Alleged Giuliani pre-emptive pardon scheme is ‘extreme violation’ of ‘fundamental constitutional principles’: Harvard Law professor
"On Tuesday’s edition of CNN’s “OutFront,” Harvard Law professor Laurence Tribe broke down the implications of the new report that Rudy Giuliani and President Donald Trump discussed a possible pre-emptive pardon.
“So Rudy Giuliani, we know, is among the Trump allies asking for a pardon, a pre-emptive pardon, and we’re also getting breaking news about the DOJ, now, tonight, professor, investigating a potential bribery scheme for a presidential pardon,” said anchor Erin Burnett. “We understand this investigation was launched back in August. Do you connect these dots?”
“It seems to me, it’s very important,” said Tribe. “Everybody agrees that you can’t pardon someone ahead of the time that they actually commit a crime. That kind of preemptive pardon is impossible, and yet when you are engaged in bargaining with somebody about a possible pardon at a time when they are still engaged in all kinds of shenanigans, you are essentially saying go ahead, commit crimes if you want, and retrospective I’ll give you the kind of sweeping pardon that I have now given Michael Flynn.”
“It’s an extreme abuse of the pardon power, almost as extreme as the self-pardon that Hannity has now urged Trump to grant himself,” added Tribe. “It’s all an absolute violation of fundamental constitutional principles.”
Rick Gates: Convicted
Paul Manafort: Convicted
George Papadopoulos: Convicted
Mike Flynn: accepted guilt, pardoned
Michael Cohen: Convicted
Roger Stone: accepted guilt, granted clemency
Steve Bannon: Arrested
Donald Trump: Impeached, Loser - one termer!
Whatsamatta_U Registered User User ID: 567738 12-02-2020 04:20 AM
Posts: 5,590
Trump will pardon his family and cronies. It has already begun with Flynn and there will be lots more to come. POTUS pardons can even be done in secret since there is no law requiring their announcement.
Even this pardon being investigated will probably be enacted by presidential order. Since there is nothing anyone can do about. And there are most likely many others just like it.
Then Trump will step down just before the inauguration and be pardoned by Pence
That will cover any and all crimes Trump committed during his presidency including these illegal pay-to-play pardons
That's why the SDNY and DC indictments are so important since presidential pardons do not cover State crimes
SDNY will indict for bank fraud, insurance fraud, tax fraud, and hopefully money laundering
DC will indict for campaign finance fraud
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2020 04:35 AM by Whatsamatta_U.)
He Man Another day in paradise User ID: 509202 12-02-2020 06:02 PM
Posts: 34,241
Trump's criminally corrupt family and cronies should have to pay for their crimes like anybody else, if they did these tax crimes and many other possible crimes, they should be investigated and charged if the investigations find they broke laws.
Then they need criminal trials and if found guilty, convictions, fines, jail or prison time like anybody else. Instead Trump is going to use his pardon powers to help them sail above all of that and get to smirk and pretend they are actually innocent.
They will still face state and possible local charges that cannot be pardoned away by crime family boss Daddy Trump. So we see if these pardons are legal in the courts, pardons cannot be issued with corrupt intent.
Trump Reportedly Considering Pardons For 3 Of His Children And Rudy Giuliani
The pardons could benefit Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump, as well as son-in-law Jared Kushner.
"President Donald Trump has discussed pardoning three of his children and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani before he leaves office and before any of them have been charged with potential crimes, according to several reports on Tuesday evening.
ABC News and The New York Times both reported that Trump has discussed the pre-emptive pardons with advisers, expressing fear that his successor, President-elect Joe Biden, would unjustly target them when he assumes office in January. The pardons could benefit Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump, as well as Ivanka’s husband, Jared Kushner. Ivanka Trump and Kushner have also served as White House advisers in the Trump administration.
Trump has begun to issue pardons and has granted clemency to former aides and longtime supporters. Last month, he pardoned former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who twice pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with a Russian official during the transition before Trump took office in 2017.
None of the five has been charged with a crime, and it’s unclear what impropriety a pardon would seek to guard against. Presidential pardons provide protections against federal crimes, but they do not protect against state or local ones. Pardons are traditionally sought by applications to a federal pardon attorney at least five years after a conviction or release from prison.
Trump’s older children have run afoul of federal investigators multiple times during his tenure in the White House. Donald Trump Jr. faced scrutiny over his contacts with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, although he was not charged. Kushner also drew attention when he omitted foreign contacts from his application for White House security clearances. Intelligence officials raised concerns about granting Kushner with the access, but Trump intervened to unilaterally grant the top-secret clearance.
