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**ronin21**

? Wrote:

DrPostman Wrote:
ĶĨĽĿŨМľŃǺŢľ Wrote:
I am not saying science vs religion like pick one or the other, I think they go hand and hand I know a lot of people reject science but those are arguments from ignorance which wont help anyone
Yep. I believe that God gave us science to better understand this universe.
God doesn't want us kept in the dark. That often seems to be many religions
job. Thankfully, not all of them, and most mainstream Christians fully accept
science and what it's taught us and brought us and consider it God given.

? Wrote:
And you still haven't answered 2 important questions? I want answers.
1- Define God. You can't prove something unless you know what you are proving.
2 - Which God? Which religion?
Do you really expect rational and understandable answers to questions
of faith? You're asking for people who believe in God to explain their feelings,
not their proof. What many of us believe in our hearts can't be explained
rationally, and I wouldn't even attempt to try. But I will celebrate your
choice to not believe. Takes all kinds to make up a world. I'm grateful
to live in a day and age where people can believe anything in most of the
nations on this planet and not be persecuted for their beliefs, or lack of them.

Mind you, harassment doesn't really equal persecution in my mind. You
can ignore minor harassment, especially on the internet.

I totally agree with that. God is something very, very personal.

My question wasn't aimed at people. My question was aimed at the OP's discussion on science can't prove God etc.

My point is - how can scientists search for something that isn't defined.

Get it?

The whole scientific process cannot begin -- without some kind of definition of what they are searching for.

So - how did they search? And did they really?

And which God were the scientists searching for? NOT who the OP worships. Which God were the scientsts searching for?

I've not gotten an answer to that yet.

Asked about 20 pages ago.

Just want to throw this out there. Correct me if im wrong. And honestly it may sound stupid because things usually sound better in my head and then im like "dang that was stupid." But first off would most of you agree that a big majority of scientists are atheists? At least most I have met are. So I can assume they would be more interested in disproving God and not proving that God is real. I mean just like two opposing views in the scientific field, they try and disprove one another. So shouldnt the people who follow religion be responsible in finding proof of God, providing the evidence God exists, and the bible is a book, doesnt 100% count as anything since no one that was alive in biblical times is still alive to attest to the claims. So thats not evidence. So if there is another way religous people can prove god then what is it? I mean scientists havent found God so for the moment they can disprove God. But other than an old old book no one can prove god. And im sure some may say that just because you havent found Him doesnt mean He doesnt exist. Well we havent found any living wooly mammoths or saber tooth tigers, but im pretty darn sure we know for a fact they are extinct. They cant hide that good. And seriously I love debate and sometimes I can get to over stepping my boundries so I do apologize if I offend anyone. Im just trying to start some thought provoking debates.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 46904 07-06-2012 01:45 PM

Dr. Professor Wrote:

As for the question about other religions, that's where your personal choice/belief comes in. If there was an earthly way to prove that the Christian God is the one true God, there'd be no need for faith, making freewill redundant. Ex: we can't CHOOSE to believe 1+1=2... it just is. We have no say in the matter.

I will say that with other religions, the underlying premise is "DO, DO, DO, DO, so that you might one day be good enough to be eternally happy."

Christianity's is "Its already been done, all that is required is that you wholly believe its been done for you by the grace of God through the sacrifices of his son (God incarnate)."... anyone that brings Christianity forward in any other way is NOT Christian and shouldn't be accepted as an example of what Christianity is about.

Once again, to accept that or not is each person's decision, I'm just relaying the message as it pertains to the discussion.

Wonderfully put.

~~I┴∀NIW∩˥˥Iʞ~~

ronin21 Wrote:

ĶĨĽĿŨМľŃǺŢľ Wrote:
LoP Guest Wrote:
So let me summarise.

After posting many terabytes of pompous waffle posing as intellectual debate we have all come to the conclusion that:

1) Some people believe that their favourite flavour of God/Religion exists and is real, whilst others do not.

2) There is no solid proof either way.

