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Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 450624
Yesterday 05:22 PM

 



Post: #61
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
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Tommy Pastrami  Wrote: (Yesterday 04:27 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (Yesterday 03:29 PM)
And what are those things smart ass?

The issues that are ignored by both parties are monetary policy, endless war, vaccines, gmos, privacy, and the growing police state. No matter who is in power, those things will march on without opposition.

What are you talking about? Americans love war just because your dumbass generation lost Vietnam.

Americans were built on war. It's in our blood. If we aren't killing others, we kill our self's. Always has been always will be.

As for police state, what police state? Try calling the cops in almost any major city and see how long it takes for them to show up if they do at all they'll probably shoot you for calling in the first place.

I do agree, the police in the US are pretty useless. we have millions of illegals coming across the border and they do nothing yet you as an American shoot your asshole neighbor they are ready to throw away the key on your ass.

I am not at all for anarchy but there needs to be at least one day of a purge each year to get our American blood pumping and our frustrations out and perhaps get rid of some of the low life families that circle around our communities.
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House of M
M Theory Cubed
User ID: 448853
Yesterday 06:19 PM

Posts: 2,334



Post: #62
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Thought provoking article! Right off I want to respond to one of the questions as I've highlighted below.


spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (03-13-2018 02:43 AM)
“You Are the Problem”

Quote:“To say over and over, both formally as the Democratic Party and also rhetorically as the pundit class, ‘You all are wrong about what you need and want,’ is not doing it.” — Katherine Mangu-Ward

“It’s hard to tell who started it,” Katherine Mangu-Ward wrote in a Sunday opinion column for the New York Times. She was referring to the political climate in 2018, and the cultural conversation surrounding it, especially online. Mangu-Ward, the editor in chief of the libertarian magazine Reason, believes that there are two groups responsible for this undeniably depressing state of affairs—liberals (“cozy in their elite enclaves on the coasts, who burrowed down into self-righteousness, lecturing working-class Republicans about how they misunderstand their own interests”) and the modern right (“reared in the meme swamps of Reddit and 4chan, who emerged blinking into the daylight of politics and set about baiting anyone who disagreed with their chosen Republican king”). The smugness of the former group and the trollishness of the latter have fed off one another, she writes, creating the vicious cycle that is our politics today.

I recently spoke by phone with Mangu-Ward. During the course of our conversation, which has been edited and condensed for clarity, we discussed how Donald Trump gets away with criticizing America, whether we are too politically correct about Trump voters, and if it is possible to avoid being smug when telling people you think they are voting against their own self-interest.

Isaac Chotiner: You write in your piece that, “The problem isn’t just filter bubbles, echo chambers or alternative facts. It’s tone: When the loudest voices on the left talk about people on the right as either beyond the pale or dupes of their betters, it is with an air of barely concealed smugness. Right-wingers, for their part, increasingly respond with a churlish ‘Oh, yeah? Hold my beer,’ and then double down on whatever politically incorrect sentiment brought on the disdain in the first place.” The way that’s written implies that the right-wing attitude that we see online and from the president is a response to a smug leftism. Is that how you see this—that essentially the right is merely reacting to something?

Katherine Mangu-Ward: The sentence that’s at the very top of the piece is, “It’s hard to tell who started it.” I actually do believe that. I think it is not a case of a single original sin that sent us cascading down into the rhetorical swamps where we now live. But I do find that, although I am demographically and in many ways even ideologically sympathetic to people on the left, in this story, in the story of smug versus trolls, I find myself sympathetic to the right, sympathetic to this response of, “Fine, if you’re going to see me that way, I’ll double down on it. I’ll be as bad as you think I am.”

The idea, then, is that people are accused of being racist, or see other people being called racist, and as a response to that say, “You know what? I’m going to vote for a racist, or I’m going to be part of a political movement that looks the other way about racism.” If that is actually going on, and let’s grant for the sake of argument that it is, it’s a very strange way of operating in the world.

I guess I would challenge the way that you set that up. I think that when people feel that they’ve been accused of something horrible, like racism, or that their peers or friends have, that they respond negatively, and that they respond by maybe overstating their own case, or mocking the other side. I don’t think that it’s an accurate mental picture to say they responded by voting for a racist. I think they say, “You on the left are either overstating or overvaluing that particular aspect of Donald Trump. However, he has a lot of other attributes that you don’t value at all, and you’re wrong to not value those things.”

You say that smug people on the coasts, to speak broadly, look at people who vote for Republicans, white working-class people, and say, “You guys don’t understand your own economic interests.” That comes across as smug, and that makes people respond in a certain way. But if that’s your objective analysis of what’s going on, how do you think we should have that conversation? The sincere belief of many people on the left is that working-class people on the right are being taken advantage of, in this case by a con man.

