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I Think I figured out my car problem... But now to find someone to help me check it
The Ghost Of LOP
Registered User
User ID: 216582
06-15-2019 03:53 AM

Posts: 21,606



Post: #1
I Think I figured out my car problem... But now to find someone to help me check it
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This has been a hot topic of late, as more and more older Subaru Legacies reach high mileage and drivetrain wear becomes a factor. One of the most common problems in AWD 4EAT automatic transmission equipped cars is the dreaded "torque-bind".

The most common symptoms of this problem are a shudder throughout the whole car, but more pronounced beneath the seat, when accelerating in a low-speed turn. The shudder will stop if power is removed and disappears when speed goes beyond the threshold of most tires or the wheels are straightened out.

Recently i've found out that the early model Legacies don't actually have the wear problems listed below, but frequently have a malfunctioning solenoid in the same area that causes pressure problems and very similar symptoms. Replacing this should fix the problems in pre-95 models.

The solution to the problem is relatively simple and comprehensive but first you should know what causes this problem.

The evolution of the problem and the solution were shown to me by a Master Technician at Subaru of Ogden in Ogden, Utah.

In the rear of the transmission is a watermelon sized aluminum housing that contains several valves, bushings and seals. The rear driveshaft that couples with the rear differential. The problem occurs in here, and the replacement of this cures it.

Inside of the housing the rear shaft spins and has teflon bushings and fluid seals for the AWD system. This is where much of the rear power is transferred. The problem occurs when these bushings wear against the aluminum. For some reason Subaru, or the transmission manufacturers, decided not to have a bearing or liner in lieu of using the housing itself as the wear surface.

This is where the problem and solution lies.

The bushings and seals wear the aluminum down after time. This allows the pressurized ATF to leak from one chamber to the next. The torque meant to be transferred to the rear ends up being greatly reduced and the fluid transaction causes the shuddering.

Thankfully the fix is relatively inexpensive and doesn't require the transmission to be removed.

At Subaru of Ogden i got to see a 95+ Legacy in the midst of this operation. The rear driveshaft and exhaust rear of the Catalytic Convertor have to be removed and the rear transmission housing needs to be removed.

The housing is completely replaced with a new one. New internal components are included and apparently the bushings and seals on the driveshaft are also replaced. The most important piece of the solution is the addition of a steel liner to protect the aluminum housing against wear. This should ensure that this problem doesn't occur for the remaining life of the car.

The procedure was quoted as $750 by Subaru of Ogden.


http://legacycentral.org/library/torquebind.htm

Serving Quality Threads since 2014
Thanks to PopEye for the suggestion
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2019 04:06 AM by The Ghost Of LOP.) Quote this message in a reply
The Ghost Of LOP
Registered User
User ID: 216582
06-15-2019 03:56 AM

Posts: 21,606



Post: #2
RE: OK I think this is my Car Problem with the Subaru ... IT FITS THE ISSUE
Now just to get someone that knows what they are doing to double check this and fix it.


I don't know why the places I have taken it two have not done this.

They are wanting to replace the entire transmission or the differential.

But I know it was something along this line.

Serving Quality Threads since 2014
Thanks to PopEye for the suggestion
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The Ghost Of LOP
Registered User
User ID: 216582
06-15-2019 04:14 AM

Posts: 21,606



Post: #3
RE: I Think I figured out my car problem... But now to find someone to help me check it
So in other fancy words

it is probably just my Torque Converter ?

Serving Quality Threads since 2014
Thanks to PopEye for the suggestion
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 504339
06-15-2019 05:09 AM

 



Post: #4
RE: I Think I figured out my car problem... But now to find someone to help me check it
The Ghost Of LOP  Wrote: (06-15-2019 04:14 AM)
So in other fancy words

it is probably just my Torque Converter ?

That thing you just posted States the housing cover gets worn on the inside enough to cause fluid leak ..which screws up the pressure and likely gets into places it shouldn't. That last part is speculation...maybe it just leaks out into nothing important.

Anyway. If you wanted to test the theory just replace the cover with the new fancy one..or even a regular one( it should last awhile right?) Unless the price is close enough then get the fancy one.. Assuming nothing internal is damaged..seals bearings etc...Then it should solve the problem right away. See if you can easily access and remove the housing, sounded like you have to remove part of exhaust and drivetrain. Take a look. Start soaking those bolts in pb blaster everyday day.

Im thinking about buying a newer legacy. Do you know any tips/problems about the newer legacy?
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 504339
06-15-2019 05:14 AM

 



Post: #5
RE: I Think I figured out my car problem... But now to find someone to help me check it
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-15-2019 05:09 AM)
The Ghost Of LOP  Wrote: (06-15-2019 04:14 AM)
So in other fancy words

it is probably just my Torque Converter ?

That thing you just posted States the housing cover gets worn on the inside enough to cause fluid leak ..which screws up the pressure and likely gets into places it shouldn't. That last part is speculation...maybe it just leaks out into nothing important.

Anyway. If you wanted to test the theory just replace the cover with the new fancy one..or even a regular one( it should last awhile right?) Unless the price is close enough then get the fancy one.. Assuming nothing internal is damaged..seals bearings etc...Then it should solve the problem right away. See if you can easily access and remove the housing, sounded like you have to remove part of exhaust and drivetrain. Take a look. Start soaking those bolts in pb blaster everyday day.

Im thinking about buying a newer legacy. Do you know any tips/problems about the newer legacy?
Also. Try a smaller shop. Most places won't do weird repairs. They'll go by the book. Replacing everything. Money. And gurantee. Smaller shops are more willing to just charge you the labor if you supply the part.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 504332
06-15-2019 05:19 AM

 



Post: #6
RE: I Think I figured out my car problem... But now to find someone to help me check it
Muffler bearing........poof and fixed.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 504339
06-15-2019 05:23 AM

 



Post: #7
RE: I Think I figured out my car problem... But now to find someone to help me check it
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-15-2019 05:14 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-15-2019 05:09 AM)
That thing you just posted States the housing cover gets worn on the inside enough to cause fluid leak ..which screws up the pressure and likely gets into places it shouldn't. That last part is speculation...maybe it just leaks out into nothing important.

Anyway. If you wanted to test the theory just replace the cover with the new fancy one..or even a regular one( it should last awhile right?) Unless the price is close enough then get the fancy one.. Assuming nothing internal is damaged..seals bearings etc...Then it should solve the problem right away. See if you can easily access and remove the housing, sounded like you have to remove part of exhaust and drivetrain. Take a look. Start soaking those bolts in pb blaster everyday day.

Im thinking about buying a newer legacy. Do you know any tips/problems about the newer legacy?
Also. Try a smaller shop. Most places won't do weird repairs. They'll go by the book. Replacing everything. Money. And gurantee. Smaller shops are more willing to just charge you the labor if you supply the part.

Also also..if money is tight understand you might be wrong..it's a gift to be able to do your own repairs because it keeps the biggest cost down to zero...labor. But if you pay somebody it's likely 75-100 minimum per hour. Etc. If your paying somebody to fix this your way and not their way you might not n solve the problem.. But at least you narrowed down what it isn't. Thought I'd warn you. It happens. Maybe there's a way to test the pressure to confirm. I have no idea. Maybe they can test to see if your right. But that's $ too.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 504339
06-15-2019 05:25 AM

 



Post: #8
RE: I Think I figured out my car problem... But now to find someone to help me check it
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-15-2019 05:19 AM)
Muffler bearing........poof and fixed.

Headlight fluid is low!
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