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Do you have Asperger's?
AtomIcarus
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User ID: 390729
07-17-2017 07:46 PM

Posts: 12,371



Post: #121
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
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LoP Guest  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:43 PM)
AtomIcarus  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:37 PM)
I was brought up to never interrupt people when they are talking and it has been a huge burden on me and in my social life. People in conversations frequently interrupt each other all the time. It is the social norm. Due to this, I find myself never being able to talk in conversations. Everyone talks non-stop without even taking a breath or a break, or asking questions. I try very hard to make sure others have a chance to speak, but nobody reciprocates.

Ive found myself wanting to get into a conversation if I feel like I have the solution they are looking for. but find myself drowned out with no chance to get in, theres like no opening.

I have even stood frozen when people asked how to do something or asked for directions and no one knew the answer but I happened to know and the opportunity passed me up cause they wouldnt stop talking

Their loss.

Maybe that's why we prefer forums and social media to real-life conversations.

Some people are so painfully good that they would rather be right than to be pleasant. --L. C. Ball
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 397198
07-17-2017 07:47 PM

 



Post: #122
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
Alpha Omega  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:43 PM)
singing spider2  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:31 PM)
if it was only for social processing then why technology, astronomy and all that?
and why all the logic and math?
nah, human brains evolved to process any kind of information

Can you provide a reasonable scenario where an early hominid would have had any benefit whatsoever from having a brain better suited for technology, astronomy, logic, and math?

Isn't it pretty obvious that can't have been the driving force, since a hominid individual with a brain more capable for math would have lived and dies without ever getting to use that capacity?

I think the fact brains CAN be used to process any kind of information is just a lucky accident, and their original use was social processing.

There seems to be some scientific studies that support this idea, such as this one:

The role of the human prefrontal cortex in social cognition and moral judgment
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20350167

"Social cognition" is precisely what I'm talking about here, and "moral judgment" is really all about figuring out which actions will be acceptable and rewarded by the group, so just another form of social processing.

And this happens in the prefrontal cortex, which is the latest addition to our brain, the part that separates us from our monkey-like ancestors.

Theres already been German Engineers back in WW2 that confessed their technology for rocketry and computers came from aliens but thats another discussion altogether. It sounds logical for me that were getting help from somewhere else. It doesnt make sense that overnight in 100 years we go from horse and buggy to stealth bomber.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 397198
07-17-2017 07:48 PM

 



Post: #123
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
AtomIcarus  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:46 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:43 PM)
Ive found myself wanting to get into a conversation if I feel like I have the solution they are looking for. but find myself drowned out with no chance to get in, theres like no opening.

I have even stood frozen when people asked how to do something or asked for directions and no one knew the answer but I happened to know and the opportunity passed me up cause they wouldnt stop talking

Their loss.

Maybe that's why we prefer forums and social media to real-life conversations.

yup.
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AtomIcarus
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User ID: 390729
07-17-2017 07:48 PM

Posts: 12,371



Post: #124
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
I've always lived by the old saw, "People have two ears and one mouth. Use them in that proportion and people will love you for it."

Well, they love me, but they don't really know me. It seems nobody ever really wants to get to know the real me.

Some people are so painfully good that they would rather be right than to be pleasant. --L. C. Ball
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singing spider2
Kraut! und Rüben!
User ID: 423945
07-17-2017 07:55 PM

Posts: 1,180



Post: #125
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
Alpha Omega  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:43 PM)
singing spider2  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:31 PM)
if it was only for social processing then why technology, astronomy and all that?
and why all the logic and math?
nah, human brains evolved to process any kind of information

Can you provide a reasonable scenario where an early hominid would have had any benefit whatsoever from having a brain better suited for technology, astronomy, logic, and math?

Isn't it pretty obvious that can't have been the driving force in brain evolution, since a hominid individual with a brain more capable for math would have lived and died without ever getting to use that capacity?

I think the fact brains CAN be used to process any kind of information is just a lucky accident, and their original use was social processing.

There seems to be some scientific studies that support this idea, such as this one:

The role of the human prefrontal cortex in social cognition and moral judgment
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20350167

"Social cognition" is precisely what I'm talking about here, and "moral judgment" is really all about figuring out which actions will be acceptable and rewarded by the group, so just another form of social processing.

And this happens in the prefrontal cortex, which is the latest addition to our brain, the part that separates us from our monkey-like ancestors.

you need a lot of brain and observational skills to produce stone tools
or to know where, when and what to hunt and gather
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Alpha Omega
Friendship is Magic
User ID: 419000
07-17-2017 07:57 PM

Posts: 4,905



Post: #126
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
To those of you who speak about having trouble with the "rhythm" of conversations with normies, I have the following to say:

I used to be like that, but I have learned to become almost fully functional in this regard. It can be done!

