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Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 513515
09-04-2019 06:03 AM

 



Post: #46
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
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northerntomcat  Wrote: (09-04-2019 12:06 AM)
BREAKING: MPs have taken control of the Commons by 328 - 301.

PM defeated, rebels lose their jobs, paves way for No Deal bill tomorrow.

A step closet to No Brexit tomorrow, this was never about "no deal" it's about no Brexit.

Democracy runs on losers consent and the losers have refused to give consent all along and seem to be of the opinion that once they win that it will put the matter to bed ince and for all then they can move on.

Can't see it ending well and can't see it as a contagion not spreading, the precedent they have set in modern democracies is this refusal to give consent to be governed by a democratic vote.
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-04-2019 06:08 AM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #47
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
Nope, this is about democracy waking up to the deception and criminal manipulations of the electoral process.
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LoP Guest
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09-04-2019 06:18 AM

 



Post: #48
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (09-04-2019 06:08 AM)
Nope, this is about democracy waking up to the deception and criminal manipulations of the electoral process.

Exactly the point, the losers refuse to give consent to be governed by the winning side or when they refuse to accept the outcome of a democratic vote...

Democracy runs on losers consent, this was been withdrawn the moment the outcome of the EU referendum was announced, and the other side will also withdraw their consent to be governed, or accept the outcome of any future votes, there is no win out of this..

the only way it was possible to win was to accept the result of a democratic vote, implement the outcome of the vote and campaign to rejoin the EU on a positive footing, there is a good chance that would have happened and the UK might by now be rejoining as a new member and accepting of Schengen and the Euro.

That is how democracy works, it does not work when one side refuses to accept the outcome of a democratic vote...
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-04-2019 07:47 AM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #49
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
First up, Dominic Raab having his first outing as foreign secretary. Christ alive even writing that sends shudders up the spine.
Then Jane Dodds, the new Lib Dem Mp, is sworn in, then urgent questions if there are any. Then Boris Johnson statement on the G7 meeting, which'll take a couple hours.
Then Michael Gove on no-deal prep (I did warn you) and then finally, the Standing Order 24 (SO24) fireworks.
I'm guessing that'll be 6-7pm maybe? There's an interval for a private members bill, then the debate and a vote, probably about 10pm-ish.
There's two votes at the end, as I understand it (even the proper constitutional geeks are scrabbling around trying to figure this sh*t out it's all so unprecedented). First is closure and then the one on content, the substantive vote.
The closure vote is needed for the House to hold a division. In other words, it's a precondition for the final vote. A majority of the House, of at least 100 MPs, need to vote in favour for it to go ahead.
If it does, then the substantive vote goes ahead. But to be honest, the closure vote is therefore basically the vote on the content, because anyone who doesn't want the rebel legislation to go ahead will vote against it.
I can't see any reason for someone to vote for closure and against the substantive. So if that passes, it seems pretty certain we're good to go.
I think the same is true for the votes on the bill tomorrow if the emergency debate passes. If MPs vote to allow it, it'd be pretty unlikely that they would then vote against the bill.
So even though that closure motion is not that important on its own terms, it'll give us a really very solid indicator if the anti no-deal rebel legislation is going to pass.
Quick reminder: The SO24 emergency debate will be to let MPs take control of the order paper from tomorrow afternoon, during which time they will force through the anti-no-deal bill through the Commons.
Would then go through Lords, where there's a chance it could be talked out by Brexiters, albeit a small one. Should get royal assent by end of week, or start of next.
If the rebels are defeated on the SO24 debate the attempt to stop no-deal is smashed to pieces.
There are other opportunities. Corbyn is likely to call a no-confidence vote. There might, just about, be another shot at it in late October. But this is the best chance. Stakes are pretty bloody high.
Anyway, not-nice-and-yet-dim Dom Rabb is currently at the dispatch box discussing matters of great geo-strategic and moral importance, like all your worst political nightmares come at once
Raab saying "internationally respected human rights" should be respected. This is the man who plotted to dismantle British membership of European Convention of Human Rights and whose Brexit project would lose the UK the protection of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU.
People' don't give the Charter of Fundamental Rights enough love

continues:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/11688...94240.html
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-04-2019 07:48 AM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #50
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-04-2019 08:09 AM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #51
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
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LoP Guest
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09-04-2019 09:01 AM

 



Post: #52
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
Regardless of the propaganda from all side democracy does not work when losers consent is removed, since the remain side removed their consent the day after the vote it is certain the leave side will also remove their consent to be governed, there is not way around that impasse.

