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Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-02-2019 10:25 AM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #1
Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
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A thread on how we got here, with actual examples

1.
Secretaries of State repeatedly misled the House and its committees over the extent and existence of Brexit sector analyses reports

2.
The government prolonged the current parliamentary session over two years, so that there would not be a Queen's Speech

3.
The government packed committees with Tory majorities, even though it is a hung parliament, by procedural sleight of hand

4.
The government repeatedly ignored and did not even participate in votes on opposition motions

And then disregarded the motions passed

5.
The government sought to make the Article 50 notification without any parliamentary approval whatsoever, and forced litigation to go all the way to the Supreme Court so that parliament could have that approval

6.
The government committed itself to billions of pounds of public expenditure in a blatant bribe to the DUP for support in a supply and confidence vote

7.
The government repeatedly sought to circumvent or abuse the Sewell convention in its dealings with the devolved administrations

8.
The government sought to legislate for staggeringly wider "Henry VIII powers" so that it could legislate and even repeal Acts without any recourse to parliament

9.
The government became the first administration in parliamentary history to be held to be in contempt of parliament

10.
The government stood by when there were attacks on the independent judiciary and the independent civil service

"Enemies of the People"

"Traitors"

11.
The government deliberately broke the pairing convention, in respect of an MP on maternity leave, so that the the government could win a vote

12.
The government gave serious consideration to blocking a duly passed Bill from obtaining Royal Assent

13.
The government has now locked the doors of parliament for five weeks in the crucial run-up to a no deal Brexit, just to avoid scrutiny and adverse legislation

14.
Today a senior cabinet minister refused to commit the government to complying with any laws passed by parliament

15.
And the response of government supporters to anyone disturbed by this pattern of increasingly serious constitutional wrongs?

"Hysterical"

But these concrete examples show there is something serious to be worried about

Something bad is happening, and it has to be stopped

/ends

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/11681...57792.html
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 511571
09-02-2019 10:28 AM

 



Post: #2
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
The real step one

1. The people of England Voted to leave the EU.

Basically, end of story, but
2. Leave the EU

But actually, interfere and drag out the process piss people off enough so they can be persuaded to not or set up to be pounded after it happens.
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-02-2019 10:33 AM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #3
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
Fascism for dummies
2016
by Sergio Graziosi
Brexit, the unchallenged pile of lies which enabled it, and now Trump. If you are not scared, you haven’t been paying attention. There are many visible reasons to be scared, but more worryingly, there are hidden reasons as well. I think that the hidden reasons need to be exposed, and will try to do so below. [Spoiler: I will need to start from the good side of fascism, because yes, it does have one.]

Anti-fascism of the wrong kind.


As a result of Brexit, it is well known and widely acknowledged that the British right wing media feels bold enough to openly promote fascistic ideas. Concurrently, the UK government is busy promoting policies that don’t smell much different, while making it very clear that they don’t find the media coverage alarming.

In this context, many are blowing the whistle, in fact, it is reassuring to see how many do. However, I fear that all the whistle-blowing is falling on deaf ears. My worry is that both the UK and the US have demonised fascism so thoroughly that they have effectively become unable to detect and repel it efficiently.
<----SNIP----->

Quote:Present-day fascism promises to solve the problems created by liberal democracies, mainly by providing a more efficient (and gratifying) way to coordinate efforts. Unfortunately, it comes with the upfront cost of being oppressive (despite my example, I don’t think benign oppression will ever be possible). This should be enough to repel it. Who wants to live oppressed?
If that’s not enough, the secondary effect of silencing dissent is an inherent inability to detect and correct mistakes. As a result, fascism promises to solve some problems, but is only able to deliver this promise at its onset: sooner or later, inefficiency necessarily prevails. In other words, fascism merely appears to solve the problems in question, but in fact it postpones them without resolving them, allowing them to grow out of control. In short: fascism is a problem that you really don’t want to have.

Am I saying that Britain and the USA are inevitably sliding into fascism? No. I’m saying that the danger is real, and it is real because many people who sincerely believe that fascism is bad may be unable or unwilling to recognise the current trend. They are, because they have been told lies, (mostly well intentioned) lies about fascism, in this case.

https://sergiograziosi.wordpress.com/201...r-dummies/
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-02-2019 10:41 AM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #4
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
Why are lawyers so disturbed by Mr Gove’s refusal to confirm that the Govt would abide by a Law passed by Parliament? Let me explain ...


Put simply, Gove is saying this Govt may choose to treat itself as being above the Law. That should be an inconceivable position for any Govt. That would not be tinkering with convention, it would be a direct attack on the rule of law itself.

We do not periodically elect dictators. Primary legislation must be approved by Parliament, secondary legislation is scrutinised by it. If a Govt lacks a working majority that is because that is what the electorate wanted. It is not a reason to *loosen* the restraints on power

It is of course frustrating for a Govt and its supporters for it not to be able to just do what it wants, but we are not that sort of society and no-one should want us to be, for a Govt to even contemplate refusing to obey the law is to hack at the taproot of parliamentary sovereignty and the rule of law.

