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What dies first.. the mind or the body?
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 148576
01-30-2013 09:57 PM

 



Post: #16
What dies first.. the mind or the body?
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Bodyless heads that twitch and blink could just be nerve twitches such as you see when some animals are killed. Have you ever heard of "like a chicken with its head cut off?" From what I understand sometimes chickens run around when their heads have been cut off. Also, the bodies of snakes will twitch and writhe after they are dead. It's just nerve twitches.
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seasnake
Registered User
User ID: 67904
01-30-2013 11:36 PM

Posts: 11,100



Post: #17
What dies first.. the mind or the body?
I had a 18 year old house cat die a couple years back where her body finally just gave out on her. I held her and then rested beside her as she slowly went through death. She must have had small strokes along the way as her heart would falter and then her breathing would weaken and become lighter and farther between after each time. Her mind was active as I kept testing her by calling her name and moving my finger so she could reachout and paw it. This is where it becomes strange though, her heart finally gave out and her breathing came to a stop but mentally she was still alert for close to around 20 minutes after. No heart beat at all and you could tell the changes in her body, the stiffening and everything, but she still responded to her name, still would follow my finger, still gave signs she was still there. Now you may try and call that twitching or whatever but twitching does not follow a finger, twitching does not turn a head to you when a name is called. Her body had died and somehow she hung to her sentient control of her completely stopped heart body up to 20 minutes after.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 91311
01-30-2013 11:59 PM

 



Post: #18
What dies first.. the mind or the body?
This made me think twice about organ donation


Could the clinically dead feel pain?
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2...166001.htm

"Fears that brain-dead patients having their organs removed for donation
could still feel pain have sparked calls for use of anaesthetics.

The Guardian reports that British anaesthetists are urging that
anaesthetics be used in all situations where organs are being removed from
a patient. The call comes this week in an editorial in Anaesthesia, the
journal of the Royal College of Anaesthetists.

The writers, Basil Matta and Peter Young from Addenbrooke%19s Hospital in
Cambridge said: %1Cdeath is not an event but a process, and our limited
understanding of the process should demand caution before assuming that
anaesthesia is not required%1D.

Anaesthetists have long debated whether pain might be experienced by
someone who is clinically brain dead. It is common for patients from whose
body organs are being removed to still be connected to a resuscitator, and
still have a beating heart.

The concerns come from the fact that if a patient is not sedated during
procedures to remove heart, lung, liver and pancreas, there is often an
alarming and dramatic response from the body.

But the controversy deepened last year when British public watchdog, the
Intensive Care Society, published guidelines which stated that analgesia
was not necessary in this situation. The Department of Health has agreed
with this assessment.

Anaesthetists have observed that patients' pulse and blood pressure shoot
up when the first cut is made. Theatre staff are often distressed when
clinically dead patients move and wriggle about, to the point where it is
impossible to operate.

The editorial claimed that studies showed there was some level of activity
in brain cells, even when the brain stem (which connects the brain to the
spine) was not active. However, the guidelines said that dead patients do
not require analgesia or sedation. It added that dead people did not
require anaesthesia, and if a person was not dead, they should not be
having their organs taken away."
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 149271
01-31-2013 12:11 AM

 



Post: #19
What dies first.. the mind or the body?
seasnake  Wrote: (01-30-2013 11:36 PM)
I had a 18 year old house cat die a couple years back where her body finally just gave out on her. I held her and then rested beside her as she slowly went through death. She must have had small strokes along the way as her heart would falter and then her breathing would weaken and become lighter and farther between after each time. Her mind was active as I kept testing her by calling her name and moving my finger so she could reachout and paw it. This is where it becomes strange though, her heart finally gave out and her breathing came to a stop but mentally she was still alert for close to around 20 minutes after. No heart beat at all and you could tell the changes in her body, the stiffening and everything, but she still responded to her name, still would follow my finger, still gave signs she was still there. Now you may try and call that twitching or whatever but twitching does not follow a finger, twitching does not turn a head to you when a name is called. Her body had died and somehow she hung to her sentient control of her completely stopped heart body up to 20 minutes after.

As odd as it sounds, I appreciate you sharing your story with me. In a weird way, it's somewhat comforting. Maybe the knowledge is helping me understand what has happened with my brother.. But thank you.
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the white rose
lop guest
User ID: 31991
01-31-2013 03:19 AM

 



Post: #20
What dies first.. the mind or the body?
Jesus's real message,the body neither lives nor dies
To All, Death, what seems to be unfair is just your finite understanding of the infinite.The one known to you as Jesus told us to seek the truth and the truth will set you free,by seeking you earn salvation.Here are some truths I have found by my seeking.

