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Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Disturbed staff
FBI informant.
User ID: 1
03-13-2018 08:42 AM

Posts: 2,005



Post: #16
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
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Not sure who is to blame.

If you're left you're a bleeding heart liberal and if you're right then you're a racist or a nazi.

All the different shades between don't seem to exist anymore. Which of course is nonsense.

In think It's because politicians, opinion makers, etc. have a weird tendency nowadays to give more weight to the 'opinion' of small but loud extremist groups like antifa, blm and white supremacy groups and the like..

Identity politics without really looking anymore for solutions or consensus but just polarization.

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(This post was last modified: 03-13-2018 08:43 AM by Disturbed.) Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 1337
03-13-2018 08:44 AM

 



Post: #17
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Well either way, thank you Anonymous Cowards for being so involved in your politics... Have you thought about running locally? I'm sure you would be a great governor, mayor, or sheriff of whatever town or state you're in! Heartflowers
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LoP Guest
lop guest
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03-13-2018 09:08 AM

 



Post: #18
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Disturbed  Wrote: (03-13-2018 08:42 AM)
Not sure who is to blame.

If you're left you're a bleeding heart liberal and if you're right then you're a racist or a nazi.

All the different shades between don't seem to exist anymore. Which of course is nonsense.

In think It's because politicians, opinion makers, etc. have a weird tendency nowadays to give more weight to the 'opinion' of small but loud extremist groups like antifa, blm and white supremacy groups and the like..

Identity politics without really looking anymore for solutions or consensus but just polarization.

The issue is that we have adopted the American notion of Liberal, and the word is so pervasive, and as misused as the Nazi label....

How many would stop and think is Winston Churchill really a bleeding heart liberal? the real world simply does not gel with what the political, corporate or media elite want people to think, though repetition does seem to be winning the day..

At times it feels, especially when looking at US politics that it's 2 flavours of corporatists fighting each other rather than any other label.. and neither of those are in the middle or on the left or on the right, just on the side of Money.

I guess that was why it was easy for Corbyn's Labour Party in the UK to adopt an actual left wing stance and become very popular, to a point where I honestly think he will be the UKs next PM.

Now that would perhaps be the most amusing outcome... the US allied with a Communist country..
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Disturbed staff
FBI informant.
User ID: 1
03-13-2018 09:12 AM

Posts: 2,005



Post: #19
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (03-13-2018 09:08 AM)
Disturbed  Wrote: (03-13-2018 08:42 AM)
Not sure who is to blame.

If you're left you're a bleeding heart liberal and if you're right then you're a racist or a nazi.

All the different shades between don't seem to exist anymore. Which of course is nonsense.

In think It's because politicians, opinion makers, etc. have a weird tendency nowadays to give more weight to the 'opinion' of small but loud extremist groups like antifa, blm and white supremacy groups and the like..

Identity politics without really looking anymore for solutions or consensus but just polarization.

The issue is that we have adopted the American notion of Liberal, and the word is so pervasive, and as misused as the Nazi label....

How many would stop and think is Winston Churchill really a bleeding heart liberal? the real world simply does not gel with what the political, corporate or media elite want people to think, though repetition does seem to be winning the day..

At times it feels, especially when looking at US politics that it's 2 flavours of corporatists fighting each other rather than any other label.. and neither of those are in the middle or on the left or on the right, just on the side of Money.

I guess that was why it was easy for Corbyn's Labour Party in the UK to adopt an actual left wing stance and become very popular, to a point where I honestly think he will be the UKs next PM.

Now that would perhaps be the most amusing outcome... the US allied with a Communist country..

It's the same here in NL (all over Europe actually)

Strangely (at least to me) only the right wing parties seem to benefit from this polarization.

[Image: mybbsig.php]
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 1337
03-13-2018 09:28 AM

 



Post: #20
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Disturbed  Wrote: (03-13-2018 09:12 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (03-13-2018 09:08 AM)
The issue is that we have adopted the American notion of Liberal, and the word is so pervasive, and as misused as the Nazi label....

How many would stop and think is Winston Churchill really a bleeding heart liberal? the real world simply does not gel with what the political, corporate or media elite want people to think, though repetition does seem to be winning the day..

At times it feels, especially when looking at US politics that it's 2 flavours of corporatists fighting each other rather than any other label.. and neither of those are in the middle or on the left or on the right, just on the side of Money.

I guess that was why it was easy for Corbyn's Labour Party in the UK to adopt an actual left wing stance and become very popular, to a point where I honestly think he will be the UKs next PM.

Now that would perhaps be the most amusing outcome... the US allied with a Communist country..

It's the same here in NL (all over Europe actually)

Strangely (at least to me) only the right wing parties seem to benefit from this polarization.

