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Existence Loading
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 198896
01-02-2018 08:34 PM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #1
Existence Loading
Advertisement
Medium ALICE Combat Field Pack Introduction and Playlist



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5o5gcAz...mD&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...MAcHJ0sNmD

This is my "urban assault Medium ALICE," that makes use of the DEI 1609 Packframe. This pack frame benefits from some pretty good tension applied to the LC-2 GEN II Waist Belt Attachment Strap. This allows the Waist Pad portion of the belt to be suspended in the vertical plane, so that it stays off of the corner of the pack frame for excellent comfort. The makeshift version of Waist belt attachment I have done using just 1 inch webbing works fine too, only it is more loose, with very minor-to-unnoticeable discomfort with less than 45 lbs. The Waist Belt hasn't shown signs of breaking or wearing out yet, though the higher tension on the webbing and stitching is just-obvious. The USGI Waist Belt attachment method works the best so far.

The pack is a 2005 contract-date item, and items matched to it are similarly dated (replaced the brown strap with a matched green one from ebay - poindexter114, I believe - trying to find a source for various sizes of elastic webbing retainers right now).

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2018 03:01 PM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
01-04-2018 08:17 AM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #2
RE: Existence Loading
Full Warm-Season Existence Load Medium ALICE Pack: Wilderness



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQTEDPI93Zg

Philosophy

The use of the LC-2 pack frame immediately gives the Medium ALICE Combat Field Pack a "field" or "wilderness" feel carrying it around, though this configuration carries very nicely for a framed ruck. In comparison, my 35 lbs or less DEI 1609 Pack Frame based Medium ALICE Packs feel much more "urban" and "athletic," only the frame-less Medium ALICE bettering those systems in regards athletic feel. The LC-2 Pack Frame does show itself to be, in my opinion, the best overall military pack frame for the ALICE system, though my opinion is relatively unqualified for some uses of the ALICE system, for example in regards airborne operations. The LC-2 frame allows for gear carriage within the confines of the frame itself, adding to the range of gear that is immediately available for use without having to open up the main compartment of the pack, including such items as wet weather poncho (a Medium ALICE preference for me), M-18 Smoke Grenade, the angle-head flashlight, SAM Splint, leather gloves, and 3L CamelBak (a Large ALICE experiment for me, when the butt pack is installed onto the Large ALICE).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBcsLJoNb9o

This particular load plan is a bit beyond a soldier-basic load-weight-range for a ruck (in some respects at least), thus it is a bit heavy at 45 lbs (38.83 lbs measured, plus 6 pounds of water added before the video; best not to dry your plastic canteens on the radiator, lest they develop a leak). Another option would be to forgo the sleeping bag in favor of the warm-weather-traditional inflatable ground pad. There are also items on this ruck-setup that transfer over to ALICE system load-bearing equipment, that includes an M-17 Protective Mask Carrier, when the pack is carried in full military mode, and then there is other equipment which might be mostly dropped from the load-plan for soldier-basic carry, many of the items being either squad or platoon carry-items. I can envision the weight of this setup dropping to significantly less than its present 45 lbs, with equivalent loss of bulk, but then at least three rifle magazines and at least one smoke grenade would be added if possible.

Optional items will be marked with a "savings" designation, with a weight for the item listed if possible.

Mutable Load List: 44.8 LBS

Main Compartment
1 each, Size 2 ALICE Pack Waterproof Liner
1 each, M-1A1 Waterproof DriBag (radio pouch)
1 each, Classification Folder (radio pouch, in DriBag)
1 each, M-3 Medic Bag (top of main compartment)
1 each, size-medium DriSak (bottom of main compartment, inside liner, lumbar)

.. building ..

