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**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 114838 08-15-2012 08:41 PM

Quote:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

matt 17 kjv

even today at passover jewish famillies set a place for the return of elijah which will herald the return of the messiah

so i ask why did jesus lie and say john the baptist was elijah ?

**NightHelix** lop guest User ID: 97796 08-15-2012 08:44 PM

Jesus never lied.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 79866 08-15-2012 08:48 PM

LoP Guest Wrote:

Quote:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
matt 17 kjv

even today at passover jewish famillies set a place for the return of elijah which will herald the return of the messiah

so i ask why did jesus lie and say john the baptist was elijah ?

He never lied. Just as the Jews were persuaded into denying their own messiah as their own scripture said they would, they likewise denied the one crying in the wilderness.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 114838 08-15-2012 08:49 PM

NightHelix Wrote:

Jesus never lied.

it's in the bible the part i quoted above elijah hasn't returned and jesus said he had

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 4142 08-15-2012 08:50 PM

there are two possibilities:

jesus taught about reincarnation or jesus did not teach against the old testament. i think he taught about reincarnation and not all instances were successfully expunded at the council of nicea.

here is what the apologists think.

John the Baptist was in the spirit of Elijah, but not actually Elijah reincarnated.
There is, however, a little more information that might prove interesting. Elijah wore, most probably, a camel's hair girdle. "And they answered him, "He was a hairy man with a leather girdle bound about his loins." And he said, "It is Elijah the Tishbite," (2 Kings 1:8). According to the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, in reference to 2 Kings 1:8, Elijah . . .

"he wore a rough garment, either made of camels’ hair, as that of John Baptist, or of a skin, dressed with the hair on. Sir J. Chardin informs us, in a MS. note on this place, cited by Mr. Harmer, that the eastern dervishes and fakeers are clothed just as Elijah was, with a hairy garment, girded with a leathern girdle."

Concerning John the Baptist, it says in Matthew 3:4, "Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair, and a leather belt about his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey." It may be that Zecharias, who had access to the temple and things in the temple, may have acquired Elijah's camel hair garment and given it to John the Baptist to wear. This is speculation, but it is an interesting possibility.

**roadtoad** · (This post was last modified: 08-15-2012 08:55 PM by roadtoad.)

because jesus believed in reincarnation, those verses prove it.
For more on jesus's belief in reincarnation, read 'the gospel according to thomas'.

**feverpitch**

bait

**hotdog nobun**

in the passage quoted, jesus didnt say j the b was elijah, the disciples assume it in their own minds.

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 4142 08-15-2012 08:57 PM

we all can read and form our own conclusions.

well, most of us.

**pingu** · (This post was last modified: 08-15-2012 09:04 PM by pingu.)

If you are brought up in a family that indoctrinated and coerced your beleif in a religion....Then surely if you were truly intelligent you would question your beleif and would have fostered pure logical doubt just by that single fact alone....?

Religious people question thine self.

**Ahriman**

When you get into the meat and potatos of mythology what you'll find is they are all the same elements described in slightly different ways in different stories, but essentially the 'memes' remain consistant regardless of the shell they are in.

Anon

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 113877 08-15-2012 09:10 PM

reincarnation[/align]

**roadtoad**

elias, not elijah

**sia**

john the baptist was elijah just like ahriman might be. chuckle

**LoP Guest** lop guest User ID: 113877 08-16-2012 02:18 AM

reincarnation