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Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 420441
06-19-2017 01:13 PM

 



Post: #31
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
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LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 10:33 AM)
This building to my knowledge was Govt owned operated by another private entity.
And none of those entities will be held liable- because Govt is always right and blameless.


Untouchable

That's why the lawyer that took on the case in 2009, Sophie Khan says the survivors must demand a pubic inquest and not a public inquiry. She said that a public inquest gives the people more power, a public inquiry does not and legally they can't have both. A public inquiry is in the interest of the successive governments. A public inquest is in the interest of the people that are impacted by what happened.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 400405
06-19-2017 01:41 PM

 



Post: #32
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 10:49 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 10:27 AM)
No, they are not. Banned in the EU and the US, and now we found out also not allowed to be used in the UK.
The problem is they get away with it if nothing like this happens, why is why fire safety checkups should be done by the fire brigade again, instead of trusting that the owner or construction company can be trusted.

If they where banned in the EU then how where they manufactured and sold within the EU, maybe what you mean to say, is that they are banned from certain use.. which means their sale can not be blocked unless the EU bans them.

Ok so I will reframe the question is, can the UK ban a product the EU allows to be sold?

But you are right in the context that the Fire Brigade should be allowed to check, however given the push for austerity, not just in the UK but across the EU there simply is not the funds while everyone is in austerity mode for that kind of expense.

So that then brings into question Austerity, and not just in the UK, but across the EU.

From what I can gather on various sites they are also used for example in wall sandwiches behind more incombustible materials in rooms that need acoustic insulation, to build trade show booths etc. So the sale of them is not restricted. However, the use of them for cladding on buildings is, because of the fire risk.

So my blanket statement as to "banned" may not be correct, however, they are banned for specific usage, like how they were used in the Grenfell building. Similar in US law, where they are banned for use on tall buildings.

Still researching though...
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Hamburgerwagon
Proud Lunatic
User ID: 238494
06-19-2017 03:07 PM

Posts: 6,168



Post: #33
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
Death Toll up to 79
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 420649
06-19-2017 03:14 PM

 



Post: #34
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 01:13 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 10:33 AM)
This building to my knowledge was Govt owned operated by another private entity.
And none of those entities will be held liable- because Govt is always right and blameless.


Untouchable

That's why the lawyer that took on the case in 2009, Sophie Khan says the survivors must demand a pubic inquest and not a public inquiry. She said that a public inquest gives the people more power, a public inquiry does not and legally they can't have both. A public inquiry is in the interest of the successive governments. A public inquest is in the interest of the people that are impacted by what happened.

Management of the tower included building residents.

Just saying.

Most of this is Labour trying to score BS points and blame anything that goes against their ideology. Also to distract from the kind of people who are getting taxpayer subsidized housing in central London.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 420649
06-19-2017 03:19 PM

 



Post: #35
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 04:13 AM)
JhikpghfTissueLoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 01:36 AM)
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/VF4lt889_F0?t=22[/video

Hundreds are unaccounted for.

^^^^^^^^JhikpghfTissue

If they were to go strictly by benefits claims lists, the number is likely in the thousands.

Subletting or letting rellies stay while the "refugee" buggered off back home seemed to be the norm. Likely other scams going on too.

When I was young and broke I never stayed in these sorts of high rises. Too many bottom feeders (crack heads, ppl cooking using open flames, junk hoarders) who could cause this very sort of thing.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 420649
06-19-2017 03:21 PM

 



Post: #36
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 05:33 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 05:13 AM)

This video is very important to try to understand what really happened
A lot of things you can deduct on this video clearly....

Such as?

Also, Boris Johnson was ridiculed for getting fire equipment that may have helped douse this sooner and Khan sold them off.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 421598
06-19-2017 03:22 PM

 



Post: #37
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 01:41 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 10:49 AM)
If they where banned in the EU then how where they manufactured and sold within the EU, maybe what you mean to say, is that they are banned from certain use.. which means their sale can not be blocked unless the EU bans them.

Ok so I will reframe the question is, can the UK ban a product the EU allows to be sold?

But you are right in the context that the Fire Brigade should be allowed to check, however given the push for austerity, not just in the UK but across the EU there simply is not the funds while everyone is in austerity mode for that kind of expense.

So that then brings into question Austerity, and not just in the UK, but across the EU.

From what I can gather on various sites they are also used for example in wall sandwiches behind more incombustible materials in rooms that need acoustic insulation, to build trade show booths etc. So the sale of them is not restricted. However, the use of them for cladding on buildings is, because of the fire risk.

So my blanket statement as to "banned" may not be correct, however, they are banned for specific usage, like how they were used in the Grenfell building. Similar in US law, where they are banned for use on tall buildings.

Still researching though...

I know, very hard to get definitive details, however if you are researching might I suggest some construction industry take on the issue, given that it has repercussions for them in particular as installers..

Grenfell Tower blaze puts cladding systems in the dock
http://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/ne...n-the-dock

Extract
The refurbishment included recladding the building in panels of Arconic's Reynolux coated aluminium sheets with a Reynobond polyethylene (PE) core. Celotex supplied RS5000 insulation. Reynobond PE is not as fire retardant as the alternative Reynobond FR, which has a mineral core, but it is lighter and so easier to install.