The entire trick is TO NOT THINK while you are socializing with normies!

As an Aspie, you are constantly compartmentalizing yourself in your own head. You are at the same time an actor, and an observer. There is meta processing going on in your head, as you constantly monitor yourself and analyze your own actions, and the response you get from these actions. And that's the reason you are good at identifying problems and finding solutions: you are emotionally detached and observe the world and yourself from a neutral standpoint.

But you can't do that highly advanced mental processing, and process social cues at the same time! It's like walking and chewing bubble gum at the same time - can't be done!

All you need to learn to interact with normies on their terms, is to figure out how to put your normal mental processing on hold as you speak with them. Don't analyze anything! Not what they are saying, and not what you are saying yourself. Just open you mouth and speak!

You see, the social processing is the natural thing for the brain to do, so it is mostly effortless and requires very little conscious effort. Just by relaxing the brain from the strict discipline you constantly force on it to make it think logically and analyze stuff, just by NOT DOING THAT, your brain automatically slips back to its default programming and starts to process social cues for you.

Learn to do this simple thing (not thinking while talking with normies), and you'll find you can achieve at least 50 % proficiency in the social skills. Which is good enough! Normies will stop seeing you as weird or threatening and start being receptive to your ideas.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 08:04 PM by Alpha Omega.) Quote this message in a reply
Alpha Omega
Friendship is Magic
User ID: 419000
07-17-2017 08:03 PM

Posts: 4,905



Post: #127
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
singing spider2  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:55 PM)
you need a lot of brain and observational skills to produce stone tools
or to know where, when and what to hunt and gather

True. So add that to social processing as something the brain was originally evolved to do - observing nature and producing simple tools (even if the rate of innovation with these tools was practically zero).

But if you look into human tribes currently living on a stone age level you'll find they have one thing in common: they have very low mathematical-logical ability. It's common for them to lack the ability to even count to three!

Which is evidence doing logic is not the original job the brain was meant to do.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 397198
07-17-2017 08:05 PM

 



Post: #128
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
Alpha Omega  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:57 PM)
To those of you who speak about having trouble with the "rhythm" of conversations with normies, I have the following to say:

I used to be like that, but I have learned to become almost fully functional in this regard. It can be done!

The entire trick is TO NOT THINK while you are socializing with normies!

As an Aspie, you are constantly compartmentalizing yourself in your own head. You are at the same time an actor, and an observer. There is meta processing going on in your head, as you constantly monitor yourself and analyze your own actions, and the response you get from these actions. And that's the reason you are good at identifying problems and finding solutions: you are emotionally detached and observe the world and yourself from a neutral standpoint.

But you can't do that highly advanced mental processing, and process social cues at the same time! It's like walking and chewing bubble gum at the same time - can't be done!

All you need to learn to interact with normies on their term, is to figure out how to put your normal mental processing on hold as you speak with them. Don't analyze anything! Not what they are saying, and not what you are saying yourself. Just open you mouth and speak!

You see, the social processing is the natural thing for the brain to do, so it is mostly effortless and requires very little conscious effort. Just by relaxing the brain from the strict discipline you constantly force on it to make it think logically and analyze stuff, just by NOT DOING THAT, your brain automatically slips back to its default programming and starts to process social cues for you.

Learn to do this simple thing (not thinking while talking with normies), and you'll find you can achieve at least 50 % proficiency in the social skills. Which is good enough! Normies will stop seeing you as weird or threatening and start being receptive to your ideas.

This is so spot on, I often go thru scenes in movies in my head when Im with someone, where theres small talk to come up with ideas on what to say when Im conversing. I also retrieve mental recollection of body language and hand gestures in my memory so I can try and pretend im nornal and Im so constantly rehearsing .

Im also envisioning the conversation in 3rd person and at all angles and then rewinding and doing the analyzing thing to try and solve a solution right then and there when all the other person wanted to do was vent or share.

Ill try your advice and see what happens.
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clv
lop guest
User ID: 385917
07-17-2017 08:06 PM

 



Post: #129
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (03-23-2017 09:57 PM)
Females with Aspergers Syndrome Checklist by Samantha Craft

https://everydayaspie.wordpress.com/2016...tha-craft/

Spends concentration time analyzing data and making useful lists like this !

Thanks.
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Alpha Omega
Friendship is Magic
User ID: 419000
07-17-2017 08:12 PM

Posts: 4,905



Post: #130
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
LoP Guest  Wrote: (07-17-2017 08:05 PM)
This is so spot on, I often go thru scenes in movies in my head when Im with someone, where theres small talk to come up with ideas on what to say when Im conversing. I also retrieve mental recollection of body language and hand gestures in my memory so I can try and pretend im nornal and Im so constantly rehearsing .

