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Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Luvapottamus
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User ID: 372884
09-11-2019 05:20 PM

Posts: 11,427



Post: #76
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
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LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2019 09:38 PM)
As a physics student I would say there is zilch chance of any ground current from the actual generator unless its shorted to the housing.

Now what is possible since you have rather large structures and blades moving through the air is static electricity would could cause ground currents based on differences in potential. Kind of like when you comb your hair on a cold day and your hair stands up.

If you had a sensitive voltmeter you could put a couple of stakes in the ground and measure the potential difference at different locations. You'd want to put the stakes as far apart as practical. That would tell you if there is a ground current but not the magnitude.

I'm sure how such a current could kill cows unless it was pretty big.

I was wondering if you could use the telephone system to measure the whole city, or portions thereof.

By making a loop sensor.

You can order an Actual Private Network. Banks do it all the time with ATM machines.

You just have the phone company connect some of their lines in a loop and connect the ends to your instrument. As an antenna.

Hypothesis is that would measure activity/potentials/differentials within the loop. Put instruments at different locations around the loop?

And you could do many loops and compare them depending on how the phone lines are distributed.

You might have to disconnect telecom service to everything else in the telecom system in order to get a clean reading....twisted pairs don't completely eliminate inductive fields.

But there may already be ground currents naturally between the City of Lawton and Mt Scott nearby. And Elk Mountain, and the other mountains.

Due to elevation and atmospheric potentials...

I want to know how the electric grid is interacting with those currents and fields.


???

There is no such thing as sovereign debt. Reinstate Greenbacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5OQUElilo
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(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 05:22 PM by Luvapottamus.) Quote this message in a reply
Luvapottamus
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09-11-2019 05:30 PM

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Post: #77
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-11-2019 05:14 PM)
Pasta Lover  Wrote: (09-10-2019 09:59 PM)
Due to the long distance, you would have to compensate for the leadwire resistance. Process transmitters do this by using a 3 or 4 wire setup. It's called leadwire compensation.

I kind of doubt that would be necessary unless you were looking for really accurate measurements. Voltmeters have a fairly large impedance on most scales. Place the rods in the ground like 50 feet apart and use a large copper wire to hook to the voltmeter and a second wire to short between the rods to get a zero measurement.

If its too small to measure its probably not a problem. I'd do it on a windy day to try and max static.

Ground loops occur where you have more than one ground and you develop a difference in potential between them.

And we have lots of those.

Because we bond the neutral to the ground at the service entrance on every building.

Because the electric utilities didn't want to pay for thicker neutral wires.

chuckle

Remember back in the war (WWII)we were using aluminum wires and aluminum breaker boxes. Because copper was hard to get.

chuckle

I'm not opposed to wind power.

I just want non-toxic wind power.

And it can be done.

It won't be done unless we demand it.

There is no such thing as sovereign debt. Reinstate Greenbacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5OQUElilo
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(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 05:32 PM by Luvapottamus.) Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 465738
09-11-2019 05:31 PM

 



Post: #78
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Not sure what you would be detecting other than random electromagnetic noise.

Grounds for electrical power are mainly for safety.

Generally for electronics you don't want them connected to ground except for the casing because that creates sneak paths and things for weird currents that will interfere with the electronics. We used twisted shielded pairs to transmit data That kept electromagnetic interference out.

But I guess if you had 50 ohm coax the outside is generally grounded but there you are filtering out the high frequency to use. That's why I have problems with my connections on my home stuff sometimes get a little shock.

I did have a problem once where every time I ran my garbage disposal my TV would trip off. Power company said a squirrel had chewed through the ground wire or something. They fixed it and it works fine now.
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Luvapottamus
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09-11-2019 05:34 PM

Posts: 11,427



Post: #79
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-11-2019 05:31 PM)
Not sure what you would be detecting other than random electromagnetic noise.

Grounds for electrical power are mainly for safety.

Generally for electronics you don't want them connected to ground except for the casing because that creates sneak paths and things for weird currents that will interfere with the electronics. We used twisted shielded pairs to transmit data That kept electromagnetic interference out.

But I guess if you had 50 ohm coax the outside is generally grounded but there you are filtering out the high frequency to use. That's why I have problems with my connections on my home stuff sometimes get a little shock.

I did have a problem once where every time I ran my garbage disposal my TV would trip off. Power company said a squirrel had chewed through the ground wire or something. They fixed it and it works fine now.

Not random noise.

Random noise is good for you.

Synthetic noise is what I want to measure.

It's toxic.

Because it has patterns that your biological system entrains to.