The definitive piece on this, which I didn’t explicitly reference, but consulted, is Emmett Rensin’s Vox piece on the “smug style” in American liberalism. I find that piece to be a very compelling account of the demographic reasons why liberals believe that thing that you just described, [which is] that essentially the liberal coalition has been hollowed out. While it used to be a coalition that spread more evenly across different socioeconomic classes and a broader geographical area, it’s now rich, white people and then people of color, to oversimplify it dramatically. He says, and I think it’s true, that there’s a certain amount of baffled resentment at the class of people that abandoned the left. It was a coalition that made sense to the rest of the left before, when it was intact, and so the natural inclination then is to say, “Something’s gone wrong that those people left us, and it must be that they’re confused and were right before.”

I think that that explanation explains the weirdly emotional approach to this. It explains why people aren’t just like, “Oh, that’s a bummer,” or like, “You seem to be under a misapprehension,” but are like, “Screw you, you idiots,” because they were abandoned.


I think the flip side of that is that if you talk to conservative intellectuals, they don’t know what happened in their party. They are very confused about what happened. The sort of Never Trumpism among National Review types and others shows that they too are confused about what happened with that demographic.

more:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018...imate.html

This smugness as a reaction to never ending circular fallacy from the right is what is causing the downward spiral in political dialogue .. It's an old problem that spiraled out of control and then has been played for the last 20 years if not longer.

Is there a way out?

The migration of working class people from the left to the right began with the Vietnam War. Democrats could ALWAYS count on getting the farm/labor vote. This is in fact what the party is ABOUT.

The war split Americans ideologically. The "hippies" were the catalyst for the anti-war movement which spread very quickly. People were split by what it means to be an American, whether patriotism includes dying for a proxy war that was ideologically questionable, as well as tactically overwhelming. This split was not along party lines. The Republicans started a "Patriotism" campaign to malign anti war movement, and drew those who supported the war unto themselves. That grew their base tremendously with those who self identified as patriots.

The problem is, the expectation for improved conditions for the working class, better wages, etc.. is now on the Republicans as well, because that is what their constituency expects. Can they deliver?

Holy Mackerel Catman!


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LoP Guest
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User ID: 447148
Yesterday 06:24 PM

 



Post: #63
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Props AC! You actually made a good thread!
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House of M
M Theory Cubed
User ID: 448853
Yesterday 06:44 PM

Posts: 2,334



Post: #64
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
To put it simply, the way I was taught as a child...

Republican Party exists to serve the interests of corporations and wealthy Americans. Democratic party exists to serve the interests of the "little guy."

The one thing we can ALL agree on, is that lately NEITHER side has been doing a very good job of serving the "little guy" and that is US! THIS is the common denominator regardless of which side you take, is an expectation that the people we elect represent ALL OF US. Gasp!!

We ALL want Big Money out of the game, or proportionate to the same rights and privileges that the REST of us have.

Holy Mackerel Catman!


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Tommy Pastrami
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Yesterday 06:47 PM

Posts: 3,039



Post: #65
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
House of M  Wrote: (Yesterday 06:44 PM)
To put it simply, the way I was taught as a child...

Republican Party exists to serve the interests of corporations and wealthy Americans. Democratic party exists to serve the interests of the "little guy."

The one thing we can ALL agree on, is that lately NEITHER side has been doing a very good job of serving the "little guy" and that is US! THIS is the common denominator regardless of which side you take, is an expectation that the people we elect represent ALL OF US. Gasp!!

We ALL want Big Money out of the game, or proportionate to the same rights and privileges that the REST of us have.
So keep on voting for people who are against everything you're for. That'll make things different.

"The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. He who reads nothing will still learn the great facts, and the details are all false." ~Thomas Jefferson
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House of M
M Theory Cubed
User ID: 448853
Yesterday 06:50 PM

Posts: 2,334



Post: #66
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
Tommy Pastrami  Wrote: (Yesterday 06:47 PM)
House of M  Wrote: (Yesterday 06:44 PM)
To put it simply, the way I was taught as a child...

Republican Party exists to serve the interests of corporations and wealthy Americans. Democratic party exists to serve the interests of the "little guy."

The one thing we can ALL agree on, is that lately NEITHER side has been doing a very good job of serving the "little guy" and that is US! THIS is the common denominator regardless of which side you take, is an expectation that the people we elect represent ALL OF US. Gasp!!

We ALL want Big Money out of the game, or proportionate to the same rights and privileges that the REST of us have.
So keep on voting for people who are against everything you're for. That'll make things different.

ALL of the candidates have been bought and paid for, EXCEPT Bernie Sanders.

Holy Mackerel Catman!


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Tommy Pastrami
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User ID: 402822
Yesterday 06:51 PM

Posts: 3,039



Post: #67
RE: Is liberal smugness to blame for our god-awful political climate?
House of M  Wrote: (Yesterday 06:50 PM)
Tommy Pastrami  Wrote: (Yesterday 06:47 PM)
So keep on voting for people who are against everything you're for. That'll make things different.

ALL of the candidates have been bought and paid for, EXCEPT Bernie Sanders.

Yes. Which is why I don't vote.

"The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. He who reads nothing will still learn the great facts, and the details are all false." ~Thomas Jefferson
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