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2018 10:49 AM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
01-11-2018 08:23 AM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #3
RE: Existence Loading
Early 21st Century Large Alice Pack: US Part Completely Period-Correct



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0TaP_d8j_g

This is a "like-ably" fashion-packed Large ALICE Combat Field Pack of 2005-vintage (an initial mock-up) with basic gear packed, out on gear-shakedown stroll, and with all 2005/2006 US components (the dated ones); the rest are also correct for the period. The CamelBak is an older 100 oz model with the older tube-connection technology (now replaced with a newer reservoir from a USMC CamelBak I will try out on the Large ALICE later, with no leaky tube); it is interesting how it seems to have been designed to fit the ALICE System, and the Rothco Butt Pack (brand new) also fits the system where a real US Butt Pack would have sometimes resided back in the day (at least by likely design). Notice how the canteens tuck into place "aerodynamically," without being a detriment to forward/backward load-balancing.

This load would be a 41 lb setup, if the canteens were filled with 6 lbs (3 qts) of water, so this is just 35 lbs, and the CamelBak holds about 2.5 L and isn't yet leaking in the video. Inside the ruck is a camp-clothing change, poncho liner, and wet weather poncho; plus other gear, including central-outer-pouched e-tool w/vinyl carrier and 2 MRE's in the other outer pouches. This setup carries about as Cadillac smooth as any ruck I've ever rucked. The CamelBak does a nice job of support-following the contour of the spin, making it difficult to discern any specific pressure from the waist belt, at this load-weight anyway. So far there is none of the weighing back on the torso while carry this ruck, even up a long flight of icy stairs.

Filling the CamelBak with water while it is installed on the pack frame is about as easy as filling when just wearing it and then ponying up to the water buffalo with it held under the spout. The pack tends to lay on its back so that the fill-port on the CamelBak levels quite nicely, and the handle helps to expand the reservoir enough to fill it with about 2.5 L of water. The Large ALICE Pack can be removed from the frame easily enough to allow the CamelBak to be fairly quickly removed for refill at a water-source, if you can't use a canteen to fill the reservoir.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2018 01:55 PM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
01-12-2018 11:17 AM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #4
RE: Existence Loading
OD Green Large ALICE Pack w/Woodland Camouflage US Butt Pack and CamelBak



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RU3HFIeFvg

Though it might be argued that Large ALICE is Pepsi to Medium ALICE Coca-Cola, Large ALICE constitutes its own study in research-testing-insightful product development.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
01-13-2018 01:27 PM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #5
RE: Existence Loading
Wiggy's Radial Compression Stuff Sack on the Medium ALICE Pack



https://youtu.be/ivV1qRVUllc

This is one way to include a Wiggy's Desert Sleeping Bag with a Medium ALICE Combat Field Pack. It is best to attach the center attachment strap of the stuff sack to the LC-2 Pack Frame first, to initially secure the added load to the frame, in contact with the bottom of the rucksack, and to balance the load left or right as needed by placing the attachment strap to the left or right of the vertical metal band on the frame. The other two attachment straps are then run up through the pack frame and then through the webbing hangers on the bottom of the ruck, just taut enough to further secure the load without placing undue stress on the ruck's webbing hangers.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
01-14-2018 07:51 AM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #6
RE: Existence Loading
Camelbak Draining Procedure Rehearsal



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGQyWueP804

Drained about 5.7 lbs of water that the CamelBak would accept when filled, about 85 oz out of a possible 100; I used 1 qt canteen volume to measure the fill, with about 11 oz of water left in the last canteen (32 oz or 2 lbs of water per qt; "a pint is a pound").

Rehearsal of the draining procedure for a CamelBak installed onto a Large ALICE Pack Frame. There is about 1 lb of unnecessary gear that I stuffed into the lower/sides of the ruck to bulge it out too tight. I have since removed the items and everything fell back into good-looking place. It pays to think in terms of filling the volume of the pack, rather than stuffing it tight to the point your 2 qt canteen cover might break. I am now looking at a 40 lb ruck that will accept 11+ lbs of water and maybe 3 additional pounds of butt pack, with some items transferred from M-3 Medic Bag to butt pack, further maintaining a fashionable appearance that ducks under the branches well enough, even with a machete attached.