Several engineers, architects and building surveyors came forward to the national media during the day of the fire to explain that even such cladding is meant to have fire retardant properties and was meant to be fixed to the building in such as a way as to prevent the rapid spread of smoke and fire from floor to floor. Passive fire protection was meant to offer much more resistance than was evident at Grenfell Tower; it was supposed to contain the fire. It did not work. This is what makes the incident so significant to the wider construction industry, and why a public enquiry will now follow.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 421598
06-19-2017 03:27 PM

 



Post: #38
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 03:14 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 01:13 PM)
That's why the lawyer that took on the case in 2009, Sophie Khan says the survivors must demand a pubic inquest and not a public inquiry. She said that a public inquest gives the people more power, a public inquiry does not and legally they can't have both. A public inquiry is in the interest of the successive governments. A public inquest is in the interest of the people that are impacted by what happened.

Management of the tower included building residents.

Just saying.

Most of this is Labour trying to score BS points and blame anything that goes against their ideology. Also to distract from the kind of people who are getting taxpayer subsidized housing in central London.

It is worth also mentioning that these organisations where created in 2000 by Labours Housing Green paper, at the time Labour did not feel the process of getting rid of Council properties was going fast enough..

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/dec/12/1

extract
In its first term Labour was keen to push ahead with housing transfers at a faster rate than was achieved under the Tories. But transfers are unpopular with councils who do not want to relinquish ownership of their homes. More importantly, they are also unpopular in inner city areas where most of the worst homes are concentrated.
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Fu King
Registered User
User ID: 189557
06-19-2017 05:41 PM

Posts: 7,573



Post: #39
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-18-2017 11:36 PM)
Quote:"There are wider regulatory offences but I think manslaughter is the most serious and that’s the one that needs to be looked at first. So a public inquiry allows things to happen more quickly and allows a broader range of questions and inquests come usually at the end of the exercise."
He added that all political parties "need to ask serious questions about why recommendations in the past have not been implemented."

It came as Philip Hammond said the criminal investigation would examine whether building regulations had been breached when the block was overhauled.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/...ell-tower/

The cladding they used on the outside of the building is banned in the uk:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pol...95696.html

What are the owners names.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 397261
06-19-2017 06:26 PM

 



Post: #40
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 03:14 PM)
...Most of this is Labour trying to score BS points and blame anything that goes against their ideology...

The Labour party under Tony Blair was basically Tory-Lite and incidents like Grenfell Tower reveal the gross stupidity of running public services like a profit making business. The Labour Party under Corbyn is gaining ground now BECAUSE they are so different to Blair's Labour party or the nasty Tories.

LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 03:14 PM)
...to distract from the kind of people who are getting taxpayer subsidized housing in central London.

Do you mean people like the Queen?
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 421598
06-19-2017 07:28 PM

 



Post: #41
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 06:26 PM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-19-2017 03:14 PM)
...Most of this is Labour trying to score BS points and blame anything that goes against their ideology...

The Labour party under Tony Blair was basically Tory-Lite and incidents like Grenfell Tower reveal the gross stupidity of running public services like a profit making business. The Labour Party under Corbyn is gaining ground now BECAUSE they are so different to Blair's Labour party or the nasty Tories.

While I welcome the change from what was, Blair, Cameron Clegg represent the kind of politics where you can not put a rizla between the parties, Labour is still that Labour at it's core as is Mays conservatives..

only a few weeks ago the most of Labour MPs where scrubbing Corbyns name from their election campaigns..

the real change you speak of will only come about when we are out of the EU and Labour and the Tories can be themselves and not get caught up in job progression through the EU to be el President..

But Labour where still intent of getting rid of as many council homes as possible through these ALMOs, they still created RIPA which May wants to use to curtail the internet.. indeed Labour wanted us all to have IDs to make it easy on the police for stop and search..

So, there is no separation of nasty and I think that is why the British electorate has given no one any form of real mandate to do anything flavoured with any particular party preference.

And if this sits on political shoulders, it's all the parties..
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loNeNLI
lop guest
User ID: 266585
06-19-2017 07:33 PM

 



Post: #42
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-18-2017 11:36 PM)
Quote:"There are wider regulatory offences but I think manslaughter is the most serious and that’s the one that needs to be looked at first. So a public inquiry allows things to happen more quickly and allows a broader range of questions and inquests come usually at the end of the exercise."
He added that all political parties "need to ask serious questions about why recommendations in the past have not been implemented."

It came as Philip Hammond said the criminal investigation would examine whether building regulations had been breached when the block was overhauled.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/...ell-tower/

The cladding they used on the outside of the building is banned in the uk:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pol...95696.html

fk to do with 'cladding'.

Canaan knew it was inflammable -
and devised his Ritual upon it.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 397242
06-19-2017 09:50 PM

 



Post: #43
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
It's time to charge the mudslime mayor with manslaughter, by the each. It should really be murder, but that's harder to prove.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 419063
06-20-2017 01:15 AM

 



Post: #44
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
Always follow the money. Fingers in pies and all that.

Like everything it will be whitewashed and called sorted.
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Jess
Registered User
User ID: 418577
06-20-2017 01:22 AM

Posts: 3,588



Post: #45
RE: Grenfell fire: manslaughter chargers being considered!
There are corporations like walmart that take out life insurance policies on their employees, including after they quit. When they die, they get the policy, and the family not only gets nothing, they are not even told about it.

Follow the money. See if the residents of the owners of that building have similar policies to the kind for employees like that I just described.

To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture. Enjoy, sir, your insensibility of feeling and reflecting. It is the prerogative of animals. Thomas Paine: American Crisis
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