Will which is the ability to choose to do a thing is the most important force in the Universe of Universes.When The First Source and center,The Father,The Thought and The Second Source and center,The Son,The Word have an individual collaboration and actualization of WILL,There Freewill,a co-creative creation comes into being.Will alone creates Spirit Sons, Paradise Creator Sons of the order of Michael,our Local Universe Son is Michael of Nebadon who Incarnated as Esu Immanuel known to most as Jesus

.In order allow us to use our soul/mind (HUE MAN =LIGHT MAN)being to overcome the adversary,which is our ego entity of material self-hood,and achieve a Spiritual birthing without the benefit of physical evidence.This being able to have the wholehearted faith and trust of "a little child"in your unseen Spiritual Father.Until AT ONE MENT of Will of the ascending HUE MAN the soul is a seed that needs to be planted in the soil of desire to know your Heavenly Father,when the individual's soul/mind overcomes ego of self and attains AT ONE MENT of WILL and becomes one with the indwelling Father Fragment that being realizes its IMMORTALITY.Esu Immanuel(JESUS) left nothing behind of Himself to allow us the privilege of becoming "AGONDONTERS"( ones who can attain without proof of seeing),to be an agondonter is a most cherished and wonderful achievement!Esu Immanul(JESUS)left nothing behind (no writings,no art,no relic of any kind)for another reason,He did not want there to be anything left to start a religion or cult around His Person rather than His teachings. Saul of Tarsus A.K.A. Paul a pharisee composed the new testament ( hijacking the early followers of Esu's teachings)and turned the movement right back into the blood cult of the HEBREW RABBIS using the MURDERED Esu Immanuel(JESUS)as the SACRIFICE!

I do however now have proof!I know by personal experience that paragraph 4 on page 1229 of "THE URANTIA BOOK" is the absolute, undeniable TRUTH and if that is TRUTH then the whole book is the TRUTH!

Here is what I experienced. On June 28,1984 while working in my small plant nursery pulling weeds,I was attacked by a swarm of very tiny mosquitoes. They were the size of gnats and did not cause itchy bites,so I kept working.Went to bed and woke up the next morning so sick I could not move I was immobilized.I did not leave my bed for seven days and nights,did not eat or drink or go to toilet.Fever so bad covers on one minute off the next for seven days.Then on July 5, 1984 a few minutes before midnight I mustered up enough strength to get to the bathroom and take my temperature.I saw myself in mirror for first time in a week.I looked like DEATH WARMED OVER!My temperature was 104.5,I looked in the mirror then I looked at the thermometer then back in the mirror and then realized I was close to death.I said to myself well I guess this is it I am heading into the UNKNOWN!I laughed at the face of death!I got back into bed and thought what if my next breath is my last.It was, I had this thought,this prayer if you will that It is my WILL that THY WILL be done MY FATHER(a positive affirmation of WILL)^This is the "AT ONE MENT OF WILL wholehearted faith and trust in the unseen,the trust of a little child. At this moment time stood still,I turned to my right and said to my wife Laurie I am dieing I love you good bye.I then turned to my left and saw my clock tick to midnight,at this moment of non-time I felt myself vacate my body,it started at the tips of my toes and whooshed up my body when it reached my heart and brain I departed through the top of my head. Now all matter has faded away and I find myself as a little tiny light all alone in the darkness until I saw coming up from my right and from what seemed to be BELOW another light and it approached me and came to my side. I looked up and I saw another light a much much more brilliant and powerful light being on the other side of the portal,I knew that was my CREATOR FATHER and as I tried to reach for His helping hand the other being of light put up this barrier between us it was everything I ever did that hurt someone my sins if you will.I looked and saw my CREATOR FATHER still reaching for me even with all the error and s.i.n.(stuck in negativity)I committed.I turned to the being who came up from below and said be gone I go with my Heavenly Father and with that the EVIL PRINCE OF DARKNESS departed back to the pit of DARKNESS he left screaming in defeat !

I then took part in a seven hour debate with my CREATOR over going directly to heaven with Him. He said what of your wife and children,I said they will be all right because they have You.He said what of your business and all your projects and art,I said they mean nothing now that I am in your presence.Then My CREATOR said because you were able to have the faith and trust of a little child and achieve AT ONE MENT OF WILL and give birth to your seed soul I want you to go back into the Firmament back to the density of matter and tell them ALL,so I had to relent.It was His plan that I come back and tell you all!I awoke with my head still looking at the clock as it turned to seven.

The Creator Son,Paradise Son The MICHAEL OF NEBADON and His bestowal personification in incarnation ESU IMMANUEL are REAL and always here for all who so choose of your own FREEWILL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fear is the opposite of Faith HAVE NO FEAR LEARN THE TRUTH BY SEEKING AND HELP YOUR FELLOWS BY PASSING IT ON FREELY [link to http://www.urantia.org] THE BODY NEITHER LIVES NOR DIES THE SOUL/MIND HUE MAN LIGHT MAN LIVES AND IS IMMORTAL,THE LIGHT BODY OF THE DENSITY SIMULATES LIFE!!!

the white rose
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 148576
01-31-2013 03:27 AM

 



Post: #21
What dies first.. the mind or the body?
seasnake  Wrote: (01-30-2013 11:36 PM)
I had a 18 year old house cat die a couple years back where her body finally just gave out on her. I held her and then rested beside her as she slowly went through death. She must have had small strokes along the way as her heart would falter and then her breathing would weaken and become lighter and farther between after each time. Her mind was active as I kept testing her by calling her name and moving my finger so she could reachout and paw it. This is where it becomes strange though, her heart finally gave out and her breathing came to a stop but mentally she was still alert for close to around 20 minutes after. No heart beat at all and you could tell the changes in her body, the stiffening and everything, but she still responded to her name, still would follow my finger, still gave signs she was still there. Now you may try and call that twitching or whatever but twitching does not follow a finger, twitching does not turn a head to you when a name is called. Her body had died and somehow she hung to her sentient control of her completely stopped heart body up to 20 minutes after.
Cat's are the exception. Everyone knows they have nine lives. chuckle
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