Also random noise is only good for you at low energy.

These systems may be amplifying natural background plus synthetic.

In more than one way.

There is no such thing as sovereign debt. Reinstate Greenbacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5OQUElilo
Tax Wallstreet Party
United Front Against Austerity
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 05:35 PM by Luvapottamus.) Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 465738
09-11-2019 05:43 PM

 



Post: #80
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
From my limited knowledge of science your really high frequencies which could cause problems with DNA and stuff don't really penetrate too far into the human body. So whatever effect would probably be near the skin.

We do have a magnetic sensor in our eyes which I've discussed in some posts. Its called cryptochrome and its role appears to be turning on an ultraviolet sun and moon tracker system when the body is aligned with a magnetic field. Its common in insects and mammals. Its how rats navigate. Since the only people that really use it are the Polynesian navigators I kind of doubt magnetic fields would have much effect other than maybe make people think something was wrong subconsciously.

I think probably the worst would be penetrating lower frequencies on the order of brainwave frequencies. I live next to a radio station transmitter and every morning I wake up with a song running through my head.
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Luvapottamus
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09-11-2019 06:00 PM

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Post: #81
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-11-2019 05:43 PM)
From my limited knowledge of science your really high frequencies which could cause problems with DNA and stuff don't really penetrate too far into the human body. So whatever effect would probably be near the skin.

We do have a magnetic sensor in our eyes which I've discussed in some posts. Its called cryptochrome and its role appears to be turning on an ultraviolet sun and moon tracker system when the body is aligned with a magnetic field. Its common in insects and mammals. Its how rats navigate. Since the only people that really use it are the Polynesian navigators I kind of doubt magnetic fields would have much effect other than maybe make people think something was wrong subconsciously.

I think probably the worst would be penetrating lower frequencies on the order of brainwave frequencies. I live next to a radio station transmitter and every morning I wake up with a song running through my head.

Read this:

http://www.electronicsilentspring.com/wp...ussels.pdf

It's a compilation of the medical literature from 2014.

You might enjoy this one as well:

http://jultika.oulu.fi/files/isbn9789514297601.pdf

That one is a study of the effects of weak digital tv signals on muscles.

I have EHS, Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity.

There are numerous causes, but the primary one is overexposure. I've been living very near to cell towers for over ten years. Most people who live near them get sick within six.

But there's also a genetic component, and all of my immediate family has it, and had it.(My dad died from it.)

There's also another factor in my family.

I soaked in a lot of hexavalent chromium as a carburetor rebuilder. To the point of an anaphlactic shock reaction.

After working with inadequate protections for nine months with chromic acid, I wet home one night and took a shower, broke out in hives and passed out, couldn't breathe.

Got epinephrine at the ER, but had repeat reactions over the next five years as my body attempted to eliminate it through the skin.

My dad had gadilinium deposition disease.

He was injected with Gadolinium about twice a year for contrast MRI's to monitor the progression of prostate cancer.

The chelation agent isn't effective so that built up in his tissues.

When the smart meter was installed he couldn't walk. The RF pulses lit up his nervous system.

I evacuated him, and he recovered, but he lost it when he returned home.

So we installed shielding, and I though we had also installed filters because I hired an electrician to do it, but he f**ked it all up.

Found out after my dad had the stroke.

I can detect stars with my eyes closed.

I can also locate WIFI routers.

Not everybody in Lawton has EHS yet.

But it's dosage related, and more and more people are vulnerable because they keep adding MORE.(transmitters, dirty electricity)

And some of these people have had contrast MRIs, and if you check the symptoms, EHS and Gadolinium Deposition Disease are almost identical.

So is fybromyalgia.

No reason to torture and murder these people because of bad engineering.

There is no such thing as sovereign debt. Reinstate Greenbacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5OQUElilo
Tax Wallstreet Party
United Front Against Austerity
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 06:10 PM by Luvapottamus.) Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 356662
09-11-2019 07:17 PM

 



Post: #82
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:03 AM)
Pasta Lover  Wrote: (09-10-2019 04:15 AM)
Why do you suspect there may be some currents in the ground system. What are you defining ground currents as?

"Ground" currents are when electricity (which has to flow in a loop called a "circuit") returns via any path other than the wires.

GFI circuits detect when the outgoing and returning currents are different (such as when you use a hair dryer in the bathtub) and shut down the circuit when the ground loop through you and the building plumbing is detected.

The neutral (white) is tied to a ground reference usually at the building entry. (black, blue, or red carry voltage, and green is ground), but the neutral and not the ground is supposed to return the current.

