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The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 414894
11-03-2017 11:17 PM

 



Post: #46
teach RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
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Angry Eurasian
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User ID: 435482
11-03-2017 11:20 PM

 



Post: #47
wall RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
Yay! Poor people are going to lose their jobs! So progressive!
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 431446
11-03-2017 11:21 PM

 



Post: #48
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (10-17-2017 04:14 PM)
link to image: https://d.justpo.st/media/images/2014/11...3cac95.jpg

Yeah, I don't know why they argue with you...I gave up long ago.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 435634
11-03-2017 11:31 PM

 



Post: #49
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
A popular cliche with coalheads is "well the sun doesn't always shine and the wind..."

So what are the backup costs of Solar and Wind in a mixed generating environment? Here are two studies, one from Belgium and one from the UK. The backup costs are estimated to be $3 ~ $9 and $-4 ~ $8 respectively although these costs drop if wide scale storage is deployed. Storage can actually make renewables integration a source of profit " In a scenario with 8GW of batteries on the system by 2030, we find the overall indeterminacy cost would in fact become negative, falling to around £-3.7/MWh. This effectively means that the indeterminacy of solar provides a net benefit through enabling the entry of batteries."

http://www.creg.info/pdf/ARCC/161019-KULeuven.pdf
http://www.solar-trade.org.uk/wp-content...r-2016.pdf

Adding backup costs of $9/MWh to Lazards LCOE for Solar PV and wind gives price ranges of

PV $55 - $70 /MWh
Wind $41 - $71 /MWh
Coal $60 - $143

https://www.lazard.com/media/438038/leve...y-v100.pdf

Of course Lazard's LCOE figures are averages for last year. This year Saudi Arabia was given an astonishing bid of just $18 /MWh for a new solar power station!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...in-auction
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 435634
11-03-2017 11:42 PM

 



Post: #50
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
Angry Eurasian  Wrote: (11-03-2017 11:20 PM)
Yay! Poor people are going to lose their jobs! So progressive!

Well that's never a good thing but there are only 54,000 people employed in coal mining and their jobs are going mostly as a result of the switch from deep mining to strip mining. https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall...56be979f69

But in better news, solar power added 51,000 jobs last year alone. So solar added nearly as many new jobs in one year as there are people employed in coal mining altogether. It now employs 260,000 ( or maybe 374,000 ) Americans.

http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/us-solar-jobs-2016/
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Natura Naturans
Registered User
User ID: 415819
11-04-2017 12:23 AM

Posts: 10,456



Post: #51
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
LoP Guest  Wrote: (11-03-2017 10:31 PM)
Natura Naturans  Wrote: (11-03-2017 09:48 PM)
The AC has no clue as usual, coal prices are up 30% even in Australia. Too bad Australians can't take advantage of the coal boom, they ship it all to Asia so THEY can have cheap electricity. Even with the price rise coal is still the cheapest fuel around.

Lmao

I'm afraid you have missed the boat on that red herring. Renewables are the cheapest source of power in most markets now and will be, everywhere, by 2020 according to investment bank Morgan Stanley. https://www.morganstanley.com/ideas/sola...-utilities
Read it and weep, the cost analysis from Lazard, the leading asset management firm. Coal simply can't compete with renewables anymore.
https://www.lazard.com/media/438038/leve...y-v100.pdf

Natura Naturans  Wrote: (11-03-2017 09:48 PM)
"Some have the mistaken notion that coal use for electricity production is going away.
Funny you say that, well it is...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...ner-energy
http://e360.yale.edu/digest/world-coal-p...op-in-2016

Natura Naturans  Wrote: (11-03-2017 09:48 PM)
is putting in massive numbers of coal fired power plants because it is still the cheapest form of energy out there.
No ( more on Asia later ) and No again, see Lazard LCOE 10 above.

Natura Naturans  Wrote: (11-03-2017 09:48 PM)
Although hyped by the leftist industrial complex wind and solar are being dumped because they are expensive and only operate when the Sun shines and the wind blows.
Dumped? The majority of new generating capacity added in 2016 was renewables at 153 GW with only 54 GW of new coal capacity added. http://fs-unep-centre.org/publications/g...tment-2017 As for expensive, have another look at Lazard LCOE 10, and have another little cry.

Natura Naturans  Wrote: (11-03-2017 09:48 PM)
"Coal prices are on the rise again. With benchmark rates in Australia up over 30 percent since July — approaching the $100/t mark that prevailed in November 2016 after a massive run-up last year.

And a number of events the past week show that things could get even more heated in coal over the coming months.

The biggest story recently has been China. Where a push to restrict coal imports has driven local prices to multi-year highs. With data this week from Platts showing that 102 coal-laden boats are currently anchored offshore of Chinese ports, unable to deliver their loads.
So 102 ships full of coal with nowhere to deliver them to is a big win for you? I wouldn't like to be on any sports team with you.

Natura Naturans  Wrote: (11-03-2017 09:48 PM)
That drop in imports has left local user hoarding supplies — with coal stockpiles held by China’s six largest power generators reportedly jumping nearly 16 percent in the past week, to 11.09 million tonnes.
ditto for growing stockpiles of unburnt coal.