The cheap machete sheath works well with the ruck, and better as the ruck achieves about optimum volume-fill; with lower volume the machete sheath moves up and down to allow the ruck the sit upright without much worry of sheath damage, and it can be lowered again for ruck carry, to allow for ducking under tree branches without much worry.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2018 08:05 AM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
01-21-2018 05:35 PM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #7
RE: Existence Loading
The Medium ALICE Pack of the Seventies



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4mOhvuPQJ0



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN_fGHtBiqE

By and throughout the eighties, the design was perfected for combat use about as much as possible, but there were design developments of the system during the seventies, some quite subtle and others that were more evolutionary in nature.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
01-21-2018 05:46 PM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #8
RE: Existence Loading

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2018 05:18 PM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
01-26-2018 04:01 AM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #9
RE: Existence Loading
U.S. MX-991/U Angled Head Flashlight, Olive Drab Body

http://fultonindoh.com/product-categorie...-military/

Plain Cardboard Packaging Box
Quote:N47-2-IB

Impact Resistant Plastic Flashlight Body (Medium Olive Drab Shade)
Quote:US
MX-991/U

Quote:FULTON
MADE IN U.S.A.

This is an all-round useful military flashlight that can light table-tops (maps), tent interiors (hanging via hanger ring, or clipped in-place), helicopter landing areas (area lighting, wind-direction indicating, and colored approach-signal - should be tactical-bright enough in all three cases), and other camp/signal uses. The colored lenses in the version I have are "to US military standard" in appearance, in other words, the red lens does throw a useful but clearly red spot of light, that clearly looks red, not "orangy," for reduced intensity of light that does not throw as far as white or green light, and which does not reduce night vision or attract bugs (green light does not attract bugs, but blue or white light does); outside, I try to use my hand to further hide the light-source on any torch-type light I might be using, minimizing the likelihood of detection out-to-distance even further. The lens bezel diameter is big enough for effective signaling out to considerable-enough distance, but the light isn't super bright like so many of the more modern, 60 lumen plus, tactical lights are (interior/cave MOUT-lights mostly).

I suspect the flashlight scene in Oliver Stone's Platoon highlights one use for this style of military flashlight under tactical circumstances, the light being bright enough for the purpose, but not so bright as to highlight itself compared with interior lighting. My experience with these lights is more "tactical camp use" in the red-lens sense of the word; you use the light when you really need to use it - and when it is safe to use it - and then you shut it off and stow it back in your gear in the location you expect to find it later. I will have to review the scene again, because it might be another example of movies showing you the wrong method, as there is the on-off button-switch that is normally used for signalling to take into consideration "protocol-wise" (maybe not ideally located for the purpose; movie lighting priorities might be influencing "protocol").

The design of the thing is "robust but cheap" in the sense that it is simple the way military equipment tends to be, but also "general purpose heavy duty," using the right materials to the degree necessary. The switch is simple, black-oxide-finished, "austere-robust-grade" stamped steel (just thick enough stampings), with plastic side-protectors for the sliding on-off switch; the clip and fold-away hanger are similar-grade steel (clip has generally robust springiness). There is the full-on on-switch position, all the way forward towards the angled head, and then there is the signal position, which is half-forward and only allows the light to switch on when a signal button-switch, just forward of the slider switch is depressed.

There are two sets of screw-on-off bezel-compartments on either end of the plastic flashlight body. The straight end has one for storing colored light-filtering lenses, and the other one opens the battery compartment and the plastic jig that contains the spare bulb. The angled end of the flashlight body has a bezel-compartment for installing a colored lens filter, and the other bezel unscrews to allow access to the working-bulb assembly. The bezels are rubber-ring-sealed to keep water out of the flashlight, and the design is simple enough to likely survive battery-corrosion mess (maybe with some maintenance steps).