I think on Mainland Europe like in the US the right is an easier target to hit.. which then creates the illusion that the left is attacking the right.. especially when talking of things like Nationalism..

There are some interesting discussions going on within the UKs left that the EU is the one who created this right wing block as something to bump heads with.. but then the Socialists and Communists don't like the EU either so they are going to be a bit biased..

It is really strange the dominant nationalist groups in the UK are left wing and Pro-EU.. it was the same with Fascism in the 1930s the only feminist/pro-equality political force in the UK where the fascists, which is totally at odds with much of mainland Europe at the time..

Maybe we should be renamed the contrary isles..
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 1337
03-13-2018 10:03 AM

Posts: 12,594



Post: #21
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Disturbed  Wrote: (03-13-2018 09:12 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (03-13-2018 09:08 AM)
The issue is that we have adopted the American notion of Liberal, and the word is so pervasive, and as misused as the Nazi label....

How many would stop and think is Winston Churchill really a bleeding heart liberal? the real world simply does not gel with what the political, corporate or media elite want people to think, though repetition does seem to be winning the day..

At times it feels, especially when looking at US politics that it's 2 flavours of corporatists fighting each other rather than any other label.. and neither of those are in the middle or on the left or on the right, just on the side of Money.

I guess that was why it was easy for Corbyn's Labour Party in the UK to adopt an actual left wing stance and become very popular, to a point where I honestly think he will be the UKs next PM.

Now that would perhaps be the most amusing outcome... the US allied with a Communist country..

It's the same here in NL (all over Europe actually)

Strangely (at least to me) only the right wing parties seem to benefit from this polarization.

wouldn't that sort of point to them creating and then exploiting it?

still possible those doing the exploiting and reaping the rewards are beyond party lines.. that old tptb idea.

the left see malevolent corporatism and the right see smug globalism as these unknown forces controlling the other side and both focus on bringing the population to a new form of technocracy that will enslave the citizens.. this is a very old trick using the fear of the unknown and forcing the population to go to extreme positions and ignore all the available positions in between imo...

...nothing kills compromise and cooperation like being weight down by constant subjective circular argument tethering all discussion to a cycle of bias->fallacy unable to acknowledge moderate positions or objective reasoning.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
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03-13-2018 10:33 AM

 



Post: #22
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (03-13-2018 10:03 AM)
Disturbed  Wrote: (03-13-2018 09:12 AM)
It's the same here in NL (all over Europe actually)

Strangely (at least to me) only the right wing parties seem to benefit from this polarization.

wouldn't that sort of point to them creating and then exploiting it?

still possible those doing the exploiting and reaping the rewards are beyond party lines.. that old tptb idea.

the left see malevolent corporatism and the right see smug globalism as these unknown forces controlling the other side and both focus on bringing the population to a new form of technocracy that will enslave the citizens.. this is a very old trick using the fear of the unknown and forcing the population to go to extreme positions and ignore all the available positions in between imo...

...nothing kills compromise and cooperation like being weight down by constant subjective circular argument tethering all discussion to a cycle of bias->fallacy unable to acknowledge moderate positions or objective reasoning.

While I know this perhaps outside the realms of your experience, have you heard of "The Servile State" by Hillaire Belloc... he wrote it (before I search) in 1910.. and was as much a prediction of where he saw socialist and capitalism going..

He believed instead of fighting each other to death with one coming out as victor that they would merge instead, and that merger would lead to people being again enslaved.. Orwell noted his predictions where starting to come true in the 1930s, but also noted (and I agree with) that he has a really boring writing style, so if you can get beyond that it is worth a read.. Hayek took Bellocs notions a bit further in his works "the Road to Serfdom" which is also worth a read...

If you don't know, Hillaire Belloc is one considered by many to be a liberal icon.. so if you are wrapped on either side of the modern slagging match on liberalism then perhaps it is not worth the bother as they won't gel with either sides views..
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 1337
03-13-2018 11:43 AM

Posts: 12,594



Post: #23
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (03-13-2018 10:33 AM)
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (03-13-2018 10:03 AM)
wouldn't that sort of point to them creating and then exploiting it?

still possible those doing the exploiting and reaping the rewards are beyond party lines.. that old tptb idea.

the left see malevolent corporatism and the right see smug globalism as these unknown forces controlling the other side and both focus on bringing the population to a new form of technocracy that will enslave the citizens.. this is a very old trick using the fear of the unknown and forcing the population to go to extreme positions and ignore all the available positions in between imo...

...nothing kills compromise and cooperation like being weight down by constant subjective circular argument tethering all discussion to a cycle of bias->fallacy unable to acknowledge moderate positions or objective reasoning.

While I know this perhaps outside the realms of your experience, have you heard of "The Servile State" by Hillaire Belloc... he wrote it (before I search) in 1910.. and was as much a prediction of where he saw socialist and capitalism going..