You can call the other side traitors, nazis, fascists, people can demand their franchise be removed but that does not fix the issue which is neither side will give losers consent.. and therefore it is impossible to fix what is broken,

the only way through the impasse was always to implement the outcome of the democratic vote, and then campaign to rejoin the EU as a new member state anything else is not democratic.

there was never a way through the impasse, convention states that referendum results are honoured by Parliament as the will of the people has always matched the will of Parliament, but there was always going to be a result where the will of the people and will of Parliament clashed and Parliament has no tools to manage that situation, the UKs constitution is not set up for that.

The least worst path now is a General Election.. but since neither side is willing to give losers consent that isn't a real option either..

Propaganda is pretty meaningless when it is only believed by one side, and all it does is galavanise the divides into something solid, it does nothing to bridge or heal them or fix anything.
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LoP Guest
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09-04-2019 09:08 AM

 



Post: #53
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (09-04-2019 08:09 AM)

Trump will be out of office in a short while so only those who want to believe such propaganda or believe Trump will actually win push it as though it was real or that a trade deal could actually be reached when the democrats have already said they would take an extremely punitive approach to a UK outside of the EU.
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LoP Guest
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09-04-2019 09:53 AM

 



Post: #54
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
Question for the Op... I understand your point of view is that 50% of the UKs population are these right wing populists, can we take that as a given?

So, since the split basically 1/2 the population how can that divide be fixed rather than galvanised into something deeper?

so an actual serious question that moves beyond the other side being fascists into into the territory how can that divide be fixed? how can the side you support gain losers consent?

As of right now, neither side are giving their consent and that leads down some very nasty paths for both sides as both sides remove the political shackles and adopt political positions based on that split...

So how can this be fixed? because for the life of me I have no idea how each side can shift the bulk of those on the other side from refusing to give losers consent to being graceful losers..
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-04-2019 11:16 AM

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Post: #55
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
lol

I am not so sure that is the case at all.
Like the Trump supporting clowns, hatred in redhats.. those numbers are artificial.

legends in their own mind.. a minority ,puffed up by corruption and those few misusing power gained by deception.

Underneath this veneer of incessant ,ad nausem propaganda and populism there lurks small band of losers.. all of them ,in big coats standing on each others shoulders screeching into fallacy megaphones.




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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-04-2019 12:12 PM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #56
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-04-2019 12:48 PM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #57
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution














"Senior executives at Cambridge Analytica – the data company that credits itself with Donald Trump’s presidential victory – have been secretly filmed saying they could entrap politicians in compromising situations with bribes and Ukrainian sex workers."



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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-04-2019 01:05 PM

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Post: #58
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution


(This post was last modified: 09-04-2019 01:07 PM by spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ.) Quote this message in a reply
James
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09-04-2019 01:25 PM

Posts: 3,888



Post: #59
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
Hahahahahahaha!!!!

Boris Johnson calls for snap general election in October to prevent Brexit delay

Quote:Prime Minister Boris Johnson calls for an early general election in October after MPs vote for plan to delay Brexit.

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-jo...019-9?IR=T

chuckle

Sheer Genius! Imagine Red Jerome juggling that Brusselian Mafia Inc. hot potato, with Khazar-Russo-American Party-Boy, Bernski, at the wheel of the White House Inc. in 20/20?

De wereld met de voet te stoten,
Ziedaar hetgeen de Dichter maakt!

- Willem Bilderdijk
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-04-2019 01:44 PM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #60
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution


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