Weight = 1.03 lbs w/Batteries.
Batteries = D Cell, 2 each - for military, BA-30.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2018 03:33 AM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
02-10-2018 04:31 PM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #10
RE: Existence Loading
Infantry Medium ALICE Load at 37 LBS



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD1TZE_oK_0

This load-out is designed to be combined with the ALICE System belt-based Load Bearing Equipment with 2 single qt canteens, canteen cup, and canteen cup stand/stove. This then becomes an infantry style system with 1 gal of water carrying capacity and full camp-mess capability (USGI mess/survival kit inside M-3 Medic Bag in the top of the main compartment w/Tabasco Sauce). This also allows for either the use of iodine-based water purification tablets (I'm kitted for at least 6 days; "a pill per pint/pound"), or for the boiling of water (at least 3 minutes at a rolling boil). The weapon cleaning kit on the rifle-side of the ruck can be swapped out for the 1 qt canteen/cup/stand when I am not using the load bearing gear; the 1 qt canteen on the outside of the Medium ALICE Pack is not as gracefully accommodated as it is on the Large ALICE Pack, but it is accommodated by the system well enough (stable and quiet); the US 2 qt Canteen pictured is "preferred" (perfectly accommodated) by the Medium ALICE, versus two external single quart canteens. This pack weighed in at 36.5 lbs, so, with the addition of the 1 qt canteen, it should still weigh less than 39 pounds (12" Machete weighs 1 lb). Some of the items on this rather "luxury" kit "naturally" transfer over to load bearing gear too, which for me includes the M-17 Protective Mask Carrier as "haversack factor" (L4 Windshirt/Compass/Map/BrknDwnMRE/electrical tape/Type 1A Cord).

The kit carries great, as the LC-2 Pack Frame and waist belt combination is easy to set-up satisfactorily (high tension is difficult, but the system works in synergistic fashion), and the poncho, flashlight, and Splint are simply not noticed (poncho just adds comfort some). The waist LC-2/GEN I Waist Belt requires some odd maneuvers with the off-side hand grabbing the webbing while the same-side hand works the ladder-locking system, but it locks into place very reliably; and the older style plastic buckle seems to work with more easy when the tension is locked into adjustment (reputation for breaking on occasion, at temps below -30degF). This is my training Medium ALICE in M-81 Woodland Camouflage (1987 contract date), as it and the frame are "transitional builds, with off-color components compared with my two deployment M-81 Medium ALICE Packs (1988 contract dates on the packs, and 1983-1987 or 1989 for the frame-assemblies), which are the designed colors everywhere (1989 frame is black, with all 1989 gear, all made by the same contractor).

One issue that came up with the GEN I Waist Belt is the Waist Belt Attachment Strap, with its rather large wedge-shaped clamping setup. I decided to raise up my wet weather poncho a bit so it will clear that assembly, just in case the poncho causes the clamp to pop loose. It might not even be a real issue, but that is what the extra black band is for on the poncho.

The USGI E-Tool w/Vinyl E-Tool Carrier is inside the center-outer pack pouch, with the ALICE Clips facing away from the main compartment, a too-perfect fit which the Large ALICE accommodates in improved fashion (more convenient to remove the assembly from the pouch). The vinyl carrier is carried so that the vent holes face into the pack main compartment, minimizing rainwater infiltration into the e-tool. Another thing I did with the vinyl e-tool cover is remove the ALICE Clips to minimize the likelihood that an ALICE Clip might wear a hole in the pack cloth of the outer pouch that contains the e-tool and carrier; I just placed them on the hanger webbing up underneath the pack lid, just in case I might need to wear the e-tool on my load-bearing gear.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2018 07:23 AM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
02-25-2018 08:39 PM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #11
reporter RE: Existence Loading
ALICE Afternoon Gossip Live: 25 Feb 2018

Today I will be discussing the latest ALICE System wisdom I have gleaned from my ALICE Combat Field Pack collection, as well as the philosophy of use that seems inherent in the system, along with some of my own perceived philosophy of use contributions to the system.