He believed instead of fighting each other to death with one coming out as victor that they would merge instead, and that merger would lead to people being again enslaved.. Orwell noted his predictions where starting to come true in the 1930s, but also noted (and I agree with) that he has a really boring writing style, so if you can get beyond that it is worth a read.. Hayek took Bellocs notions a bit further in his works "the Road to Serfdom" which is also worth a read...

If you don't know, Hillaire Belloc is one considered by many to be a liberal icon.. so if you are wrapped on either side of the modern slagging match on liberalism then perhaps it is not worth the bother as they won't gel with either sides views..

I have heard of them of course.. I tend to keep away from these dated ideologies. Pays to have of an brief overview of them so , thanks.

Marx for example.. I have read none of it but I know my ideas of liberal values of the western liberal democracy framework and social economic policy and humanisim brings the product of our environment to the table which connects it with Marx but it just one of the many variables as far as I am concerned. Anyway poor attempt at making this about me but interesting none the less.

Anon

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LoP Guest
lop guest
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03-13-2018 01:47 PM

 



Post: #24
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Leftists love infiltrating, undermining, and infecting other groups with their marxism.

No there will be no compromise. Conservatives, at least true conservatives, are not going to meet you halfway on your marxism. You can take your political correctness, illegal immigrants, snowflake college students, and minority whining and shove it up your ass.

Want to build a road to the right? Completely abandon the marxist class struggle. It's not about the group you affiliate with. It's about you, the individual making your own way through life. Take responsibility for your own actions, stop pushing for whatever pathetic underdog group you think is being victimized, and maybe conservatives will acknowledge you as something other than a piece of crap stuck to their shoe.
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
☇☇Vocem sine nomine audivit!☇☇
User ID: 1337
03-13-2018 02:04 PM

Posts: 12,594



Post: #25
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (03-13-2018 01:47 PM)
Leftists love infiltrating, undermining, and infecting other groups with their marxism.

No there will be no compromise. Conservatives, at least true conservatives, are not going to meet you halfway on your marxism. You can take your political correctness, illegal immigrants, snowflake college students, and minority whining and shove it up your ass.

Want to build a road to the right? Completely abandon the marxist class struggle. It's not about the group you affiliate with. It's about you, the individual making your own way through life. Take responsibility for your own actions, stop pushing for whatever pathetic underdog group you think is being victimized, and maybe conservatives will acknowledge you as something other than a piece of crap stuck to their shoe.

spoken like a true fundamentalist extremist spokesperson for the narcissist collectivists .. get load of this guy.

how about you stop pushing for your pathetic underdog minority group you think is being victimized like poor hardly done by self entitled white men with chips on their shoulders.

Rofl

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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 1337
03-13-2018 02:06 PM

 



Post: #26
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (03-13-2018 02:04 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (03-13-2018 01:47 PM)
Leftists love infiltrating, undermining, and infecting other groups with their marxism.

No there will be no compromise. Conservatives, at least true conservatives, are not going to meet you halfway on your marxism. You can take your political correctness, illegal immigrants, snowflake college students, and minority whining and shove it up your ass.

Want to build a road to the right? Completely abandon the marxist class struggle. It's not about the group you affiliate with. It's about you, the individual making your own way through life. Take responsibility for your own actions, stop pushing for whatever pathetic underdog group you think is being victimized, and maybe conservatives will acknowledge you as something other than a piece of crap stuck to their shoe.

spoken like a true fundamentalist extremist spokesperson for the narcissist collectivists .. get load of this guy.

how about you stop pushing for your pathetic underdog minority group you think is being victimized like poor hardly done by self entitled white men with chips on their shoulders.

Rofl

https://voices.uchicago.edu/dangeroustho...rojection/
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 1337
03-13-2018 02:17 PM

 



Post: #27
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Disturbed  Wrote: (03-13-2018 08:42 AM)
Not sure who is to blame.
If you're left you're a bleeding heart liberal and if you're right then you're a racist or a nazi. All the different shades between don't seem to exist anymore. Which of course is nonsense. In think It's because politicians, opinion makers, etc. have a weird tendency nowadays to give more weight to the 'opinion' of small but loud extremist groups like antifa, blm and white supremacy groups and the like..Identity politics without really looking anymore for solutions or consensus but just polarization.


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LoP Guest
lop guest
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03-13-2018 02:18 PM

 



Post: #28
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?



Bump
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 1337
03-13-2018 02:19 PM

 



Post: #29
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Smugness about their own stupidity that is.
The fact that these idiots think they can push people around without blowback is problematic enough.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 1337
03-13-2018 02:19 PM

 



Post: #30
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?



Lmao
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