In fact the building entry is the only place where neutral and ground should meet. Subpanels should receive separate neutral and ground wires from the main and not be a ground point.
In newer service panels there are 2 ground bus. You are supposed to attach all the white returns to one bus and all the green grounds to the other The 2 bus are connected to each other in the service box via a bus bar. There is supposed to be 2 ground rods outside 10' apart, 1 rod is attached to 1 bus and the other rod to the other bus with #6 copper.
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Coolchick
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User ID: 53
09-11-2019 08:20 PM

Posts: 12,549



Post: #83
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Luvapottamus  Wrote: (09-11-2019 05:34 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-11-2019 05:31 PM)
Not sure what you would be detecting other than random electromagnetic noise.

Grounds for electrical power are mainly for safety.

Generally for electronics you don't want them connected to ground except for the casing because that creates sneak paths and things for weird currents that will interfere with the electronics. We used twisted shielded pairs to transmit data That kept electromagnetic interference out.

But I guess if you had 50 ohm coax the outside is generally grounded but there you are filtering out the high frequency to use. That's why I have problems with my connections on my home stuff sometimes get a little shock.

I did have a problem once where every time I ran my garbage disposal my TV would trip off. Power company said a squirrel had chewed through the ground wire or something. They fixed it and it works fine now.

Not random noise.

Random noise is good for you.

Synthetic noise is what I want to measure.

It's toxic.

Because it has patterns that your biological system entrains to.

Also random noise is only good for you at low energy.

These systems may be amplifying natural background plus synthetic.

In more than one way.

synthetic noise like tinnitus?

Just Plain Nuts.
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Luvapottamus
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User ID: 372884
09-12-2019 12:50 AM

Posts: 11,427



Post: #84
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-11-2019 07:17 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:03 AM)
"Ground" currents are when electricity (which has to flow in a loop called a "circuit") returns via any path other than the wires.

GFI circuits detect when the outgoing and returning currents are different (such as when you use a hair dryer in the bathtub) and shut down the circuit when the ground loop through you and the building plumbing is detected.

The neutral (white) is tied to a ground reference usually at the building entry. (black, blue, or red carry voltage, and green is ground), but the neutral and not the ground is supposed to return the current.

In fact the building entry is the only place where neutral and ground should meet. Subpanels should receive separate neutral and ground wires from the main and not be a ground point.
In newer service panels there are 2 ground bus. You are supposed to attach all the white returns to one bus and all the green grounds to the other The 2 bus are connected to each other in the service box via a bus bar. There is supposed to be 2 ground rods outside 10' apart, 1 rod is attached to 1 bus and the other rod to the other bus with #6 copper.

Yeah that's wrong too.

chuckle

The neutral should never be bonded to earth.

The only reason it is is cheapskate utilities.

Ground should only be for faults.

See Mike Holt link posted earlier.

Also I don't think Norway uses thick neutrals because their mountains don't conduct electricity.

I think they keep the neutral insulated back to the generator because THEY DO CONDUCT WELL.

And they don't want to get shocked, when the neighbor burns his barn down.

chuckle

A buddy of mine who climbs in Colorado got shocked when lightening hit the other side of the mountain.

We're doing it wrong.

For money.

Which is false economy because the costs in DEATHS and DISEASE vastly outweigh the cost of thicker neutral wires, fiber optic internet, and DC wind generators.

If you use wind, just funnel all the DC from every windmill to a motor that turns an AC generator.

Then you get clean power like a hydro dam, or all the others except PV which also needs to be cleaned up.

And DC generators don't need EARTH GROUND to work either, as another poster suggested.

My VW doesn't earth the gennie.

chuckle

Ground it in case it gets hit by lightening, or shorts out.

chuckle

The housing and tower.

There is no such thing as sovereign debt. Reinstate Greenbacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5OQUElilo
Tax Wallstreet Party
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(This post was last modified: 09-12-2019 12:51 AM by Luvapottamus.) Quote this message in a reply
Luvapottamus
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User ID: 372884
09-12-2019 12:55 AM

Posts: 11,427



Post: #85
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Coolchick  Wrote: (09-11-2019 08:20 PM)
Luvapottamus  Wrote: (09-11-2019 05:34 PM)
Not random noise.

Random noise is good for you.

Synthetic noise is what I want to measure.

It's toxic.

Because it has patterns that your biological system entrains to.

Also random noise is only good for you at low energy.

These systems may be amplifying natural background plus synthetic.

In more than one way.

synthetic noise like tinnitus?