Last night I decided to get my 1980 contract-date "Korea Olive" Medium ALICE Pack out (on video in an above post) and fit it to an od-green-painted LC-2 ALICE Pack Frame (early 00's), as I had assembled a nice color-matched hiking setup, with a nineties era 2 quart canteen and matching First Aid/Compass Pouch of light olive shade. I discovered that this eighties-style Medium ALICE was very likely assembled to fit the LC-1 ALICE Pack Frame; the pack rides a bit higher on the pack-frame than does my 1987-contract-dated M-81 Camouflage Medium ALICE Pack, by about an inch, and there is some open space between pack cloth and frame versus the camo pack which installs to geometric perfection onto the LC-2 Pack Frame. The altered fitment of the 1980 ALICE Pack necessitated the use of my own "air borne style" method of attaching the lower attachment straps of the pack to the frame. I still make sure to wrap the strap to the outside of the pack frame immediately, to avoid excess stress on the stitching, and then make a single loop around the frame tubing at the popular location, before feeding the strap into the buckle and securing until just taut enough for a decent hold (not tight; if you hear threads popping anywhere on an ALICE pack, damage is being done somewhere, and the pack will start to look "kinda sloppy for some reason"). I might do the "airborne" double-loop around the frame tubing later. The pack lid on the 1980 Medium ALICE does seem a bit smaller too, but nicely proportioned for the "professional look."

The seventies style Medium ALICE Pack seems to be similarly proportioned to fit an LC-1 Pack Frame, and they do fit onto my Rothco LC-1 ALICE Pack Frame almost perfectly (the Rothco Shoulder Straps and Waist Belt that come with the frame are acceptable items for lighter load, general purpose use, engineered and precision made if not "deployable" heavy duty). The Rothco frame is not as rugged as an actual USGI item, but I like it for general use, as it is well assembled and precision made. The Rothco frame has rubber stoppers on the bottom of the frame-tubes, so it will not - despite being careful at least - damage floors at school or wherever, versus the heavy-duty-stoppered USGI item which will tend to scratch at flooring no matter how careful you are (barracks ok, but not school or whatever). The large oval loops that accept the waist belt will scratch if they contact flooring; they seem designed to contact the ground, protecting the waist pad assembly, which should be tight-enough-installed, relative to pack weight, to keep them from pressuring the hips (never noticed this issue myself, at less than 45 lbs, back in the day either; the LC-2 frame works quite well on me at 6 ft tall). I prefer a tight ALICE waist belt installation on my DEI 1609 Pack Frames, but the LC-2 just needs enough for proper pad-wrapped-around-the-waist-a-bit suspension; it is a very good system when not loaded too heavy. The LC-2 Waist Belts seem to be very carefully designed for comfort and for keeping the pack frame parts - including oval loops - off of you.

Military Field-Gear Systems

One of the cool things about ALICE is that it is a carefully designed system that was painstakingly developed over time. This means that a complete system of gear can be acquired with relative ease and with minimal monetary expenditure, given the availability of military surplus equipment. Most people are accustomed to what I call “cool bag collecting” in that a good number of startup manufacturers just sell cool items that they might not be selling in five years, and with no system-related items for the “cool, high-speed bag” or whatever. I have a number of these bags, and I find the smaller ones to be useful and interesting enough, as they can be easily adapted for different uses, but a complete ruck-based equipment system can be very costly and might not even work that well for the long-term, notwithstanding the learning curve factor. A military-developed system can help one to bypass many of those issues because the military has already sweated out the development of the system as well as the related learning curve associated with regular use of the gear, in varying field-environments. ALICE just happens to be one such system. In Alaska, I’ve noticed, the British military gear system has found a bit of a niche in regards popular use; the British refer to their favored military backpack as Bergen, and once it is used and favored, the rest of the military gear system related to that pack also tends to be used to at least some degree (some items of course likely don't translate to US use, or even export over here).

