News
news Cognitive scientist says we see things as we need to, rather than as they are.
news A Movie You Control With Your Mind
news Radioactive Cloud That Blanketed Europe Traced to Russian Nuclear Facility
news Organization Says It’s Obtained ‘Exotic’ Metals Unknown to Science
news The frightening supernatural story of the Black Bird of Chernobyl
news Recent UFO Encounters With Navy Pilots Occurred Constantly Across Multiple Squadrons
news How plants reclaimed Chernobyl's poisoned land
news First Robot Arm Controlled by Thought Alone
news By 2050, many U.S. cities will have weather like they’ve never seen
news The Unexplained Mystery Boom Phenomenon Continues Worldwide
news Scientists fear end to Mankind not 'decades away' but 'much sooner'


Username:
Password: or Register
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Luvapottamus
Registered User
User ID: 372884
09-10-2019 03:55 AM

Posts: 11,427



Post: #1
Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Advertisement
Library is about to close, but I'm wanting to devise a cheap sensor to detect ground currents in a city.

I'm wondering if splicing buried phone lines into a private network loop would do it, or whether adjacent lines would bespoil it through induction.

LOPphysicists please respond.

The scenario is a wind farm appears to be polluting the ground fields in a city adjacent to it in granite terrain.



Phone company might refuse to do it, but I'm just wanting to conceptualize it.

Loop detectors that switch open gates when cars approach inspired the idea.

What do y'all think?

Popcorn

There is no such thing as sovereign debt. Reinstate Greenbacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5OQUElilo
Tax Wallstreet Party
United Front Against Austerity
Quote this message in a reply
Natura Naturans
Registered User
User ID: 510550
09-10-2019 04:04 AM

Posts: 7,274



Post: #2
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
First you should find out if the windfarm is sending their output out as DC or AC. Most likely it will be AC unless it is a very large farm. You would likely not have ground current with AC. It is only a problem in areas of large DC high voltage lines, the ground under and around the lines carry a large return current. I understand cows and outher animals in fields around these lines are affected. So first you have to do research into what DC lines are in your area. They are conspicuous because they are very high voltage large lines.

“The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.” --Baruch Spinoza
Quote this message in a reply
Pasta Lover
Registered User
User ID: 418981
09-10-2019 04:15 AM

Posts: 8,161



Post: #3
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Why do you suspect there may be some currents in the ground system. What are you defining ground currents as?
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 04:25 AM by Pasta Lover.) Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 510555
09-10-2019 05:03 AM

 



Post: #4
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Pasta Lover  Wrote: (09-10-2019 04:15 AM)
Why do you suspect there may be some currents in the ground system. What are you defining ground currents as?

"Ground" currents are when electricity (which has to flow in a loop called a "circuit") returns via any path other than the wires.

GFI circuits detect when the outgoing and returning currents are different (such as when you use a hair dryer in the bathtub) and shut down the circuit when the ground loop through you and the building plumbing is detected.

The neutral (white) is tied to a ground reference usually at the building entry. (black, blue, or red carry voltage, and green is ground), but the neutral and not the ground is supposed to return the current.

In fact the building entry is the only place where neutral and ground should meet. Subpanels should receive separate neutral and ground wires from the main and not be a ground point.
Quote this message in a reply
Pasta Lover
Registered User
User ID: 418981
09-10-2019 05:39 AM

Posts: 8,161



Post: #5
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:03 AM)
Pasta Lover  Wrote: (09-10-2019 04:15 AM)
Why do you suspect there may be some currents in the ground system. What are you defining ground currents as?

"Ground" currents are when electricity (which has to flow in a loop called a "circuit") returns via any path other than the wires.

GFI circuits detect when the outgoing and returning currents are different (such as when you use a hair dryer in the bathtub) and shut down the circuit when the ground loop through you and the building plumbing is detected.

The neutral (white) is tied to a ground reference usually at the building entry. (black, blue, or red carry voltage, and green is ground), but the neutral and not the ground is supposed to return the current.

In fact the building entry is the only place where neutral and ground should meet. Subpanels should receive separate neutral and ground wires from the main and not be a ground point.

Thanks for the excellent description. You are describing a typical 3 wire system. Hot Neutral and ground. The ground wire isn't supposed to have any current on it because the circuit is completed between the load(hair dryer) and the load center(where the breakers are). In power generation they use three phase as apposed to single phase. When these generators are synced to the grid they pretty much are matched from a frequency, phase and voltage standpoint. I guess depending on whether the wind farm is importing or exporting megaWatts and/or megaVars, these systems have to have a way to import that power. On a diesel generator connected to a grid, when you increase the throttle on the engine, the engine does NOT speed up. It takes more load. It exports megawatts and/or megaVars. If that engine is closely matched and not importing or exporting and you reduce the throttle, it will "windmill". The generator turns into a motor and will push the engine. Only to a certain point though. The generator breaker will eventually trip if you continue to reduce the throttle.