Im also envisioning the conversation in 3rd person and at all angles and then rewinding and doing the analyzing thing to try and solve a solution right then and there when all the other person wanted to do was vent or share.

Ill try your advice and see what happens.

I hope it will work for you, and I'm convinced it will - just hearing what really goes on in your head while you are trying to socialize it's pretty obvious your poor brain is totally overloaded with all the complex demands you are putting on it, and simply has no spare capacity for social cognition.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 397198
07-17-2017 08:12 PM

 



Post: #131
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
The mental processing in attempted normal conversation is exhausting. Just talking to the mailman or small talk with the store cashier leaves me feeling drained and a little dizzy.
And conversations with someone that goes on for 20 minute equates to an hour in a dark room relaxing afterwards and recharging cause all my limbs feel like noodles and Im in a weird tingly feeling from all the stress

In comparison the internet doesnt do that to me to that degree cause all the social cues and body language and eye contact and memorizing names and faces are left out so talking online is much easier.

I also have face recognition problem as well where I struggle to recognize my neighbor if we bumped into eachother in a crowd
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singing spider2
Kraut! und Rüben!
User ID: 423945
07-17-2017 08:13 PM

Posts: 1,180



Post: #132
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
Alpha Omega  Wrote: (07-17-2017 08:03 PM)
singing spider2  Wrote: (07-17-2017 07:55 PM)
you need a lot of brain and observational skills to produce stone tools
or to know where, when and what to hunt and gather

True. So add that to social processing as something the brain was originally evolved to do - observing nature and producing simple tools (even if the rate of innovation with these tools was practically zero).

But if you look into human tribes currently living on a stone age level you'll find they have one thing in common: they have very low mathematical-logical ability. It's common for them to lack the ability to even count to three!

Which is evidence doing logic is not the original job the brain was meant to do.

I guess the aspies did most of the technological innovations chuckle

my (aspie) son said the brain evolved to introduce nonsense and silliness
no animal or plant is able to be illogical and stupid
only humans can do this, because we have these huge brains
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 08:15 PM by singing spider2.) Quote this message in a reply
AtomIcarus
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User ID: 390729
07-17-2017 08:13 PM

Posts: 12,371



Post: #133
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
Yes, thank you, Alpha Omega. Very insightful.

Some people are so painfully good that they would rather be right than to be pleasant. --L. C. Ball
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 397198
07-17-2017 08:17 PM

 



Post: #134
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
Alpha Omega  Wrote: (07-17-2017 08:12 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (07-17-2017 08:05 PM)
This is so spot on, I often go thru scenes in movies in my head when Im with someone, where theres small talk to come up with ideas on what to say when Im conversing. I also retrieve mental recollection of body language and hand gestures in my memory so I can try and pretend im nornal and Im so constantly rehearsing .

Im also envisioning the conversation in 3rd person and at all angles and then rewinding and doing the analyzing thing to try and solve a solution right then and there when all the other person wanted to do was vent or share.

Ill try your advice and see what happens.

I hope it will work for you, and I'm convinced it will - just hearing what really goes on in your head while you are trying to socialize it's pretty obvious your poor brain is totally overloaded with all the complex demands you are putting on it, and simply has no spare capacity for social cognition.

You encouraged me a lot by saying that socialization is natural and easy and already embedded as an instinct in the brain, as easy as breathing. That its there all along waiting to be utitlized whereas I thought all along it was opposite, that it was something that had to be mastered and practiced and I thought all along I was dumb not being able to learn how
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269346
Registered User
User ID: 424716
07-18-2017 12:38 AM

Posts: 4,141



Post: #135
RE: Do you have Asperger's?
Thinking of AS as synonymous with illness is incorrect and no longer useful. There are people with it who have low intelligence. But it is not the result of autism. It is the result of "learning disability". For it's clear there are some with high intelligence just as there are those with low intelligenc, but that is the same with the general population, which we don't call all sick. AS is perhaps the only condition I'm aware of where great intellect flourishes. That could hardly be called an illness.

As for morals, there are moral as well as immoral people on the spectrum. But their apprehension of morality is very different. They are very honest, a bit direct, even to the point of detriment. I don't think you will find many thieves or petty criminals among them. Their thinking is reflective, they enjoy the security of their possessions so they are going to respect yours as well.

Trump is the First Estate, Second Estate, Third Estate, and Fourth Estate. In his hands lie the salvation of this nation.
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