Excellent, lets leave it at that then and stop trying to convince every one else that our spiritual beliefs should be their spiritual beliefs.

Well the point I made is that you cant logically say God does not exist.

You didn't make any point. What evidence is so profound to say that it is illogical to say God doesnt exist? What because a book written thousands of years ago tells you God exists? Were you there when the first bible was ever written, how do you know its the word of God and not just some mumbo jumbo written by a bunch of men to control the masses. But I mean because mankind has proven itself so trustworthy over the thousands of years, of course it has to be true. I cant think of any better way to make people live in fear and lead a good life than to say they will go to Hell and burn for eternity if they dont accept God. I will give the bible that, it made most people lead moral, productive lives, but only because they were sheep and believed whatever was told to them. They didnt want to burn in the fires of Hell, so of course the sheeple believed. For those who take the word of a book written by MEN thousands of years ago as complete fact that proves gods existence, are just as crazy as myself and everyone else who take a scientists word for the existence of black holes, and any other scientific theories. But really its not crazy at all to take a scientists word for it because I dont have to. I can just go to a science lab. Oh but im sorry we dont have time machines yet so I guess you're are just going to have to keep taking a bunch of very old old dead men at their word because they wrote it in a book. Dont worry though give scientists a little while longer and they will probably have that time machine for ya. And I just want to say to anyone who thinks im just a godless person and im going to hell, well im not. Of course I believe in a creator, everything had to start at some point and from something. Its just I dont believe in religion or the bible. I have faith, but not in man made religion. I lead a good life, I dont steal, or hurt innocent people. I help the less fortunate at times when I can. I love my family. But I dont need an old book or any man to tell me thats how I should live my life.

OK

~~I┴∀NIW∩˥˥Iʞ~~

**Ðґℙ☺ṧ⊥мαη**

? Wrote:

I totally agree with that. God is something very, very personal.
My question wasn't aimed at people. My question was aimed at the OP's discussion on science can't prove God etc.
My point is - how can scientists search for something that isn't defined.
Get it?
The whole scientific process cannot begin -- without some kind of definition of what they are searching for.
So - how did they search? And did they really?
And which God were the scientists searching for? NOT who the OP worships. Which God were the scientsts searching for?
I've not gotten an answer to that yet.
Asked about 20 pages ago.

I don't see how science can prove or disprove God. Matters of faith
are something separate from matters of observation and data.

BTW, I know lots of scientists. Many of them are Christian, the rest
are theists of one sort or another. Only one is an atheist.

~~I┴∀NIW∩˥˥Iʞ~~

Absolute claims start as an argument from ignorance and therefore invalid.

**NEESIE**

KlLLUMINATI Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
WTF this is just another religion trolling thread. This place used to be better than this before the likes of this OP showed up.

So not having the same opinion or belief as you is now trolling?

people believe what they are most comfortable with. i thought your thread was good and thought provoking. but you will always have the trollers. They click on our threads merely to argue. goes with the territory. but thank you so much killu for the logical thread. Hugs

**NightHelix** lop guest User ID: 97796 08-13-2012 05:39 PM

LoP Guest Wrote:

WTF this is just another religion trolling thread. This place used to be better than this before the likes of this OP showed up.

Don't forget about me. Lmao

~~I┴∀NIW∩˥˥Iʞ~~

NightHelix Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
WTF this is just another religion trolling thread. This place used to be better than this before the likes of this OP showed up.

Don't forget about me.

Thats a typical argument when a person has no rebuttal.

**Ðґℙ☺ṧ⊥мαη**

Many of the scientists I know that believe in God work at St. Jude
Children's Hospital. They know in their hearts that the scientific
research they've done that have produced miracle healing for kids
is a gift from God.

**Arch Phoenix**

NightHelix Wrote:

LoP Guest Wrote:
WTF this is just another religion trolling thread. This place used to be better than this before the likes of this OP showed up.

Don't forget about me.

It was you , Mad Hatter, who wanted a religious mod and banning powers to ban the heathens from religious threads,

No,this forum has not forgotten your name.