub or reading him his rights, law enforcement officials then handcuffed Raub and transported him first to the police headquarters, then to John Randolph Medical Center, where he was held against his will. Outraged onlookers filmed the arrest and posted the footage to YouTube. Law enforcement officials have stated in press reports that Raub was not arrested. However, as attorney John Whitehead points out, if the police have put handcuffs on you and you’re being held against your will, that qualifies as an arrest. In a hearing before a judge on August 20, government officials again pointed to Raub’s Facebook posts as the sole reason for their concern and for his continued incarceration. Ignoring Raub’s explanations about the fact that the FB posts were being read out of context and his attorney’s First Amendment defense, the judge agreed that Raub should be incarcerated at a VA hospital for up to 30 more days. Rutherford Institute attorneys are working to challenge Raub’s detention and the highly unconstitutional nature of the government’s actions.

The Rutherford Institute, a nonprofit civil liberties organization, provides legal assistance at no charge to individuals whose constitutional rights have been threatened or violated.”

Post: #28

The FBI knew when they took him that it would all end up on these sites and they did it anyway. Almost a warning shot...... Stay sharp people you never know who's going to come knocking.

Post: #29

Here is where Raub Screwed Up.

The moment the authorities began asking him questions he should have shut his mouth and kept it shut.

From that moment on he should have remained silent. As long as your cooperative physically they cannot hold the fact that you refuse to carry on a conversation, or answer questions against you. One can simply keep repeating to them over and over that you do not wish to speak to them without talking to an attorney.

If they wanted to take him to the Psychiatric Hospital he should have remained silent there as well.

Its very easy to deal with this kind of incarceration as long as you keep your mouth shut.

The moment you open your mouth about anything they got you.

If he had kept his mouth shut he would have been back home after three days. That is the law.

Post: #30

Or here's a thought, maybe he really is mentally ill.