Getting the Most Out of a Military Field Gear System

These days, whenever I acquire a piece of military surplus gear, I relate it to whatever other items I have from the gear system that associates the two or more items I now have. I have not yet encountered a lasting need to modify any ALICE Gear, but I have run into a few defective items that will need to be repaired. As far as the ALICE system goes, most modifications to the system are ruinous to the original intent that precipitated the development of the system. I have discovered that you can learn about “original intent” and “likely use” of a system like this over the course of four or five casual hobbyist years, and likely keep right on learning even more efficiently once you get “cognitively on top of” the unconscious trial-and-error going on in learning this way. I always resist any temptation to modify gear, knowing that I am likely to learn the “real solution” to any perceived problem at some point. Good gear was after-all designed by capable and competent people.

My Learning Curve

Now, with the ALICE Packs, I instinctually decided to explore the Medium ALICE Pack first, because I was introduced to it during my initial-entry training into US military service back in 1986, in frameless form, and I thought it was a “cool little pack” and it didn’t get in the way out in the field or on the tank trails. It was a pack that accommodated athletic use during infantry-tactical rolling and jumping around, with maybe 15 pounds of training field-gear inside of it, such as rain gear, MRE, and the like. Then after it was turned in, I never saw another Medium ALICE Pack again, and was barely cognizant of the fact as I adapted to the Large ALICE Packs issued at my various duty stations over the years, a pack that didn’t cause me any problems and which I took for granted: “This or better will always be around.” I didn’t in-depth explore the thing and only recently have started exploring the Large ALICE Pack, learning more efficiently so far than I did with the Medium ALICE Pack, and approaching it from the perspective of being “a bigger, and maybe better Medium ALICE Pack,” so I am still playing with summer gear all winter long.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2018 10:22 PM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
03-08-2018 03:55 AM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #12
RE: Existence Loading
1980 Medium ALICE Pack on LC-2 Pack Frame



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbuQOB05yOs

The earlier packs are a bit smaller than the ones made after the late eighties. I will have to check some of my mid-eighties packs to see if they might have been updated for LC-2 Pack Frame Mounting. This on mounts at the lower attachment points about an inch higher than my M-81 Camouflage Medium ALICE Packs (1987/88), and has a smaller pack lid.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
03-20-2018 12:48 AM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #13
RE: Existence Loading
S.W.I - U.S.A Large ALICE Type Backpack in Central American Camouflage

This is a recommendable combination for camping. The pack cloth is waterproof, so a new and properly employed 4 mil can-liner should work fine keeping your gear dry for a camping trip. The method shown in this video of attaching the lower-attachment-point straps of the pack to the frame is the method I recommend for all Large ALICE installations onto an LC-1 or an LC-2 Pack Frame (including "types"); just take the webbing immediately to the outside of the frame tubing, on the pack side of the frame, and then it wrap around the tubing twice through the triangular opening before attaching the webbing to the ladder-locking buckle (I draw the buckle right up to the wrapped webbing). The Large ALICE seems to be designed for this method of installation, webbing/stitching-orientation-wise, for maximum gear-longevity under stress. The Medium ALICE Packs are more difficult, the earlier ones being design-optimized for LC-1 Frame installation, using the round "bunny hole" method, but then require a switch to the Large ALICE method for the LC-2 Frame installation, versus the Medium ALICE Packs which were contracted 1987 and later, that can be installed onto the LC-1 and the LC-2 Frames using the geometrically optimized method or the Large ALICE method (still a bit stressful of the webbing-attachment-stitching on the pack).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=646AaaQPQ18

I just put together a late eighties Large ALICE Pack using period-correct used-condition items and weighed it at 6.95 LBS with a 2 quart canteen carrier and GP Strap, Size 3 ALICE Pack Liner, and 2-each Size 1 ALICE Pack Liners. The Pack Frame is the one I bought used and very cheap and which had been brush-painted black after it was stood on and otherwise tube-bent into an ergonomic shape that brings the pack-load maybe an inch closer to the back; the frame is still rock solid, though I cannot recommend that others do the same (must have been done back in the take US gear for granted day).