Giuliani, one of Trump’s most vocal surrogates and a key figure behind the discredited attempt to undercut the results of the 2020 election, has reportedly asked the White House directly for a pardon in advance of any criminal charges (Giuliani tweeted that the claim, published by the Times, was “#fakenews”)."
Rick Gates: Convicted
Paul Manafort: Convicted
George Papadopoulos: Convicted
Mike Flynn: accepted guilt, pardoned
Michael Cohen: Convicted
Roger Stone: accepted guilt, granted clemency
Steve Bannon: Arrested
Donald Trump: Impeached, Loser - one termer!
LoP Guest lop guest User ID: 569303 12-02-2020 06:07 PM
Trump's criminally corrupt family and cronies should have to pay for their crimes like anybody else, if they did these tax crimes and many other possible crimes, they should be investigated and charged if the investigations find they broke laws.
Then they need criminal trials and if found guilty, convictions, fines, jail or prison time like anybody else. Instead Trump is going to use his pardon powers to help them sail above all of that and get to smirk and pretend they are actually innocent.
They will still face state and possible local charges that cannot be pardoned away by crime family boss Daddy Trump. So we see if these pardons are legal in the courts, pardons cannot be issued with corrupt intent.
Trump Reportedly Considering Pardons For 3 Of His Children And Rudy Giuliani
The pardons could benefit Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump, as well as son-in-law Jared Kushner.
"President Donald Trump has discussed pardoning three of his children and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani before he leaves office and before any of them have been charged with potential crimes, according to several reports on Tuesday evening.
ABC News and The New York Times both reported that Trump has discussed the pre-emptive pardons with advisers, expressing fear that his successor, President-elect Joe Biden, would unjustly target them when he assumes office in January. The pardons could benefit Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump, as well as Ivanka’s husband, Jared Kushner. Ivanka Trump and Kushner have also served as White House advisers in the Trump administration.
Trump has begun to issue pardons and has granted clemency to former aides and longtime supporters. Last month, he pardoned former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who twice pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with a Russian official during the transition before Trump took office in 2017.
None of the five has been charged with a crime, and it’s unclear what impropriety a pardon would seek to guard against. Presidential pardons provide protections against federal crimes, but they do not protect against state or local ones. Pardons are traditionally sought by applications to a federal pardon attorney at least five years after a conviction or release from prison.
Trump’s older children have run afoul of federal investigators multiple times during his tenure in the White House. Donald Trump Jr. faced scrutiny over his contacts with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, although he was not charged. Kushner also drew attention when he omitted foreign contacts from his application for White House security clearances. Intelligence officials raised concerns about granting Kushner with the access, but Trump intervened to unilaterally grant the top-secret clearance.
Giuliani, one of Trump’s most vocal surrogates and a key figure behind the discredited attempt to undercut the results of the 2020 election, has reportedly asked the White House directly for a pardon in advance of any criminal charges (Giuliani tweeted that the claim, published by the Times, was “#fakenews”)."
Where's the investigation into Hunter Biden and associates?
I guess if you don't investigate, you don't find the crime, convict, and have to pardon.
Hell with the Trump family, all it takes is an allegation to need a pardon.
The left hate the Trump family so much for screwing up their schemes that they'll be having investigations of Barron's children's children.
This is like one of those generational things you hear about.
LoP Guest lop guest User ID: 520171 12-02-2020 06:11 PM
Trump's criminally corrupt family and cronies should have to pay for their crimes like anybody else, if they did these tax crimes and many other possible crimes, they should be investigated and charged if the investigations find they broke laws.
Then they need criminal trials and if found guilty, convictions, fines, jail or prison time like anybody else. Instead Trump is going to use his pardon powers to help them sail above all of that and get to smirk and pretend they are actually innocent.
They will still face state and possible local charges that cannot be pardoned away by crime family boss Daddy Trump. So we see if these pardons are legal in the courts, pardons cannot be issued with corrupt intent.
Trump Reportedly Considering Pardons For 3 Of His Children And Rudy Giuliani
The pardons could benefit Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump, as well as son-in-law Jared Kushner.
"President Donald Trump has discussed pardoning three of his children and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani before he leaves office and before any of them have been charged with potential crimes, according to several reports on Tuesday evening.
ABC News and The New York Times both reported that Trump has discussed the pre-emptive pardons with advisers, expressing fear that his successor, President-elect Joe Biden, would unjustly target them when he assumes office in January. The pardons could benefit Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump, as well as Ivanka’s husband, Jared Kushner. Ivanka Trump and Kushner have also served as White House advisers in the Trump administration.