So what happens when the wind turbine suddenly has to import power. Well, it depends on the generator type. Most likely it is a Unsynchronised Synchronous type which doesn't really care. It uses electronics to handle the load variances. Still though, who knows if there could be some bleeding of energy.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 05:45 AM by Pasta Lover.) Quote this message in a reply
Upside Down
Registered User
User ID: 479653
09-10-2019 05:46 AM

Posts: 24,504



Post: #6
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
My training says Ground is Ground.

It is Zero Volts.

I know that is not true, but the Third extremity in an electrical plug goes to a stick that is plugged into the earth.

They call it ground for a reason.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JnGBs88sL0

Candle
Reality are the hearts and minds of those who try.
Everything that is not illusion is confusion.

box
Quote this message in a reply
Upside Down
Registered User
User ID: 479653
09-10-2019 05:49 AM

Posts: 24,504



Post: #7
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
OP, there were studies on how electric current was transmitted from power stations and the return was in the "ground".

Electronics systems should throw a "fault" if this happens now.

But back then electricity passed through cow fields and created some crazy ass sh*t with farms.

Candle
Reality are the hearts and minds of those who try.
Everything that is not illusion is confusion.

box
Quote this message in a reply
Upside Down
Registered User
User ID: 479653
09-10-2019 05:55 AM

Posts: 24,504



Post: #8
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Luvapottamus  Wrote: (09-10-2019 03:55 AM)
Library is about to close, but I'm wanting to devise a cheap sensor to detect ground currents in a city.

I'm wondering if splicing buried phone lines into a private network loop would do it, or whether adjacent lines would bespoil it through induction.

LOPphysicists please respond.

The scenario is a wind farm appears to be polluting the ground fields in a city adjacent to it in granite terrain.



Phone company might refuse to do it, but I'm just wanting to conceptualize it.

Loop detectors that switch open gates when cars approach inspired the idea.

What do y'all think?

Popcorn

Find a ditch, put an ammeter. They can be bought at Walmart for about 20 dollars.


Just make sure your ammeter is sensitive enough.

Candle
Reality are the hearts and minds of those who try.
Everything that is not illusion is confusion.

box
Quote this message in a reply
Upside Down
Registered User
User ID: 479653
09-10-2019 05:58 AM

Posts: 24,504



Post: #9
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Pasta Lover  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:39 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:03 AM)
"Ground" currents are when electricity (which has to flow in a loop called a "circuit") returns via any path other than the wires.

GFI circuits detect when the outgoing and returning currents are different (such as when you use a hair dryer in the bathtub) and shut down the circuit when the ground loop through you and the building plumbing is detected.

The neutral (white) is tied to a ground reference usually at the building entry. (black, blue, or red carry voltage, and green is ground), but the neutral and not the ground is supposed to return the current.

In fact the building entry is the only place where neutral and ground should meet. Subpanels should receive separate neutral and ground wires from the main and not be a ground point.

Thanks for the excellent description. You are describing a typical 3 wire system. Hot Neutral and ground. The ground wire isn't supposed to have any current on it because the circuit is completed between the load(hair dryer) and the load center(where the breakers are). In power generation they use three phase as apposed to single phase. When these generators are synced to the grid they pretty much are matched from a frequency, phase and voltage standpoint. I guess depending on whether the wind farm is importing or exporting megaWatts and/or megaVars, these systems have to have a way to import that power. On a diesel generator connected to a grid, when you increase the throttle on the engine, the engine does NOT speed up. It takes more load. It exports megawatts and/or megaVars. If that engine is closely matched and not importing or exporting and you reduce the throttle, it will "windmill". The generator turns into a motor and will push the engine. Only to a certain point though. The generator breaker will eventually trip if you continue to reduce the throttle.

So what happens when the wind turbine suddenly has to import power. Well, it depends on the generator type. Most likely it is a Unsynchronised Synchronous type which doesn't really care. It uses electronics to handle the load variances. Still though, who knows if there could be some bleeding of energy.

eh, bullshit babble.