You are an idiot to believe the leftist industrial complex. The price of coal going up 30% is the best evidence it is being used. Germany, Australia, all the countries that have tried lots of renewables are backing off, cutting subsidies which kills renewables. If they were so cheap why do they need subsidies? What a laugh, you have swallowed the communist leftist global warming fraud.

“The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.” --Baruch Spinoza
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1110.00
Manifest Alchemy
User ID: 198896
11-04-2017 12:37 AM

Posts: 15,933



Post: #52
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
That's Israel's coal. They will drop by and claim it when they come to build the new colosseum, er ... wall.

"The Precipitant has a smaller place in reality, thus it is mortal."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMCQrAxylM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0619bdpOolA
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LoP Guest
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User ID: 431973
11-04-2017 12:49 AM

 



Post: #53
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
Coal lost, but carbon will have it's revenge.
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LoP Guest
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User ID: 435634
11-04-2017 01:08 AM

 



Post: #54
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
Natura Naturans  Wrote: (11-04-2017 12:23 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (11-03-2017 10:31 PM)
Lmao

I'm afraid you have missed the boat on that red herring. Renewables are the cheapest source of power in most markets now and will be, everywhere, by 2020 according to investment bank Morgan Stanley. https://www.morganstanley.com/ideas/sola...-utilities
Read it and weep, the cost analysis from Lazard, the leading asset management firm. Coal simply can't compete with renewables anymore.
https://www.lazard.com/media/438038/leve...y-v100.pdf

Funny you say that, well it is...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...ner-energy
http://e360.yale.edu/digest/world-coal-p...op-in-2016

No ( more on Asia later ) and No again, see Lazard LCOE 10 above.

Dumped? The majority of new generating capacity added in 2016 was renewables at 153 GW with only 54 GW of new coal capacity added. http://fs-unep-centre.org/publications/g...tment-2017 As for expensive, have another look at Lazard LCOE 10, and have another little cry.

So 102 ships full of coal with nowhere to deliver them to is a big win for you? I wouldn't like to be on any sports team with you.

ditto for growing stockpiles of unburnt coal.

You are an idiot to believe the leftist industrial complex. The price of coal going up 30% is the best evidence it is being used. Germany, Australia, all the countries that have tried lots of renewables are backing off, cutting subsidies which kills renewables. If they were so cheap why do they need subsidies? What a laugh, you have swallowed the communist leftist global warming fraud.

Hopeless, you haven't even looked at Lazard's LCOE. You have swallowed the coal industry's kool-aid. How out of touch with reality do you need to be to call Morgan Stanley, Lazard, Reuters, Bloomberg and Fortune the "leftist industrial complex" ???
Subsidies are finished nearly everywhere and new capacity is breaking all the records, adding three times as much capacity last year as coal. The reason subsidies are gone is because renewables are the cheapest source of new capacity. Is Morgan Stanley a "communist leftist fraud" or one of the world's top investment banks? Oh well, not that you will ever learn but here you go again, according to Morgan Stanley.

“Numerous key markets recently reached an inflection point where renewables have become the cheapest form of new power generation,” the bank said in a note.

“A dynamic we see spreading to nearly every country we cover by 2020. The price of solar panels has fallen 50% in less than two years (2016-17).”


http://uk.businessinsider.com/solar-powe...ley-2017-7

As for the traded price of coal, it reflects the balance between supply and demand, not only demand. Falling demand with even faster falling supply will drive the price higher, conversely increasing demand with even faster increasing supply will drive the price down. You will have to wait for end of year production figures to see how much coal was used and much of that will depend on the severity of the northern hemisphere winter but we do know what has happened up to 2017. Every year since 2014 coal production has fallen dramatically with the biggest fall coming last year, down 6.2% - 231 million tonnes oil equivalent. Down 350 Mtoe since 2014, they are facts, something that you seem frightened of, no doubt you will claim BP is part of the communist, leftist conspiracy that only Nut'u'r knows about.
https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/en/cor...report.pdf

You strike me as a little boy, desperate to deny the reality of the present energy market, totally out of your depth, clinging to whatever scraps you can find, a blip in coal prices, a modest increase in SE Asian capacity over many years etc. I would love to know what motivates you, why you divorce yourself from the reality and hard facts that these banks, financial information companies and energy companies are reporting. Just why are you so desperate to believe coal is going to go on forever?
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 435296
11-04-2017 01:20 AM

 



Post: #55
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
I can't believe this is still an issue. Coal supporters need a one-way time travel ticket to London during the Industrial Revolution. Or just ship them off to China. Yuck. America isn't going back to dirtying its environment, thank you very much.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T9neWyZdF8M
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 435296
11-04-2017 01:27 AM

 



Post: #56
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
It always bewilders me how much some Americans choose profit over wrecking their country. It's like letting Walmart ride all local business out of town just because it's cheaper. It's ironic because those places where Walmart thrives has this macho American pride....same as coal country....like trashing this country to save money....blecchh.
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
Vocem sine nomine audivit!
User ID: 350320
11-04-2017 01:58 AM

Posts: 35,522



Post: #57
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
LoP Guest  Wrote: (11-04-2017 01:08 AM)
You have swallowed the coal industry's kool-aid. How out of touch with reality do you need to be to call Morgan Stanley, Lazard, Reuters, Bloomberg and Fortune the "leftist industrial complex" ???