Synthetic electromagnetic fields. In the form of magnetic fields and Radiofrequency radiation.

What I'm wanting to measure is natural ground currents and magnetic fields and compare them to natural PLUS synthetic crap.

See what the difference is.

Various ways to do it, but I think a loop sensor would be the cheapest way to cover a large area.

Especially if you can rent phone or powerlines that are already buried.

There is no such thing as sovereign debt. Reinstate Greenbacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5OQUElilo
Tax Wallstreet Party
United Front Against Austerity
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 515251
09-12-2019 01:02 AM

 



Post: #86
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Luvapottamus  Wrote: (09-12-2019 12:55 AM)
Coolchick  Wrote: (09-11-2019 08:20 PM)
synthetic noise like tinnitus?

Synthetic electromagnetic fields. In the form of magnetic fields and Radiofrequency radiation.

What I'm wanting to measure is natural ground currents and magnetic fields and compare them to natural PLUS synthetic crap.

See what the difference is.

Various ways to do it, but I think a loop sensor would be the cheapest way to cover a large area.

Especially if you can rent phone or powerlines that are already buried.

I have Just descoved the spikes at the edge
Of Saturns rings ?
Quote this message in a reply
Luvapottamus
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User ID: 372884
09-12-2019 01:15 AM

Posts: 11,427



Post: #87
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-12-2019 01:02 AM)
Luvapottamus  Wrote: (09-12-2019 12:55 AM)
Synthetic electromagnetic fields. In the form of magnetic fields and Radiofrequency radiation.

What I'm wanting to measure is natural ground currents and magnetic fields and compare them to natural PLUS synthetic crap.

See what the difference is.

Various ways to do it, but I think a loop sensor would be the cheapest way to cover a large area.

Especially if you can rent phone or powerlines that are already buried.

I have Just descoved the spikes at the edge
Of Saturns rings ?

Nope.

Making Sense of Loop Detectors and Loops

By Jeff Harris, Systems Specialist
Loop Article Making Sense of Loops & Detectors Jeff Harris

Inductive loops or "sensing loops" as they are commonly referred to, have become an integral part of automatic gate systems and other aspects of our everyday life. For example, every time you pull up to a stoplight, you "trigger" a loop, which in turn engages a timer or switching device to change the lights and get you on your way. Loops are used to stop or reverse a moving gate, to allow free exit from or entrance to a site, or as an "arming loop" to allow entrance with the use of a transmitter or some other access control device.

A loop is made from a continuous run of wire with no splices, which is typically wound in a rectangular shape and saw cut into the existing pavement. In some instances, prefabricated or "pre-formed" loops can be installed before paving or pouring concrete on the roadway. The ends of the wire are brought back to the gate operator and attached to a loop detector. The lead-in or "home run" from the corner of the loop to the detector must be twisted a minimum of five times per foot. The detector powers the loop causing a magnetic field around the wire. The loop then tunes to a resonate frequency and the detector constantly monitors the frequency for changes. When a vehicle enters the loop, the frequency increases causing the detector to send an output to the gate operator....

https://www.gatedepot.com/making-sense-o...-and-loops

I got the idea from some loop sensors I bought at the Habit for Humanity ReStore.

In electronics parlance it's a COIL.

A one turn coil.

Don't know if it would work well for measuring what I want to measure, hence the question.

Any real physicists here?

chuckle

Electrical Engineers can pipe in, but you're a little but disqualified because you never called BS on earthing the neutral.

chuckle

There is no such thing as sovereign debt. Reinstate Greenbacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5OQUElilo
Tax Wallstreet Party
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(This post was last modified: 09-12-2019 01:16 AM by Luvapottamus.) Quote this message in a reply
Luvapottamus
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User ID: 372884
09-12-2019 01:27 AM

Posts: 11,427



Post: #88
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Path of Least Resistance is a fallacy.

Electricity flows all paths in which Ω< ∞

More current where the least resistance is, but ALL PATHS in which Ω< ∞.

If I cut two wires and one wire is 100 feet long, and the other is one foot long, and connect them BOTH to a battery, only the one foot wire conducts?

It's the path of LEAST resistance.


Headass

Your grounded neutrals are making lightening storms in the earth.

No wonder the bees are confused.

Because resistance CHANGES underground all the time.

chuckle

The backhaul on your air conditioner is changing paths all the time back to the substation.

There is no such thing as sovereign debt. Reinstate Greenbacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5OQUElilo
Tax Wallstreet Party
United Front Against Austerity
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2019 01:29 AM by Luvapottamus.) Quote this message in a reply








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