For the above video, I fashion-loaded the pack rather "anorexic" to see how the pack would feel hanging down a bit. The LC-1/2 Pack Frame lends a uniquely athletic feel to the Large ALICE (or Medium), where you are likely to forget some what you are carrying (if you are good at loading it) because nothing from the main portion of the pack itself touches you most of the time, so you can be swinging some bulk around pretty good, or you can have it hang down some with a light load with no "dragging" contact with the buttocks or thighs.

The "bunny goes around the tree, disappears into the matrix (triangle), comes out of its hole, and then buckles in for the ride" method works ok for the large ALICE Pack installation onto the LC-1/2 Frames; any additional stress on the attachment stitching is minimal, except maybe for airborne operation use which I imagine requires specific training even to ensure proper installation of the pack to the frame. I am going to switch my Large ALICE's to the "bunny goes twice around the tree and then buckles in" method. The Large ALICE Pack design is quite the geometric study though, even when approaching the study from a lower attachment perspective; just attach the buckle till it's snug with the webbing wrapped around the tube and the thing loads normally with minimal strain of the system caused by any specific attachment modus operandi (I never pull too hard on webbing anyway - just snug it enough for stability and hold-enough).

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2018 02:01 AM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
03-20-2018 03:22 AM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #14
RE: Existence Loading
D.E.I. 1609 Pack Frame

I just decided to remove the LC-2 Pack Frame from my 1980 Medium ALICE Pack and go frame-less, only to load the thing right up to a compact 22 LBS, which I decided warranted a pack frame anyway, so I grabbed my black DEI 1609 and installed that, only to discover a slight loss in pack volume, so now I consider, even more, that my 1609 pack frames are go-to's for Assault ALICE Pack Mode, and the final result was that the pack-weight was identical to the frame-less pack anyway, minus a single 1.25 LB item.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2018 03:24 AM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 1337
03-24-2018 09:14 PM

Posts: 1,252



Post: #15
RE: Existence Loading
Eighties-Configured Medium ALICE Combat Field Pack



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xnxgwIYU1U

This is my 1984 contract-dated "dark khaki shaded" od green Medium ALICE Pack (I have a 1976 version in the same color), here configured using a 1987-manufactured (tag labeled 1987) LC-2 ALICE Pack Frame anodized in od green and black - and one unfinished metal pack-support strap. The Waist Belt is an LC-2, GEN I version with the quick-release plastic buckle (just hit it with the thumb), and the quick-release Shoulder Straps are period-correct LC-2 versions. The webbing-adjuster-cam on one of them broke due to a complete lack of packing material used in shipping a complete pack frame (for one of my M-81 Medium ALICE Packs), and then someone slammed the box down prior to finger-poking a hole in the box for inspection purposes (UPS this time; USPS regularly with the finger-poke); it is shown here though, as a quality but light-weight metal casting. There are two other period-correct shades of nylon happening here, one "jungle shade," like my 1980 contract-dated Medium ALICE, and one about a shade darker than the pack itself. The US M-16A1 Weapon Cleaning Kit Pouch is on "rifle side," and the US 2 Quart Canteen with M1 NBC Canteen Drinking Cap is on the other side; a typical soldier in the mid-eighties would have carried 2 each of the US 1 Quart Canteens, with Canteen Cup, on a US Web Belt and Suspenders based Load Bearing Equipment.

The length of the ruck, and/or bottom attachment webbing, looks to have been lengthened a little by 1984, versus my 1980 version, and this allows my favored attachment method for the lower attachment straps to be used, but it is still more difficult than with my woodland camo packs. For this video, I used the attachment method most are likely used to (especially airborne folk), and it is a bit easier to apply than my method on this pack, which still has to be small enough for the assault pack folding features to be used.


"No need to fear the reaper, when you've got fashion sense."

- Cat Sewing (Singular Impulse)


(735 A.P.E.)

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2018 03:25 AM by 1110.00.) Quote this message in a reply
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