Candle
Reality are the hearts and minds of those who try.
Everything that is not illusion is confusion.

box
Quote this message in a reply
Pasta Lover
Registered User
User ID: 418981
09-10-2019 06:03 AM

Posts: 8,161



Post: #10
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Upside Down  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:58 AM)
Pasta Lover  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:39 AM)
Thanks for the excellent description. You are describing a typical 3 wire system. Hot Neutral and ground. The ground wire isn't supposed to have any current on it because the circuit is completed between the load(hair dryer) and the load center(where the breakers are). In power generation they use three phase as apposed to single phase. When these generators are synced to the grid they pretty much are matched from a frequency, phase and voltage standpoint. I guess depending on whether the wind farm is importing or exporting megaWatts and/or megaVars, these systems have to have a way to import that power. On a diesel generator connected to a grid, when you increase the throttle on the engine, the engine does NOT speed up. It takes more load. It exports megawatts and/or megaVars. If that engine is closely matched and not importing or exporting and you reduce the throttle, it will "windmill". The generator turns into a motor and will push the engine. Only to a certain point though. The generator breaker will eventually trip if you continue to reduce the throttle.

So what happens when the wind turbine suddenly has to import power. Well, it depends on the generator type. Most likely it is a Unsynchronised Synchronous type which doesn't really care. It uses electronics to handle the load variances. Still though, who knows if there could be some bleeding of energy.

eh, bullshit babble.

I just don't think the ground system would see any induced currents.
Quote this message in a reply
Upside Down
Registered User
User ID: 479653
09-10-2019 06:05 AM

Posts: 24,504



Post: #11
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
So In the Real World.

Electricity always flows in a closed loop.

In the old days electricity was "flown out there" by generating a lot of voltage.

The current flowed back through the ground.


Now days there are two wires. One that sends the Electrons, the other takes the Electrons back.


Otherwise there is a thing that is known as a "Ground Fault".

Not good.

All the electrons now days just fly by on the power lines that you see driving next to your roads everyday.

Candle
Reality are the hearts and minds of those who try.
Everything that is not illusion is confusion.

box
Quote this message in a reply
Upside Down
Registered User
User ID: 479653
09-10-2019 06:08 AM

Posts: 24,504



Post: #12
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Pasta Lover  Wrote: (09-10-2019 06:03 AM)
Upside Down  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:58 AM)
eh, bullshit babble.

I just don't think the ground system would see any induced currents.

ice... acronym.


current leads voltage?

i forget.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j3okb3kuts

Candle
Reality are the hearts and minds of those who try.
Everything that is not illusion is confusion.

box
Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 443871
09-10-2019 06:08 AM

 



Post: #13
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Pasta Lover  Wrote: (09-10-2019 06:03 AM)
Upside Down  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:58 AM)
eh, bullshit babble.

I just don't think the ground system would see any induced currents.


You'd need a HELL of a lot of current to induce anything more than negligible..
Quote this message in a reply
Pasta Lover
Registered User
User ID: 418981
09-10-2019 06:08 AM

Posts: 8,161



Post: #14
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
I will say this though. If you want to get the crap shocked out of you, touch an un-grounded helicopter. Those things generate a tremendous static charge. Maybe that is what OP is referring to. These turbines could be creating a huge static charge that is transferred into the actual ground.

HMM?
Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 510555
09-10-2019 06:13 AM

 



Post: #15
RE: Ground Loop to detect ground currents?
Pasta Lover  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:39 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (09-10-2019 05:03 AM)
"Ground" currents are when electricity (which has to flow in a loop called a "circuit") returns via any path other than the wires.

GFI circuits detect when the outgoing and returning currents are different (such as when you use a hair dryer in the bathtub) and shut down the circuit when the ground loop through you and the building plumbing is detected.

The neutral (white) is tied to a ground reference usually at the building entry. (black, blue, or red carry voltage, and green is ground), but the neutral and not the ground is supposed to return the current.

In fact the building entry is the only place where neutral and ground should meet. Subpanels should receive separate neutral and ground wires from the main and not be a ground point.

Thanks for the excellent description. You are describing a typical 3 wire system. Hot Neutral and ground. The ground wire isn't supposed to have any current on it because the circuit is completed between the load(hair dryer) and the load center(where the breakers are). In power generation they use three phase as apposed to single phase. When these generators are synced to the grid they pretty much are matched from a frequency, phase and voltage standpoint. I guess depending on whether the wind farm is importing or exporting megaWatts and/or megaVars, these systems have to have a way to import that power. On a diesel generator connected to a grid, when you increase the throttle on the engine, the engine does NOT speed up. It takes more load. It exports megawatts and/or megaVars. If that engine is closely matched and not importing or exporting and you reduce the throttle, it will "windmill". The generator turns into a motor and will push the engine. Only to a certain point though. The generator breaker will eventually trip if you continue to reduce the throttle.

So what happens when the wind turbine suddenly has to import power. Well, it depends on the generator type. Most likely it is a Unsynchronised Synchronous type which doesn't really care. It uses electronics to handle the load variances. Still though, who knows if there could be some bleeding of energy.

More than you wanted to know about wind power:
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/43747/InT...e_dips.pdf
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement









Contact UsConspiracy Forum. No reg. required! Return to TopReturn to ContentRSS Syndication