Trump has begun to issue pardons and has granted clemency to former aides and longtime supporters. Last month, he pardoned former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who twice pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with a Russian official during the transition before Trump took office in 2017.
None of the five has been charged with a crime, and it’s unclear what impropriety a pardon would seek to guard against. Presidential pardons provide protections against federal crimes, but they do not protect against state or local ones. Pardons are traditionally sought by applications to a federal pardon attorney at least five years after a conviction or release from prison.
Trump’s older children have run afoul of federal investigators multiple times during his tenure in the White House. Donald Trump Jr. faced scrutiny over his contacts with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, although he was not charged. Kushner also drew attention when he omitted foreign contacts from his application for White House security clearances. Intelligence officials raised concerns about granting Kushner with the access, but Trump intervened to unilaterally grant the top-secret clearance.
Giuliani, one of Trump’s most vocal surrogates and a key figure behind the discredited attempt to undercut the results of the 2020 election, has reportedly asked the White House directly for a pardon in advance of any criminal charges (Giuliani tweeted that the claim, published by the Times, was “#fakenews”)."
They all do highly questionable pardons on their way out.
Democrat and Republican. Same/Same.
(Examples - Clinton and Marc Rich. Obama and Oscar Lopez Rivera).
However ... Trump is saying he'll run again in 2024.
And any controversial pardons now could come back to haunt him in 2024.
So that MAY keep the number down somewhat.
Although with Trumps ego, it just as easily might not.
I guess we'll see.
"They notice that you notice" - Mothman Prophecies
A tradition cannot make an historical claim and then refuse to have it evaluated by history
Cowboy Flights of Fancy User ID: 389781 12-02-2020 06:33 PM
Posts: 16,930
Trump’s family has criminal exposure for state charges — even if Trump pardons them: Ex-prosecutor
"On CNN Wednesday morning, former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti confirmed that President Donald Trump’s family would still be vulnerable to state-level criminal charges, even if President Donald Trump issued them a pre-emptive pardon.
“Would there be any state charges, right, because the presidential pardon does not cover state issues, and of course that’s an issue for the president himself because you have the Manhattan DA looking into his business practices, but do Giuliani, Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner face any potential legal liability in state courts?” asked anchor Jim Sciutto.
“Well, we know that in New York they are looking at the Trump Organization, and obviously Trump’s family members are high-ranking, you know, officials in that organization,” said Mariotti. “In addition, some of those Trump family members have been interviewed or sought an interview, for example, of Eric Trump. As for Giuliani, most likely not. He is under investigation by the Southern District of New York, that’s a federal investigation and that might explain why Giuliani is so eager for Trump to potentially consider these pardons.”
Rick Gates: Convicted
Paul Manafort: Convicted
George Papadopoulos: Convicted
Mike Flynn: accepted guilt, pardoned
Michael Cohen: Convicted
Roger Stone: accepted guilt, granted clemency
Steve Bannon: Arrested
Donald Trump: Impeached, Loser - one termer!
He Man Another day in paradise User ID: 509202 12-02-2020 06:43 PM
Posts: 34,241
Good Fodder for lefties to slobber at the bit, but will amount to be a nothing burger as always.
Biden (if he makes it to Inauguration Day) will not go after Trump despite pressure by democrats.
He has said so himself. "Just wants to move on."
Of course he does. I'd want a low profile too if I'd just stolen an election.
Democrats' "anonymous" sources don't cut the mustard, and they've cried wolf too many times.
He knows the consequences should he set his DOJ against Trump in this nation. It would NOT be pretty.
It would not be pretty for Trump and his corrupt family.
Biden does not have to "set" his DOJ on Trump, plenty of cases will come up from various ongoing and future investigations. All he has to do and will do is say he is not going to interfere with his DOJ, which is what a president is supposed to do.
Then they can investigate and bring charges as they feel they meet criminal case determinations.
If Trump calls for violence or if his violent followers decide to attempt violent acts out of anger at what the state courts and the DOJ decide to do in pressing charges against Trump, his family and corrupt cronies, they will be stopped and investigated and charged with the crimes they commit.
Joe Biden is not afraid of Trump or his idiot militant chumps.
Making LOP Great again since 06-07-2013!
Rick Gates: Convicted
Paul Manafort: Convicted
George Papadopoulos: Convicted
Mike Flynn: accepted guilt, pardoned
Michael Cohen: Convicted
Roger Stone: accepted guilt, granted clemency
Steve Bannon: Arrested
Donald Trump: Impeached, Loser - one termer!
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2020 06:44 PM by He Man.)
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