Subsidies are finished nearly everywhere and new capacity is breaking all the records, adding three times as much capacity last year as coal. The reason subsidies are gone is because renewables are the cheapest source of new capacity. Is Morgan Stanley a "communist leftist fraud" or one of the world's top investment banks? Oh well, not that you will ever learn but here you go again, according to Morgan Stanley.

~

You strike me as a little boy, desperate to deny the reality of the present energy market, totally out of your depth, clinging to whatever scraps you can find, a blip in coal prices, a modest increase in SE Asian capacity over many years etc. I would love to know what motivates you, why you divorce yourself from the reality and hard facts that these banks, financial information companies and energy companies are reporting. Just why are you so desperate to believe coal is going to go on forever?

nice.. all of us opposed to Trump and Cleeeeen Coal or dare publish factual information about climate are communists didn't you know?

They have to whip up the knuckle-dragging hand-wringing clingers into a drooling frenzy of hate... no emotionally charged repetitive ad hom will be spared.

Socialists , leftists , paedophiles.. you name it, you are it.

Heartflowers

[Image: ugKHqGP.jpg]
©®℮å†E
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Natura Naturans
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User ID: 415819
11-04-2017 02:10 AM

Posts: 10,456



Post: #58
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ  Wrote: (11-04-2017 01:58 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (11-04-2017 01:08 AM)
You have swallowed the coal industry's kool-aid. How out of touch with reality do you need to be to call Morgan Stanley, Lazard, Reuters, Bloomberg and Fortune the "leftist industrial complex" ???

Subsidies are finished nearly everywhere and new capacity is breaking all the records, adding three times as much capacity last year as coal. The reason subsidies are gone is because renewables are the cheapest source of new capacity. Is Morgan Stanley a "communist leftist fraud" or one of the world's top investment banks? Oh well, not that you will ever learn but here you go again, according to Morgan Stanley.

~

You strike me as a little boy, desperate to deny the reality of the present energy market, totally out of your depth, clinging to whatever scraps you can find, a blip in coal prices, a modest increase in SE Asian capacity over many years etc. I would love to know what motivates you, why you divorce yourself from the reality and hard facts that these banks, financial information companies and energy companies are reporting. Just why are you so desperate to believe coal is going to go on forever?

nice.. all of us opposed to Trump and Cleeeeen Coal or dare publish factual information about climate are communists didn't you know?

They have to whip up the knuckle-dragging hand-wringing clingers into a drooling frenzy of hate... no emotionally charged repetitive ad hom will be spared.

Socialists , leftists , paedophiles.. you name it, you are it.

Heartflowers

The AC is from Australia which is a poster child for the failure of renewables. South Australia has plentiful coal, but they have been putting in expensive wind and solar and the electric price HAS DOUBLED. So much for cheap wind and solar. This has sparked a national crisis where the Prime Minister has had to promise to bring down prices BY BUILDING MORE COAL PLANTS!

http://joannenova.com.au/2017/11/some-da...australia/

http://joannenova.com.au/2017/10/politic...city-grid/

http://joannenova.com.au/2017/10/german-...idies-end/

http://joannenova.com.au/2017/10/finally...uce-costs/

“The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.” --Baruch Spinoza
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spɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
Vocem sine nomine audivit!
User ID: 350320
11-04-2017 02:17 AM

Posts: 35,522



Post: #59
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
Natura Naturans  Wrote: (11-04-2017 02:10 AM)
http://joannenova.com.au/2017/11/some-da...australia/

http://joannenova.com.au/2017/10/politic...city-grid/

http://joannenova.com.au/2017/10/german-...idies-end/

http://joannenova.com.au/2017/10/finally...uce-costs/

chuckle
you just can't get enough of this can you?

Quote:Joanne Nova aka JoNova (real name Joanne Codling), born circa 1967, is an Australian right wing communicator who mainly writes to promote anti-science views of climate in books and a denialist weblog, joannenova.com.au. She has no evident academic background in climate science; her degree (B.Sc.) is in molecular biology.[1] Nova is based in Perth, Western Australia.

Nova runs the Australian company Science Speak,[2] the main aim of which is to promote AGW denialism.
For four years, Nova worked for the Shell Questacon Science Circus, based in Canberra, Australia. The Science Circus is an outreach program run by Questacon, the Australian National Science and Technology Centre. The program is sponsored by Shell Oil, with additional support from Australian National University. She has also worked for Foxtel, a cable television company part owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Joanne_Nova

source watch is communist propaganda blah blah blah..

trouble is.. they provide links to everything .
those pesky communists trying peddle disinformation and providing links to their sources that back their information up with solid facts.

Popcorn
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Damrod
Seeker of knowledge
User ID: 381033
11-04-2017 02:19 AM

Posts: 12,967



Post: #60
RE: The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
no

it didn't....

stupid shined though

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

"Liberty means responsibility, which is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw

"Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotism"...Aristotle
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