Ministerial impatience isn’t just a bad reason for doing it, it is part of the reason we have these principles in the first place /end

https://twitter.com/seanjonesqc/status/1...5042595841
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Upside Down
Registered User
User ID: 479653
09-02-2019 10:43 AM

Posts: 24,504



Post: #5
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
that is England sh*t.

I am American.

I have to worry about Trump.

Candle
Reality are the hearts and minds of those who try.
Everything that is not illusion is confusion.

box
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 513515
09-02-2019 10:57 AM

 



Post: #6
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
This was never going to end well, both sides have pushed the UKs constitution to breaking point, the Speaker has repeated left his supposed position of referee and acting on behalf of one side only and the outcome was always going to enrage 50% of the population...

Parliament is heading towards a split regardless of stay or leave and martial law has been mooted by either side as a means to control those who disagree with whichever outcome..

So your op can also be used to frame Brexit, Liberals and the Constitution as if it goes the other way they'll be the ones declaring martial law and deploying the military to arrest and deal with those who voted leave...
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 513515
09-02-2019 11:02 AM

 



Post: #7
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
and for what it is worth, Conservative and Labour are on both sides in this... which is why the numbers game in terms of a VONC is such a hard one to call, those on the Conservative side that switch to side with Remain will be matched with those on the Labour side that switch to side with Leave...

If that happens then British party politics is dead and we move into the realms of leave and remain as political alliances representing a cleft in the

Both sides are masking what they are doing by pretending it is to get a deal or remain, or get a deal or leave when reality is that both sides are working to either remain or leave only.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
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09-02-2019 11:23 AM

 



Post: #8
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (09-02-2019 10:25 AM)
But these concrete examples show there is something serious to be worried about

Something bad is happening, and it has to be stopped

An additional 20000 UK troops "permanently" based in Germany are in the process of returning to the UK complete with armoured vehicles and will be complete by Brexit date, for when things get bad.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 513515
09-02-2019 11:25 AM

 



Post: #9
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-02-2019 11:23 AM)
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (09-02-2019 10:25 AM)
But these concrete examples show there is something serious to be worried about

Something bad is happening, and it has to be stopped

An additional 20000 UK troops "permanently" based in Germany are in the process of returning to the UK complete with armoured vehicles and will be complete by Brexit date, for when things get bad.

and the point remains though that either direction they will be used against the losing side by the winning side... not going to end well.
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-02-2019 11:32 AM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #10
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 350320
09-02-2019 11:36 AM

Posts: 28,285



Post: #11
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
Upside Down  Wrote: (09-02-2019 10:43 AM)
that is England sh*t.

I am American.

I have to worry about Trump.

#BREXITLIVESMATTER

chuckle

this is an international forum..though you maybe forgiven for thinking otherwise.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 513885
09-02-2019 11:37 AM

 



Post: #12
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
Foreign remoaners are funny little impotent things, raging away in their offshore basements.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
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09-02-2019 11:41 AM

 



Post: #13
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (09-02-2019 11:32 AM)

Doesn't matter which side you are on, both have been playing with the constitution and ripping up conventions when it suits their end goal leave or remain.

and we hear nastiness coming from all sides, the recent Pro Democracy rallies even have their extreme fringes claiming leavers should be "gassed" this is how nasty it is getting on either side of the line, lucky though it is a handful at the fringes.

and whichever side does win they'll be the ones declaring martial law.. be it on the leavers or on the remainers... not even sure anything can be done at this point..

We have Blair at the moment telling Corbyn he should not agree to putting this before the people in an election... so much for allowing a democratic vote.. but I can see his point Labour would lose to the BP in it's heartlands, and lose in the Cities to the LibDems..

What a mess... no wonder the Mirror has called this the Plughole Parliment..
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LoP Guest
lop guest
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09-02-2019 11:52 AM

 



Post: #14
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
For those outside the UK this is an interesting read on the topic in the OP

The will of the people shattered our constitution
https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy...nstitution

Britains constitution has never had the "we the people" moment, the public do not appear anywhere within the UKs constitution which is what has led us to this point..
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 513515
09-02-2019 12:24 PM

 



Post: #15
RE: Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
And why the conundrum for MPs...


https://fullfact.org/online/referendum-r...stituency/

“By constituency By Party"

Lab: 148 Leave | 84 Remain
Con: 247 Leave | 80 Remain

“By MP"

160 Leave | 486 Remain

Hence the calls to deslect those MPs who are not representing their constituencies and why Blair many are pushing to avoid having an election.. as in FPTP the bulk would be for leave and why Johnson is aiming for a "people vs parliment" vote.


Some have suggested that he needed to create a situation (proroguing parliament) where he can lose a VONC and aim for a General Election this side of Brexit.
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